Those of us that started skiing on straight skis know it was the only way to really be able to turn them. But given modern shapes why does it continue to be a big deal?
By no means saying that weighting should be equal but what is so wrong with 2 footed skiing?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Is there anything wrong with 2 footed skiing?
The instruction I've had in recent years has definitely been steering me towards just that.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
admin wrote:
Is there anything wrong with 2 footed skiing?
The instruction I've had in recent years has definitely been steering me towards just that.
No.
I don't think anyone is advocating one footed skiing - despite the number of one legged drills recommended on here, both downhill and uphill ski.
What I and others have been advocating is two footed pivotting / steering and / or carving of both skis, with more balance on the downhil ski as the turn progesses towards completion.
But if it's physics why don't people get int intuitively/ or lessons need to focus on it?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Dave of the Marmottes, I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg situation - at low speeds, new skiers often like the stability they feel from standing on both skis, but it's harder to start skiing faster unless you are used to the idea of getting more weight on your outside ski
I do think "2 footed skiing" is one of those terms which don't really mean a lot without some extra explanation. even when I am skiing with most of my weight on the outside ski, it's not like I totally disregard what is happening to the inside ski
After all it is free
After all it is free
Fear of commitment.
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..... If most don't use the uphill ski for anything but a bit of balancing reassurance, maybe manufacturers could save money and only put on two "inside" edges and stamp the skis with an L and R, for safety reasons....
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Scarpa wrote:
Fear of commitment.
+1
Evolution has conditioned us to get small and shy away from perceived threats.
For most this results in leaning into the mountain / slope with more balance and weight on the uphill ski than is needed, coupled with a low vertical height on skis and the arms and poles tucked close to the torso like a T-Rex.
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2 footed skiing is perfectly fine at relatively low speeds, as you get up to higher speeds you tend to get the body closer to the slope in this position you are more stable with the weighting to the outside ski, weighting the inside ski tends to force it out upsetting the balance
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Don't you need to be able to ski outside ski dominant and more equally balanced across both skis as and when conditions demand? GS turns on a firm piste I'm very outside foot dominant. Ski in untracked snow I'm much more two-footed. Bumps and short radius turns somewhere in between those two extremes. One foot drills of various kinds develop and test your lateral balance, giving you a bit more control about where you lateral balance point is.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Too much navel gazing. It's just a fact of skiing, you gotta believe in your lower leg. Shooting, you close the eye which isn't looking down the sights. Golf you start your swing with more weight on the rear leg and then you transfer it as the swing goes through. Those learning the sport need some rules . All this freedom of thought is nonsense. When you can really do it well you can write your own rules and take the consequences if it doesn't work. Sure you can turn on the top edge of the upper leg but I don't see it taking the sport by storm !!.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Why ? because we are creatures of habit with a body shape that is designed to take weight on one foot/leg then the other.
Try going to the end of your garden just jumping two legged then walk back which feels the most relaxed and less strenuous ? It feels more natural and comfortable your mind and body are attuned to using one leg at a time to move forward and to turn ie to turn right you increase stride length on your left foot and either decrees length on right foot or twist on the ball of the foot.
so your answer is because of the human body we are not the same as Skippy the Kangaroo.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
One suggestion is that it's often emphasized because so many skiers have a lot of weight on their inside ski and lean in - so whilst the racers can carve on the "wrong" ski and it's an interesting exercise to ski on one leg for several turns, there is, for many of us, a stage when learning to stand on the outside ski puts right a great many problems. The extreme difficulty that some people have in picking up that inside ski is testimony to the need to do it!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's simple that way you don't fall over as much.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
It's simple that way you don't fall over as much.
I know that whenever I'm having a hard time - bad vis, bad snow, skiing like an idiot, etc etc I concentrate on getting the weight early onto that ski AND on bending my ankles. It usually works. Until I forget.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Farley Goode,
Quote:
Shooting, you close the eye which isn't looking down the sights
mmm yes and maybe but only on certain types of shooting, its a little like skiing, sometimes shooting you keep both eyes open, and skiing sometimes you weight one leg lots more than the other and other times you are pretty much 50/50
Other wise just like when your shooting with one eye shut, some little bu##er creeps up on you on your blind side and shoots you in the head
Why ? because we are creatures of habit with a body shape that is designed to take weight on one foot/leg then the other.
Try going to the end of your garden just jumping two legged then walk back which feels the most relaxed and less strenuous ? It feels more natural and comfortable your mind and body are attuned to using one leg at a time to move forward and to turn ie to turn right you increase stride length on your left foot and either decrees length on right foot or twist on the ball of the foot.
Are you still talking about walking in the garden?
When most people walk, if they want to go right they put their right foot to the right.
And that's why it's difficult to change that habitual process when you ski.
Quote:
so your answer is because of the human body we are not the same as Skippy the Kangaroo.
And given the right terrain, snow and gravity two footed kangarooing is the answer
The primary reason to balance over your outside ski because it is in a better biomechanical position to manage the forces that build up through a turn. It is easier to imagine if you use an extreme example, like the angles ted ligety gets when skiing gs. To create such big angles his inside leg flexes as his outside leg extends. His fully extended outside leg will be much better at resisting/managing the forces of the turn than his bent inside leg, it is that simple.
Commitment to the outside ski in a carved turn is basic physics/geometry:
a) the ski bends in a carved turn. With a given body weight you can bend one ski more than two skis. So turning happens faster if you load one ski.
b) assuming loading one ski, your centre of mass has to be approximately over a line coming perpendicularly up from the top of the ski (i.e. up through your boot). If you loaded the inside ski, you would have to get your body lower in the turn to achieve the same edge angle. Even with 50/50 loading you have to go lower. If you have to go lower it will take you more time and energy to move your body to the opposite side for the next turn.
c) as already pointed out a relatively straight leg gives a strong position to resist the forces of the turn. If you are balannced against the outside ski (with a straight leg) you can have your inside ski on the snow where it can perform a useful function, for example helping to balance. If you balance against your inside leg (with it straight) your outside leg will be in the air!
In practice 100% loading of the outside ski is not optimal in many conditions. For example if the snow is soft aggressive loading of the outside ski will exceed the loading the snow can take and you will blow out. And in many skiing situations a purely carved turn isn't optimal either and some of the arguments above are not applicable.
M
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
So as I said, you don't fall over so much....
After all it is free
After all it is free
Lets talk about steering and engaging a turn with the inner ski
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Interestingly, on a ski course with Phil Smith in 2000, not long after carving skis came out, he told us he'd experimented with the "modern" technique of equal weighting and moving the body weight over the skis to swap edging ski with old skool straight skis and it worked just fine......
"It would appear we (instructors) have been forcing you to struggle with angulation and downhill ski weighting for the last 40 years"........
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Modern skis have meant there is more role for the inside ski and less need for all-out 100% on the downhill ski (the shape of the means there is less need to bend it). But for performance skiing on hard snow a 50/50 equal loading is far from optimal, for the reason I describe above. The geometry of the human body hasn't changed even if skis are another shape.
M
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
[quote="hyperkub"]Modern skis have meant there is more role for the inside ski and less need for all-out 100% on the downhill ski (the shape of the means there is less need to bend it).[/quote]
I do hope you know this is completely wrong. Only way modern skis really go into turn (at least on hard snow) is to bend them. And to bend them, you need pressure. Sure 100% on outside ski is not necessary, but something like 80/20 is still norm (once again, talking for hard snow). Anyone who thinks he can make carving turn without bending skis, should really see video of himself skidding (not carving) down the slope
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So basically you are saying what I'm saying. I said 100% is too much and that 50/50 is too little. 80/20 seems pretty much in the middle.....
To be more specific a carving ski need less pressure to initiate a turn. Again it's simple physics. As you tip the ski, more pressure is applied on the tip and tail (because the tip and tail are wider they engage first). This gives more leverage than if the load is equally distributed along the ski. If you stand on a plank which is lying on a solid floor, it doesn't bend at all. But if you put something under each end, it will.
M
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So basically you are saying what I'm saying. I said 100% is too much and that 50/50 is too little. 80/20 seems pretty much in the middle.....
To be more specific a carving ski need less pressure to initiate a turn. Again it's simple physics. As you tip the ski, more pressure is applied on the tip and tail (because the tip and tail are wider they engage first). This gives more leverage than if the load is equally distributed along the ski. If you stand on a plank which is lying on a solid floor, it doesn't bend at all. But if you put something under each end, it will.
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