 Poster: A snowHead
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How do people feel about the fact that the SCGB Gold test has been discontinued? The reason is that so few were taking it (which was only partly because it was hard to find 2 gold judges - or one plus an assistant who had passed the test him- or her-self, to administer the test).
For those who don't know it was in 4 parts: piste (including moguls); powder; variable snow (crud, porridge, breakable crust - choice of line and reading the snow conditions was part of this); and the race (usually the French Fleche - Vermeil standard). The first 3 parts were quite lengthy, occupying up to half a day.
This was the most advanced test of recreational skiing offered by a British organisation (I don't know what similar tests are offered by other countries.
As I just said on a Piste thread, Tests and competitions aren't really what my own skiing is about, and I would never have done it if almost everyone on a SCGB holiday I was on hadn't decided to do the 3 tests possible (there was no powder about).
Once I had got 2 parts on that holiday (I failed the race) I just felt I should get the rest, and I must admit I'm quite proud to have it and feel I have to ski up to it (which I don't always).
The Gold standard still exists notionally for gauging standards on SCGB holidays etc but is just the opinion of SCGB leaders and reps from having seen you ski.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball, in 'commercial' 'membership service' terms this is a non-issue, since the Ski Club membership package does not include the facility to take ski tests. I believe that's been the case for a very long time now.
Technically, your first sentence requires an official clarification as I'm not sure that the gold test has been discontinued, officially.
I'm writing this as a former Council member of the Club, but I don't recall the issue of ski tests even being raised about 15 years ago when I sat on the committee. I do believe that reps of the Club offer a testing service for schoolchildren etc. on organised trips who request it, but the award may not be the Club's own medal. That would need verifying by a rep.
I became a member in 1962 to take a bronze test as a kid. Certainly the impact of the tests reverberates to this day, as the 'silver' and 'gold' standards are still referred to in the Club's holiday brochure. More than that I don't know.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, the Gold award was always the club's own medal.
The tests could, until recently, be taken by anyone who could locate the requisite judges. For many years the chief venue and source of gold passes has been the "Hot Shot" holidays, since there were always several Gold judges on these and it was offered in the holiday prospectus.
Since the demise of that holiday there has been talk of training more judges, and offering it on other holidays and with a less rigid and formalised test structure (more like continuous assessment). However the take-up was minimal the first time they tried it 2 years ago, and last year I was told by someone who had talked to Caroline Stuart Taylor that they had decided to let it die.
The Gold test was quite a challenge - most people failed - one time I was an assistant judge on a variable snow test, out of 7 who did it, including the last ski club CEO, nobody passed.)
In future , unless they reconsider, gold will be a notional ski level for holiday grading (though I assume reps will still administer the Bronze and silver).
Really I think the only way to revive the gold test would be a holiday like the Hot Shots (which lasted about 10 years and just grew and grew till it became too large to retain its original character), but the success of that was based in the personalities and superlative skiing ability of the 2 leaders who started it plus Mark Cotgrove who joined later.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 4-11-04 11:00; edited 2 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And all this from an organisation this still has a say in the management of competitive British snow sports.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowball wrote: |
| How do people feel about the fact that the SCGB Gold test has been discontinued? |
Source?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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As in second paragraph last posting.
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| PG wrote: |
| And all this from an organisation this still has a say in the management of competitive British snow sports. |
Do they?
I know that at one time they were also responsible for British competitive snow sports, but I was under the impression they were now only involved in the recreational side (and their own eccentric internal competitions).
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There's no point in embarrassing the Club over this issue. Organising and administering tests - which must be scrupulously fair - is a big task, and if the Club doesn't have the volunteer labour to do it, so be it...
...but there's a very important historical lesson to this. The Club took a crucial decision, though probably more of a 'default', not to involve itself in Scottish skiing from the early 1960s. That's when the first serious ski lifts and Aviemore were built. This meant that the Club didn't become BASI - it didn't assume the task of training ski instructors, which was a golden opportunity.
Ski tests are best judged by people professionally trained to teach ski technique, so I'm afraid any lapse in the Club's involvement in this field can be traced to that chapter in British skiing.
This is not an isolated issue. British skiing - in terms of its recreational, sporting and teaching dimensions - is a fairly fractured affair. I'm no expert on yachting, but I believe the RYA is involved in all three aspects of its sport, including the qualification and testing of participants (including windsurfing?)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| snowball wrote: |
| PG wrote: |
| And all this from an organisation that still has a say in the management of competitive British snow sports. |
Do they?
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SCGB is in Snowsports GB at high level. Now whether they actually say or do anything there I don't know. But in principle they can influence things.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
Ski tests are best judged by people professionally trained to teach ski technique, so I'm afraid any lapse in the Club's involvement in this field can be traced to that chapter in British skiing. |
Yes, I see your point. I wasn't so much lambasting the club as regretting the loss and wondering if there was some way to reinstate it.
But after all, they only gave up last year.
Ordinary reps never administered the test - you had to go on a Gold Judges course, as I'm sure you know. Some of the judges were (are?) BASI at some level. Perhaps BASI could take it over - but they would have to charge quite a lot to administer it I expect, so I'm not sure anyone would take the test.
As a recreational skiing test it relied on the supportive Ski Club context to operate.
PS "eccentric competitions" was not meant as an insult. I like eccentricity!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 4-11-04 11:58; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| kuwait_ian wrote: |
| snowball wrote: |
| PG wrote: |
| And all this from an organisation that still has a say in the management of competitive British snow sports. |
Do they?
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SCGB is in Snowsports GB at high level. Now whether they actually say or do anything there I don't know. But in principle they can influence things. |
As I understand it, they have a seat on the "Modernisation Working Group" committee, and therefore direct influence on the direction the governing body will take in the future.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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BTW. I think the Ski Club reps are still graded according to the original formula, the assessment is made largely by BASI trainers (or equiv) running the rep's course techical skiing component. I'm not sure if the gold rating on the course is equivalent to passing the gold standard, but it would make sense if it is! I was on the course last year (it was very good by the way).
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When I was on the course we never skied above about silver speed and difficulty. I found the actual skiing rather frustrating for that reason. If they were going to do a gold test, even a less formal one, they would have to take groups of 5 or 6 to ski 40º couloirs and breakable crust. It would be a very different experience.
But even to grade people as gold I don't see how you could know without them skiing some of that sort of thing. Its only the steeps and sh*t snow that show you what people's limitations really are. Anyone can ski nice powder.
Perhaps they put people into groups of different standards now? That might be it.
Were there any / many graded gold?
Do they still get everyone to put on a cabaret?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
they would have to take groups of 5 or 6 to ski 40º couloirs and breakable crust.
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Funnily enough thats exactly what we did. the snow was **** anyway so breakable crust was pretty much the norm for 40% of the off piste skiing. We skied some of the Tignes couloirs, pretty steep - probably 40º in places, though difficult to tell without a clinometer; obviously most of the time was spent doing much easier skiing. The harder couloirs had 10 foot jumps or bigger in them, so were left alone, probably not safe for a group. I went back after the course had finished, nice deep snow by that stage.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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You obviously had a much better time than I did. The pace in our group of 9 was always that of the slowest, who were silver standard. I doubt most of them could have skied the stuff you did.
So, did you Rep last season?
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Poster: A snowHead
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We had a pretty good group and skied pretty fast. I had a lot of fun on the course. Phil Smith did a lot of the technical stuff and he is a amazing instructor. We had some fun skiing breakable crust on short slalom skis, about as easy as it sounds, especially when you weigh about 80kg!
Repped for a couple of weeks in Zermatt last year, this year a holiday: http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/holidays/holiday.asp?intHolidayID=1160
Looks like a good un - if enough people book!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes, fancy doing that route myself. Looks great. The Tannenhof is well located in Zer. for drinking as well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lots of the SCGB holidays are booked out so you might need to hurry, if you mean this year!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| lewis wrote: |
. We had some fun skiing breakable crust on short slalom skis, about as easy as it sounds, especially when you weigh about 80kg!
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Help! I need my heavy, semi-fat Volante (Chubb)s.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Well I mean I'm leading it rather than booking to go on it if you see what I mean! My name is Tam, Lewis is just an online moniker.
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| lewis wrote: |
| Well I mean I'm leading it rather than booking to go on it if you see what I mean! My name is Tam, Lewis is just an online moniker. |
Wow. Not up to your level. Looks fun, guess it's good you ".. occasionally enjoy a quiet drink after the slopes shut..." 
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I think we all do! Dodgy picture on the ski club web site. Like any training course I have ever done they took the piccie on the last day when everyone was suffering with hangovers! Ah well, I'm hoping it doesn't put people off!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| lewis wrote: |
| Well I mean I'm leading it rather than booking to go on it if you see what I mean! My name is Tam, Lewis is just an online moniker. |
Actually I was refering to the Monte Rosa holiday I've booked, which you said you fancied going on.
Perhaps we will ski together one day  ...Assuming we haven't already without knowing it. Did you go on many SCGB holidays before doing the Reps' Course?
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I probably couldn't afford it!! Hope to see you on the slopes. Never done any ski club stuff before - but we've probably been on the same mountain at the same time somewhere!
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FAQ
