 Poster: A snowHead
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what different technique is needed for powder?
I assume it's more about slightly back int he stance and pressure on the outside foot to turn rather than carving technique?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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GordonFreeman, I'll give you a holding reply, while someone qualified turns up!
Centred as normal ... leaning back implies more effort and less control.
Feet closer together than on-piste ... or they'll end up going in different directions.
More equal weighting ... lest one ski sinks relative to the other and hence goes less fast.
Plenty of up and down movement.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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so more of the bouncy quick turns style that my instructor had me doing on some steep slopes recently?
unless you're doing wide turns I suppose?
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GordonFreeman, definitely bouncy, and aim for rhythmical: short versus long radius will depend on steepness and width of slope.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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you must have to tilt the sis up slightly otherwise they'll dig in?
...or is that the point of fat skis for flotation so that this doesn't happen?
On that note, what's the recommended minimum waist for a powder ski?
Need to try and find something in the rental shop that covers this and some on piste stuff...
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I like to do it all on slalom skis - only gets a bit difficult when the slopes get to flat. The secret is to go fast 
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So,
thin ski + fast on powder = fine
fat ski + medium/slow on powder = fine
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you pick a gentle slope and get the bounce going, just ever so slightly weigh each side and you'll be quite surprised how turney your tracks will be.
Its all about getting the right speed for the slope...too fast and you'll need to be able to hang on, too slow and the snow will want to trip you up
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most skis are fattest at the front so (in theory) once you get going the tips should float.
really, there are lots of techniques for skiing powder. the most important thing IMO is making sure one ski doesn't dig in a lot more than the other. to prevent this, your weight should be distributed more evenly than it probably is on piste. hard and fast rules on distribution of weight aren't all that helpful IMO - you just need to get a feel for it and if you feel one ski digging in too deep, get some weight on the other ski.
the other point is that you can't expect your skis to do things as quickly as on piste - turns need to be progressive and hockey stops can be quite hazardous!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GordonFreeman, I will give it a go! centred over the ski. Linked and fluid movements (if you loose the link of movements you create a dead point in the turn, this is where you become vulnerable) stretch your legs out (laterally and in relation to the turn shape), as the pressure builds towards the end of the arc allow your legs to fold, change edges and stretch again. Works for me!
Lots of people make panic turns. They make fast, hard movements. To ski well in powder you need to slow it down and smooth it out. Its all about pressure control.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rythmn and relaxation are the most critical points.
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'ello, 'ello. Whose been reading the SCGB thread, then? Been a hot topic over there. I'll be interested to see what some of the instructor mob here have to say on this.
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You know it makes sense.
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GordonFreeman, Different snow on different pitches of slope will require different techniques, but a good place to start would be to find an easy slope with a bit of powder on it and have a go using your usual technique focusing on staying centred and balanced.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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achilles, I'm reluctant to say anything at all now on the subject of technique. I might be accused of being arrogant if I disagree with what's already been written.
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brian
brian
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easiski, no danger. A dismissive one liner put down with no attempt at argument is arrogant. Don't think you've ever done that (or would ever).
So please fire in, I for one am very interested.
Personally I don't do a lot different off piste other than try to feel the snow a bit more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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easiski, don't take the bait!
On a more serious note, and to answer the question:
USE THE FLIPPIN SEARCH FUNCTION!
Really some threads do not need to be re-hashed for the Nth time....
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brian
brian
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rungsp, it's June. Any ski chat is cathartic even if it is rehashed.
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brian,
Yep, agree with that. Its a bit slow and besides lots of people have different styles.
I tend to re-position my weight....trying to avoid the phrase 'lean back'..to get the tips up, if they haven't 'washed' up on a bank of snow already, and turn as normal because I have gotten the tips issue out of the way. If anyone has seen me do this, feel free to tell me if this looks poor. I don't have any film so can't really be so sure.
A good skiing buddy uses skinny skis and drives through the snow which seems to be making things hard for yourself...but he skis it very well, IMO.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| rungsp wrote: |
USE THE FLIPPIN SEARCH FUNCTION!
Really some threads do not need to be re-hashed for the Nth time.... |
The Search function on SnowHeads is not user-friendly. It is one of this excellent site's few weaknesses. It needs simplifying and improving. That is why many people don't use it often.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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GordonFreeman, It is true that this very subject has been discussed ad nauseum already. However here are more thoughts: Nothing different. Good technique works in all snow conditions on all slopes. The exception is totally bottomless powder, but you'd have a job to find that in europe anyway, so you shouldn't worry about it. If you ski it once in your life you'll be doing better than most.
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GordonFreeman, At the risk of making an arrogant sounding post, Good solid skiing technique works pretty much in all terrain and condition, with slight adaptations to the conditions.
However, (and unfortunately), most people who ski mainly on piste, don't have good technique to start off with, as a groomed run is extremely forgiving with bad stance, bad balance, bad technique etc. so most people struggle when they venture anywhere off the groomed runs. Which would indicate that they weren't centred, (well) balanced nor mobile in the first place.
In short, good basic technique that you use on piste (with small adjustments) will see you ski well in powder. If you're struggling you need to go back to basics!
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brian
brian
Guest
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, I think GordonFreeman is indeed going outside of Europe. He's posted numereous question about S. America, where it appears (to me) off-piste and bottomless snow are the main reason for going there at all.
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yep, chile. Probably Ski Arpa and La Parva. Plenty of off piste and some untouched snow at Si Arpa catski
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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GordonFreeman, Take an instructor companion with you. When is it you're going again? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Technique verses skill, there is a question. Many skiers aim to get the "right technique" say in powder or bumps or carving. Maybe what people really need to focus on in the skilful application? Techniques are movement patters that lead to predictable outcomes, skill is applying them in the right situation ie skill is to draw on your many and pre learnt techniques in the right situation. Example: The technique to carve (the movement patters) would not be skilfully applied if employed to ski a 50 degree gully.
I agree with Veeeight in as much as there is no substitute for good balance, posture and movements. They just need "skilfully applying" in powder (or any other situation for that). There is no special "technique" to ski deep snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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veeeight, Not the man, have read all the books though ( any many more). Do you think I am reading too much? I should get out more.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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elbrus, have you worked with/for (or even are you ) Phil S? That's almost word-for-word one of his little lectures. (Edit: ah it seems he may have been reading the same books as you guys)
easiski, veeeight, agreed. But what are those adjustments? Would you agree that it's:
a) feet probably a bit closer together (unless you've got extremely good directional control of each foot individually);
b) weight more evenly spread to prevent one ski pushing in lower than the other (like wot Arno said), and
c) make sure you don't put much/any pressure on the front of the skis at the start of the turn.
(and wot brian said).
BTW I've had what could be called bottomless powder (i.e. the skis felt no hard base while skiing under atbout 70cm of powder) twice in Europe: once near Klosters about 4 years ago, and a couple of pitches in LG last year.
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Poster: A snowHead
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GrahamN, I'm not sure it's actually about the feet closer - it seems to me that it's to do with using both your legs together at the same time rather than independently as on a piste. Anyway that's what it feels like to me. Otherwise I think you have it. Skied bottomless twice? - count yourself one lucky bunny.
Never mind the pedantic stuff about what is technique and what is skill, the majority of skiers ski very badly and turn largely by rotation of one part of their body or another. The anxiety of deep snow makes them rotate more and thus fall over more or less every turn as the skis stop moving sideways and they carry on. Good basic stance on the point of balance and proper, correct technique results in very little trouble changing to deeper snow. Everything takes longer to happen though - hence the anxiety.
ps: it was Ali Ross who first taught me all this way back in the dark days.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| easiski wrote: |
| GrahamN, I'm not sure it's actually about the feet closer - it seems to me that it's to do with using both your legs together at the same time rather than independently as on a piste. |
If I'm reading that right, that could be a lightbulb moment. For those of us with more imagery-oriented minds, could that be interpreted as something like imagine you're on a monoski? Clamping feet and knees together would give the wrong idea but whatever one leg does the other has to do with it in tandem?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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easiski, my experience is more like GrahamN's. I was asked to try to use both feet together. And I found the closer they're together the easier to use them together. Beyond a certain stance width, they simply went their seperate ways no matter how hard I try.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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eng_ch, that's what works for me. The feet closer thing just helps it out - it makes it much easier to ensure the knees move in exact tandem - and you also stand less chance of the skis experiencing different quality snow and then behaving in different ways. But it is at the expense of giving you less lateral stability - so the better you get at matching those movements the wider they can drift again to get that back. Phil S is pretty keen on maintaining the wide stance throughout - but it's really difficult then to maintain that control.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Gordon, there was a discussion recently here which you may find helpful: http://forums.epicski.com/showthread.php?t=56737
Everyone has pretty much covered the technique points above. A lot depends on the water content and depth of the snow, the surface area of your skis (compared to your body weight) and the gradient. It also depends how much the snow surface has been affected by sun or wind.
As Arno correctly mentioned, most skis undergo "tail sink", and will float "tips up" in powder because they're wider at the front, and the bindings are mounted aft of centre. (Watch out for centre-mounted freestyle skis in powder - they can submarine!) This means that if the skier's body is perpendicular to the skis (and well balanced over them), it may look to the untrained eye as if the body is slightly leaning back, relative to the slope.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Rythmn and relaxation are the most critical points. |
I've been told that before. Not by Whitegold. If fact, I don't think it was about skiing either  .
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maggi, how do you know it wasn't by Whitegold. 
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GrahamN, yes..........but that would blow my cover and i am enjoying being anonymous!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eng_ch, re the monoski...
My instructor once heard me moaning about it being so much easier for snowboarders in powder as they have only 1 plank... to which he replied I should "act like one then"..... so I guess he would say yes to your question...
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| Clamping feet and knees together would give the wrong idea but whatever one leg does the other has to do with it in tandem? |
Trouble is, if you do that on a regular monoski you just bend the thing in half lengthwise.
(been there, done that, couldn't let go of the turn, fell over facing uphill)
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