 Poster: A snowHead
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an intermediate skier!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 7-07-07 18:15; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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An intermediate is anyone those who think they're experts would think it's good sport to malign, but those who are really experts wouldn't. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, There are many definitions, examples are to be found on the snoworks website and also the Freshtracks bit of the Ski Club website.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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An intermediate skier is the Winnie the Pooh of the slopes. He may not be the most brilliant skier, but his heart's in the right place, even though he makes mistakes. He wouldn't dream of leaping off cliffs, but he gets down the mountain. He's dependable. Despite me saying 'he' I think he may be you, Megamum. And, I like to think, me.
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achilles, tsk, tsk, fishing again!
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Hurtle, no. The trouble is people talk about the 'intermediate plateau'. But if it is a plateau, it's a very sloping one. I guess you could define an early intermediate as one who can ski in linked turns down most red slopes, on-piste. I can ski steep black slopes on and off piste. But I wouldn't call myself advanced. I am not all that fast. Truly steep slopes throw an 'off' switch in my legs, especially if the run is tight. I have no intention of doing exotic jumps, and you can keep skiing on rails. Maybe I am advanced intermediate - but I am not, I think, advanced, let alone an expert.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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achilles, from everything I've read, you are definitely, but definitely, advanced - trust me. That is especially so if my SCGB grading - by a trustworthy rep I believe - is advanced intermediate. That's on piste. I am a complete numptie off piste, though am planning to try and acquire a few off-piste skills this coming season, if possible.
What's 'rails'?
Now then, I'm an owl, but what about you? Suffering from insomnia? Time for a nice mug of Horlicks, perhaps?
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| Mosha Marc wrote: |
It's everyone who skis in the terrain between nursery slopes and 10ft hucks  |
No need for more discussions. THAT is the definition.
I mean it seriously.
I would gladly huck a 3-5 ft cornice but not much more. I think most of my "intermediate" mates would too. But we're definitely NOT advanced. We're all in varying degree of "intermediate" level.
The day when I feel I can huck a 10 ft cliff and ski away in total control will be the same day that I feel I can ski the steepest black run even when all the snow has been blown off exposing the base layer of boiler plate ice! That would be the same day I call myself "advanced" because that's the day I can ski, well, ANYTHING.
The truth being, most who can ski MOST things realize they can't ski EVERYTHING. So THEY are not calling themselves "advanced". Those 4-5 week skier who can barely control their speed on the easiest black on a soft snow day might THINK they are advanced, but only for a very short while. They WILL be quickly put back to where they belong: "lower intermediate" in short order.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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OT:
| Hurtle wrote: |
| ........Now then, I'm an owl, but what about you? Suffering from insomnia? Time for a nice mug of Horlicks, perhaps? |
Occasionally some us more senior chaps fall asleep after tea. Eventually we wake up again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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abc, hmmm not true I think. It's perfectly possible to drop off a 15/20 foot crest and ski/board away in control . . . as long as the landing area is a nice flair-out and you know that the idea is not to try to 'catch' the fall. It's a trick of the mind you have to overcome, where your mind is telling you that you have to land upright and stable but to slide away you have to be positioned at an angle that balances the friction of your snowtool and your downward velocity. It's just watch, learn and practice . . . but it's not a difficult skill . . . just a mind switch.
Steep Icy blacks are another matter, requiring many physical, mental and endurance attributes in constant interaction, a continual feedback loop of changing environment, cause, effect and response.
In your comparison it really is apples and oranges and not valid.
Now, jumping 10 foot onto boiler plate ice . . . is expert territory 
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You know it makes sense.
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abc, I think your description is more the difference between 'Advanced' and 'Expert'
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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BANG. BANG. BANG. BANG. BANG. BANG. Meeeeoooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, coffee and bacon . . . go sober up 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From the Warren Smith Academy:
Basic Intermediate
This group consists of skiers who are trying to make basic parallel turns but use a small snowplough wedge in between the turns to help turn initiation. Skiers in this group can generally get down blue runs but struggle on Reds. This is this group have usually never skied moguls, steeps or freeride terrain.
Intermediate
This group consists of skiers who can make basic parallel turns but lack the strength and confidence in the turn to make it consistent. These skiers can usually get down blue and red runs. On red runs however there technique suffers and the body weight moves over the back of the skis making the steering more difficult. These skiers have usually attempted moguls, steeps and a bit of off-piste skiing but with no success.
Advanced Intermediate
This group consists of skiers who can make parallel turns with confidence on blues and reds. When they attempt black runs or steeper gradients they lose their technique and the body weight drops back. Skiers in this group can generally get down moguls, steeps and freeride terrain but with a weak or/and confidence lacking technique.
Advanced
This group consists of skiers who can ski with confidence on Blues, Reds and Black runs. They can carve effectively from turn to turn on nicely groomed snow but are not so consistent when the snow is icy or un-groomed. Skiers in this group can get down steeps, moguls and freeride terrain with confidence and a semi consistent technique but loose control approximately 30% of the time. Skiers at this level want to develop performance towards skiing 40 degrees slopes with good technique and direct (zip) line moguls.
Expert / Instructor
This group consists of skiers who can ski all terrains comfortably but want to be able to ski higher speeds through greater dynamics, ski steeper fall line moguls with a greater range of absorption and extension, make higher speed GS freeride turns in powder and variable snow conditions and generally master a solid technique. Skiers in this group would cover the basics of race training, steep couloirs, instructor exam technical requirements, freeride performance and higher speeds.
Athlete / Performer
This group consists of skiers wishing to compete or who already compete in freeskiing competitions, Alpine racing competition or freestyle skiing disciplines such as moguls, half pipe, big air, slope style or rails. In this group you will also find skiers who are training for there BASI 1 technical exam and Euro Speed Test.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Spyderman,
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abc, I think your description is more the difference between 'Advanced' and 'Expert'
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Ah, commonsense breaks out, thank you. Fine, break down the definition of 'intermediate' into a meaningful series of sub-definitions if you like - SCGB's differentiation between 'Intermediate' and 'Advanced Intermediate' is a reasonable attempt . But, failing that, there's no point in using the word. abc's and achilles' definitions are instruments which are so blunt as to be useless: they are not fit for purpose, if the purpose - as I think it is - is to help people to work out which bits of the hill are reasonably safe for them to tackle. This is not to detract from the important truth that the difficulty of all terrains is variable, not static.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Above posted before sight of Warren Smith definitions. They look useful too and would reinforce my view - even without seeing him ski, just reading on here the sort of conditions he takes in his stride - that achilles is an advanced skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ski brochures nearly always rate resorts in 3 categories for their suitability for Beginner, Intermediate, & Advanced. They are simplifying into 3 bands and surely the term "intermediate" refers to these ratings.
IMHO as follows:
Beginner - Beginner
Intermediate - Quite good
Expert - Very good
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Roll up, Roll up. Who of you will be first to step up to the plate and be pelted with cats?
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Hurtle, Hmm. Having seen the Warren Smith definition - and assuming that it has acceptance, then I accept I would call my self advanced. The trouble is pigeon-holing never exactly works, for me. I am not that keen to leap - though if need be I can. I can ski a fairly direct line thorough moguls (though I like to pick a line, and if they are cut up won't go one-on-one) but not quickly. I can ski pretty much all types of snow but often not elegantly. I am ponderous skiing through gates in a race - I wonder if crazy_skier_jules gives coaching lessons? 
There was time when I did think of myself as an advanced skier. But these days, I know there is so much I should do better. And I have also met so many skiers better than I, so I hesitate to use the word 'advanced' about myself (though if it saves me from getting pelted by cats in Chamonix, I might).
I have seen the expression 'intermediate plateau' over the years. If it means some skiers being stuck at a particular level of skiing it has some validity. But I think there is a very progressive change in skiing level from earliest snow plough to expert instructor. In that overall range, I suppose I am rather more than halfway up the mountain. But I put those approaching the top in the 'advanced' team - and I don't suppose I shall ever be truly with them (though there are some days when we might have a good day out together). The experts are the sainted band who reach the summit; I shall never be in their league.
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I know I will get a kicking for supporting it, but I do quite like the current SCGB gradings system, which splits on-piste and off-piste performance, and does take into account fitness (always my downfall). Here it is. for those who don't know it, and you can be + or - at any given grade. However - it might seem a bit over analytical.
Having said that - for me - one of the key things that separates the advanced intermediate/advanced skier from the expert is the consistent ability to do it well day in, day out on any surface. I can ski powder pretty well 70-80% of the time, and steeps more than that, but there are days when it just completely falls to pieces. This is a combination of fitness issues, bad habits ceasing to work and "losing the will to turn".
However I suspect the day I have no room for personal improvement, I will lose a lot of my interest in skiing.
SMALLZOOKEEPER, let me know when you get the cats sorted out, so I can carry a baseball bat! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum,
There you have it...a whole range of definitions. Just a little piece from most of them and you'll be thereabouts IMV.
Thankfully, these posts might put an end to this thread going round in circles...
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Then of course we have the matter of self percption of own ability vs. reality.
"I can make good parallel turns on the piste, really, I can".......
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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stoatsbrother, yep, I know exactly how you feel and as I get older, each step gets harder to take.
Megamum, there you have it, almost everyone is a beginner, intermediate, advanced at various points in their skills repertoire and we all need to take instruction, learning and practice to improve . . . it's a life goal that for a very rare few will be accomplished . . . that rest of us just have to take the great pleasure of getting as good as we can get. Don't forget that where we play is a big part of the peasure.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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little tiger, Ah yes, good ol' Reilly!
I wonder if you can ski like that without lessons?
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight, in your own mind I'm sure you can!
Reilly is the friend of a young guy I hooked up with my instructor for race coaching purposes... I have some idea how much that kid worked on his skiing and I am guessing Reilly would be about the same...
Do we know if Reilly got his APSI 3 on his resit? I'm banking he is Oz demo team very soon!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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little tiger,
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Reilly is the friend of a young guy I hooked up with my instructor for race coaching purposes... I have some idea how much that kid worked on his skiing and I am guessing Reilly would be about the same...
Do we know if Reilly got his APSI 3 on his resit? I'm banking he is Oz demo team very soon! |
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, ah yes you met WTFH didn't you.. he enjoys name dropping IIRC.... demo team.... blah blah... demo team... blah blah...examiner...
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Poster: A snowHead
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, stop it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hurtle, For every voice, there's a louder one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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little tiger, He's APSI3 and PSIA3
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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veeeight, last I had heard he was PSIA 3 but had failed APSI 3... had a resit... it was nothing major IIRC... and you would expect him to probably pass the resit which I would guess was early season (ie past)
I still think he should make that demo team pretty soon... I've seen them all out training and know some of the skiers on it...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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SMALLZOOKEEPER, the sad thing is that I don't think it's my emoticon that you're laughing at... 
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Hurtle,
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hucking???? How about just falling off the drops. I am an expert at that
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Er....Query...........Hucking?
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FAQ
