How do I stop steering with my Shoulders?

A snowHead

Im a novice skier. One week on a proper mountain and plenty of hours at the Tamworth Snowdome. I can ski parallel after a fashion but I have one major problem (lots of other problems as well but one thing at a time!). This problem was highlighted to me during a private lesson and no matter what I did I couldnt seem to feel what was "right" or correct what I was doing. Let me explain, I turn by twisting my upper body. Steer with my shoulders as it was described to me. I cant really think how to describe it better but Im sure those in the know will understand what Im doing. Are there any exercises / drills or advice I anyone could offer to stop me doing this?

cheers in advance Very Happy

A snowHead

Cobra.., that's REALLY common! One or more snowHead

instructors will give you much better advice that I could, pretty soon I expect!

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Cobra.., I agree with laundryman: you are doing fine.
If you can ski parallel after a fashion after just one week on a proper mountain that is good progress.
It took me at least another week
And learning to stop dragging myself round the corners took years!
You just gotta keep at it. Relax. It will come when you least expect it.

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Cobra.., Easiski has some exercises you can do for this, and they really work. However, when you have to do them skiing on one leg.......................... rolling eyes

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

I hope it doesnt take me years to stop dragging myself around corners!
I know that relaxing will help. The problem is that its difficult to relax when you know youve got this fundamental flaw in your technique

Maybe Im being too keen. I have discovered skiing at the tender age of 40 and I want to get as good as I can get before my body packs in. (Some would say that isnt too far away by looking at me!)

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I appreciate that and lessons is something that I will be doing. I dont have limitless resources however (wife and 3 daughters takes care of that!) so I wanted to know if there were any exercises / drills that I could do myself to practise on my own.

After all it is free

Cobra.., some non-expert suggestions -
one exercise which lots of ski instructors use, is to hold both your poles in your two hands and hold them up in front of your, shoulder height, pointing across the hill. Then ski down "under" the poles, so that the poles stay in the same position and your body rotates under them. It's not the greatest exercise, and can make you a big rigid, but it does help give you that feeling - as does doing the old fashioned "Twist" (a la Chubby Checker, someone you are probably too young to remember!!!) in front of a mirror. You need to twist your pelvis and shoulders in opposition a bit. If you watch the really extreme mogul skiers in action you will see the ultimate - their shoulders come straight down the hill and their legs twist very rapidly underneath them. One thing about any exercise is that you always feel you are doing much more than you really are - you need to exagerate.

Another one - much used by easiski, one of the snowHead

favourite instructors, and very useful, is to make sure that your inside arm goes round the corner first. So as you ski across with the hill going down on your left, ready to turn left, make sure it's that left arm which goes round the corner first. If you are swinging your shoulders you'll tend to have te outside hand coming round instead. Try it on the carpet.

I also personally think that going without poles is a very good idea - helps make you a bit more relaxed. And if you are skiing on skis any higher than your nose, get shorter ones.

There are some good DVDs around, too. Warren Smith, for example. There are a number of internet based guides, too - google them. "Visualise" the correct movements, before you go to sleep. Better than counting sheep.

Cobra.., allow me to notice that, before you get rid of the one tool you have, you have to find a new one to replace it.

How is your edging? Can you side step up a reasonably steep slope?

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Cobra, another one to try is to ski with your hands out front, pretending to hold a tray of full champagne glasses without spilling a drop. It should keep your upper body quiet while your legs do the work (on which score, comprex has a valid point).

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http://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/program.htm

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Actually just in case parlor tells me off, other ski academies are available

Cobra.., the reason why you're not getting any direct feedback in the form of "you need to do this" is because there is one instructor on here (prob amongst others) who gets really exasperated and kinda explodes from time to time when drills are prescribed, in his words, "by armchair experts" wink

- blind - ie: - without having seen you ski!

You've described the symptom, turning with your upper body. There's a whole host of root causes for that symptom, and is best treated by an instructor who has seen you ski! - Why not come along to the "Docsquid Bday Bash" in October at Tamworth (thread in snowEvents) - and I'm sure you'll get the help you want then!

Now, I'd better bug off quick before that instructor realises that I've given you an answer...... wink

You know it makes sense.

Face the valleeeeeeeeey. i.e. look ahead down the mountain.

Oh- and don't stick your arms out in front of you. Have them out to the side (equal both sides) - almost like you're hugging a huge ball.

If you can take on board pole planting then that really helps you initiate your turns.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Cobra.., I'm 45 and have been skiing 4/5 years, so I know where you're coming from. I don't think it does any harm to ask for tips. I was so determined to learn to ski as fast as possible. I found that to make a turn I used to go through a drill in my head - the order of the turn - and I did this until I didn't have to anymore. Then I started to relax! You will find that you will pick up snippets of things from each instructor you learn from , that work for you. The (by far) best instruction I have had (I've skied 13 weeks) is in Austria - particularly in the Arlberg. Ski school is 4 hours a day. I have done lots of weeks of ski school and lots of private lessons. In ski school, try and be the guy behind the instructor. (This works for a while, because they try and make sure everyone has a turn behind the instructor). I think in Austria, they take the approach of 'You will learn to ski' - perhaps doesn't suit everyone, but it suited me.

A snowHead

Cobra.., One way to see the negative effect of turning with the shoulders is by trying it sitting on a swivel chair. As you turn your shoulders one way, your lower body rotates in the opposite direction. It is the laws of physics. So doing this on snow would mean that your skis are actually being forced into the opposite direction to where you want them to go.

The answer lies in initiating the turn with your ... [and there I best stop as up to now I sound reasonably intelligent, but continuing further would reveal my true ignorance Embarassed

]

A snowHead

Drop the poles and try skiing with hands on knees may help but like Veeeight says you really need an instructor to have a look and see what you are doing.... and what you need to do to fix that....

Also you may want to try standing still with boots off and drawing "bowties" with your boots (ie even sized V's front and back) by twisting your leg...(1 leg at time and use the light foot when standing firmly balanced over the other).... This will remind you how to steer with your feet(pivot from under centre of foot rather than from the back or front of the foot/ski)

If you want to try the hands on knees try a very easy slope that is not busy as you are going to lose the thing you use to turn at the moment. Also remember you do not have to turn "fast" or "hard" to control your speed.... just turn "completely" (aka finish your turns).... Think of the turn shape you want to ski right now as being like a jigsaw puzzle piece where it connects to the next piece... You need to ski up the hill until you really slow down so you can be happy taking time when facing down hill(where you pick up speed). This will let your turn be really ROUND rather than a zig zag sort of shape. (which is very very common)... Once you get better at this you will be able to control your absolute "travel down hill" speed by changing how much uphill you finish those turns...

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Cobra.., veeeight, is absolutely right in that there might be lots of reasons why you do this, and it's very difficult to correct without having seen you ski. However I stand by what I know works in the case of shoulder rotation (the name for what you do): As Pam W says - make the inside hand,arm and shoulder go round the corner first. This will correct most of the rotation, and free up your legs and feet so they can work. Having said that, if you do the opposite it will feel horrible to start with, and you may be convinced that it isn't the answer. Keep doing it until it feels less horrible, and then keep doing it until it feels natural. If you manage that before your next skiing holiday your instructor should have more to work with .... Very Happy

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Cobra.., my other suggestion is that you try to get some lessons with easiski, who is great at spotting our key faults and providing very simple but effective drills for correcting them. The longer you spend doing it wrong, the longer it takes to get it right. That point about a swivel chair is great - sometimes simple ideas are the best. If you sit on a swivel chair and swivel it to and fro quickly, you'll get the idea! Those of us who are sometimes dismissed as "armchair experts" aren't ski instructors, but we have spent a lot of time being given helpful, or less helpful, instruction and if we think about it intelligently, we might sometimes be able to help despite lack of qualification. That's what an internet forum is about, after all!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

thanks for the info guys and gals. I will definately try some of those ideas out on my next outing. Very Happy

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Cobra..,

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I was looking forward to trying that the most!

After all it is free

Cobra.., comprex made a good suggestion here. If you drop the shoulder action, you're going to have to employ another means of turning your skis. The replacement mechanism I'd suggest is called steering, and it's accomplished via the power of your legs and hips.

Want to experience what it feels like, right there in your house?

- Stand up. Carpet is best. Have feet about hip width apart, and equal amount of weight on each foot. Hold hands up in front of you as if holding your poles.

- Now,,, roll your ankles till you are standing on the left sides of your feet,,,, then sloooooooowly twist both feet (using just the muscles of your legs and hips) to the left. As you do this your upper body should passively follow along with the twisting of your feet,,, always continuing to face the direction the feet point as they turn.

- When you've turned about 90 degrees, roll back down off the left sides of your feet, so you're again standing flat. Now roll up on the right sides of your feet, and turn in the same manner back the other way 180 degrees. Remember, body and feet change direction in harmony, and the turn is done very slooooowly and controlled.

Again, this is called steering, and it works just as well on snow. Actually, it works better on snow, because the slippery nature of snow allows the feet to be kept side by side as you twist them (you probably noticed that as you did it on the carpet the feet become one forward/one back as you twist them). The harder you twist your feet with your legs and hips, the faster you will turn.

A couple things to be conscious of:

- The harder you twist your feet with your legs/hips, the faster you will steer (turn). This is your control mechanism. You govern the shape of your turn via this. You can even make adjustments during the course of a single turn. Example; you could start your turn very gently, changing direction very slowly, then halfway through the turn bear down and sharpen your turn,,, or vice versa, depending on your desire or need. Gives you many options.

- Works best to have some weight on both feet, as one foot levers against the other to produce the twist/turn. Test it and see. Try the carpet exercise I explained while lifting one foot. Doesn't work very well.

Another tip I found in Viz magazine's "readers tips" one time - take your skis off your feet and put them on your shoulders. Set off down the slope and turn your skis this way then that way. How does it feel? Take the lift back up but this time put your skis back on your feet before setting off, and use your feet (legs) to turn them. Notice any difference?

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Cobra.., Head up look further ahead, try building up good spped on an open piste and then stopping hard. Repeat left to right, adding a little more speed as comfotable. Everything will start to flow under you given time, patience and practice.

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...or on the other hand you can go back to basics..

Help!!

How do I stop steering with my Shoulders?

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