 Poster: A snowHead
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Taking a nod from Fatbob's "Benchmark runs" thread to determine how your skiing compares when you set out to ski with a new set of people, the thread concentrated on what runs do you ski well and therefore give yourself some sort of rating for comparison.
What if the group you were going to join up with, talked about a lot of runs that you couldn't compare as none of you had skied them..!! How would you match up your skill set with theirs. It is no fun being burned off on piste let alone on a route that you have to complete top to bottom. And by the same token, you don't want to be hanging around all day when someone is struggling
And, IME, I have seen many a good red run blaster go completely to pieces when the going gets tricky and you go off the beaten track.
So, what skills would you need to have...? or think you would need to have?
My starter is the only goal is compatability, not who is the best skier.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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a mastery of the power sideslip gets me most places i need to go 
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brian
brian
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Key skill is an unnerving ability to find and dig out a ski buried in 4' of snow at some point in the last 20 yards behind you 
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You sound like the type of guys I'd like to ski with. Do you get the beers in first..? 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stem turn in breakable crust???
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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kitenski,
Any skiing ability in breakable crust is a good pointer.
As is a bullet-proof sideslip.
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Good question: Honesty is the first point and I'd rather people slightly undersell themselves because what they say about their ability is what sets your expectations for the day. As a skill, hmmm hard to say, on piste it's amazing how many people can't do a straight line emergency stop. Also skiing down narrow bumpy paths gives you a good idea.
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moguls is a good thing as well as if your intending to cover some serious ground on or off piste you'll be bound to come across some!
I skied with some guys once on a ski hosting day, first impressions I thought fantastic, can ski with these guys all day. hit some tiny moguls and they were all over the place!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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For skiers -- steep, tall moguls and steep breakable crust sort the men from the losers.
For boarders -- steep, tall moguls soon separate the wheat from chaff.
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i find unsteep breakable crust more difficult than steep breakable crust
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Breakable crust is always difficult.
To get back to JT's point I would say stability on their skis is the skill required for anything off piste.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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If they had never heard of bum-slidding, that might set you thinking....
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The ability to stop where and when you want to?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Arno wrote: |
| i find unsteep breakable crust more difficult than steep breakable crust |
That's true. If the slope is 40 degrees + you jump turn, have a brief moment of free fall where you bring your skis around before breaking through the crust again as you land. The secret is not to topple down the slope when you land, to get the skis clear so you can turn rather than schussing off down a steep chute... and to link these turns giving the perception that you are skiing breakable crust. Not easy if you have a heavy touring pack, are tired, or not fit.
I don't remember when I last skied any real crust - maybe at the EoSB two years ago on the combe sans nom. I prefer to avoid it and any other difficult ski conditions that make me look like a noob.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Some boxes to tick off?
Have (or not) done the following with control -- or better yet, style & speed:
Terrain: steep (& narrow), mogul, tree, rock (that you need to leap off)
Condition: Ice, powder, crud (broken up icy chunks), breakable crust.
In the above order.
You get the idea.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 28-06-07 20:37; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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abc,
Yes. It goes along the lines of 'I'm going to have stop posting or even lurking here soon, because my confidence is being undermined by all the machismo.' 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The ability to turn both ways and stop where and when you want to.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Interesting stuff, but when does a run become steep?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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In no order at all
Balance fore/aft over skis
Balance laterally
arc to arc turns (ie clean transitions NO pivot or steer)...
perform pivot entry turn
steer skis
guide skis
pressure control(aaarrrggghhh)
steered turns - no heel thrust
ski a set line(eg follow IN tracks not somewhere in same direction, or reasonable line in a course)
choose a line
make sudden changes to a line (eg accident avoidance)
reduce speed on demand
stop when required
ski snow grass
ski mud
ski bushes
navigation skills (navigate to within 1-2metres in dark or poor vis over a distance of a few km)
avalanche training
ability to build snow cave (and know how to sleep in it without suffocating)
ability to erect tent that will survive gale force winds most times(eg build snowwall, direction of tent etc etc etc)
knowledge of such things as water purification requirements and minimum survival needs
ability to use poo tube (and construct??) and empty in environmental manner
wilderness first aid
basic first aid
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You can use a lot of buzz words but how do Peeps know they will be on the same sort of level. How do we sort out how good a game we can all talk and how it stacks up when you meet them on the hill...on a not too easy warm-up. Because by then, it is a bit late.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Benchmark skills:
1. Are you friendly?
2. Do you mind slowing down for me if necessary?*
3. Will you get your round in at the bar?
*Equally, will you be happy to go off without me, but meet later for lunch/drinks if planned?
Everything else is relatively irrelevant.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
| Quote: |
Benchmark skills:
1. Are you friendly?
2. Do you mind slowing down for me if necessary?*
3. Will you get your round in at the bar?
*Equally, will you be happy to go off without me, but meet later for lunch/drinks if planned?
Everything else is relatively irrelevant.
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I rarely offer to kiss strangers, but I'm almost (only almost, please note) minded to give you a virtual kiss for that. 
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For back-country... I would rely a LOT on contacts... I know if one of my brothers friends says someone is competent as a guide/instructor they ARE... I also know enough to think twice if anyone pulls a face or says nothing....
I'm fussy enough about company for very simple multi-day walks in the bush... why would I be less fussy doing same in the snow?
I have a couple of on-line friends I'd go backcountry/front country skiing with - but have known them many years and have a reasonable idea of their knowledge and attitudes... also they know my friends as they buy/hire gear from them(and have had a lesson or three in 1 case I believe)... so again I can check up....
I avoid those that "tick off runs"or have only a desire to "compete" or "chest beat" with those they ski with - it just annoys me to have to deal with that sort of personality during my snow time. I prefer more supportive types for ski company. So that gives me a good short list to start with.
Why do peeps "need to know they will be on the same level"? I have skied a whole week with a disabled woman helping to get her to ski down the beginner slope unaided - and I had a BALL... however we were NEVER on the same level... we just enjoyed the company! Similarly I have ski friends that are much better skiers than I'll ever be - but they are happy to ski with me... and others I've surpassed over the last couple fo years... we skied together when I was the weaker skier and we ski together now I am the stronger skier... again why does it matter what level we are?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Spyderman,
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The ability to turn both ways and stop where and when you want to
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OK, well I can do that, you can do that but, I'm no-where near the skier you are. Those skills are relative to a particular slope.
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we just enjoyed the company...why does it matter what level we are?
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Because I'd rather "enjoy their company" in the bar than on the slope?
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brian
brian
Guest
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little tiger, this has been kicked off by the La Grave thread in trips.
I agree with your general point, I mean I ski loads with my kids and have a great time pootling about.
However, when you've cashed in your brownie points and you've only got a few short days to ski somewhere like LG that you've thought about getting to for yonks, then you want to make the most of it. You don't want to be either keeping everyone else back or chomping at the bit to get out and ski stuff the whole group can't handle.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Wear The Fox Hat,
Thats fine and not unreasonable at all.
I think I would say what terrain I was happy on and what snow I have difficulty on. This becomes most pertinent if you go off-piste.
If the conditions are good then they are great leveller, within reason; if they are bad, then that makes the whole thing stretch out the range of skills. So little differences can become quite big
Desirables: A side slip that copes with anything.
A little stem if ness..a banker turn, if you like..(must be bombproof)
and a useable and not tiring jump turn.
That should make things a bit transferrable...and don't get into a group of mad Scandi's.....!!!!!!!!
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| Megamum wrote: |
Spyderman,
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The ability to turn both ways and stop where and when you want to
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OK, well I can do that, you can do that. |
No, Megamum, no too many peeps can.
For example, I can't turn both ways when it's seriously narrow and steep, especially when the narrow and steep got seriously icy.
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You know it makes sense.
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JT, what's a banker turn?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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they are my ski friends and I want to ski with them... if I wanted drinking buddies I might be looking for different folks... I ski with people I want to ski with... Usually that means folks that like watching the birds, looking for wombats and antechinus and maybe the odd echidna, taking in the view, and generally kicking back... couple that with learning and you have a total buzz!
I'll spend time to help others because I enjoy sharing my love of snow and skiing... I'm just not selfish enough to want to ditch people because they don't ski well enough YET (not trying is a whole different matter...)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| abc wrote: |
| JT, what's a banker turn? |
A turn you can rely on, or bank on, to get you around safely no matter how challenging the terrain. It could be a good stem, a jump turn, even a strong snowplough - just something that you are happy doing on very difficult slopes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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abc,
It is something that ALWAYs works and get you out of any trouble.
If the terrain is steep and the snow unhelpful and you just must get a turn in, that is the time to get out the banker turn.
I have seen very good skiers use a mini stem for this. I prefer a little jump turn, but whatever you have, it must work
I guess it is slang for going to your banker , as they always have money...thats the jist, anyway
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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brian, if it was THAT important to me that I felt I could not "waste" any time I'd hire a professional.... work out what YOUR time is worth per hour... multiply by factor to determine relative cost of special time...work out what it may cost to NOT hire trained pro....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Ah, thanks, rob@rar, JT.
So I guess for me it's stem for icy and jump for slush then.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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little tiger, I freely confess being more selfish than you.
I've been screwed more than once by those who SAY they want my help as they learn. But after all the waiting around I realize they couldn't be bothered to do what it REALLY take to get better... (e.g. lesson, drills, more snow time before pub time etc.)
Until I know them better, I'm not willing to wait up...let's meet at the bar afterwards
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Megamum wrote:
Spyderman,
Quote:
The ability to turn both ways and stop where and when you want to
OK, well I can do that, you can do that.
No, Megamum, no too many peeps can.
For example, I can't turn both ways when it's seriously narrow and steep, especially when the narrow and steep got seriously icy.
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abc, That's why I added that its relative to the slope that you're on. I wouldn't want to ski a slope that I couldn't do turn both ways and stop on, but I can do it on the slope I chose to ski on!!
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| JT wrote: |
A little stem if ness..a banker turn, if you like..(must be bombproof)
and a useable and not tiring jump turn.
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I do not like reading/writing about skiing technique. It makes my brain hurt. It also seems a bit nerdy.
I do not mind DVDs or talking about technique.
However, the impression I got from the Warren Smith course last March was that stem turns were out. Bracage is Nu Skool - for all the good it did me. Stems were seen as very much a last resort - which is a shame, because I like stem turns.
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abc, not trying is inexcusable in my books....
I may be a klutz but I'm a stubborn klutz and I have little time to waste for those that think someone (usually an instructor) will wave a wand and make them a better skier... I select my instructors carefully and we get on well for a reason... My ski friends tend to be a particular type to start with... That disabled lady was VERY courageous - one hard worker! She just will never ski as well as me for various reasons... but I'd ski with her again tomorrow!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, this thread was started by JT inquiring how to branchmarking skill BEFORE getting on the slope...
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I wouldn't want to ski a slope that I couldn't do turn both ways and stop on, but I can do it on the slope I chose to ski on!!
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Whether one mean it or not, there will be times when one come upon a slope, or worse, half way down it, to find it turn into a wall!
Going off-piste/touring, there's no "grading" of red, blue and black. You've got to ski whatever you're on, without seeing it first, in whatever condition it happen to be.
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| Latchigo wrote: |
| However, the impression I got from the Warren Smith course last March was that stem turns were out. |
I can only assume that he was deliberately overstating a case in trying to break old habits. Only an idiot completely discards a technique that works well - as there will be occasions when that is the most appropriate/only workable technique. It's just that they are much rarer occasions than they used to be.
Once, in Flaine coming down something like a sheeptrack through a scrubby thicket my legs went completely to jelly, my confidence went, and I could no longer make a parallel turn. The instructor got me doing snowplough and stems turns to get through until my muscles and confidence came back. If I couldn't have done those, then I'd have had to take off my skis and walk. Braquage doesn't really work in deep or cut-up snow - in tight and/or steep rough-cut snow the stem is pretty much the turn of choice.
Stems, jumps and sideslips are indispensible tools in an off-piste/back-country skier's toolbox (and probably the kick-turn too).
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FAQ
