 Poster: A snowHead
|
I'm considering going down the plate and binding route as a means of getting 3 pairs of skis into a double ski bag and only having one binding. The main considerations for me are that the plate and binding aren't too heavy, adjust easily fore and aft (preferably on the hill with a leatherman) and are suitable for mounting on across a range of skis.
Has anybody got any experience of the 3 systems I have listed above - the pros and cons etc?
The skis I'm considering mounting them on are...
Stockli XLs
2 from the following, which I've got to decide on...
K2 Public Enemy
Dynastar 8800/Mythic
Stockli DP Pro
Dynastar Legend Pro
K2 Seth Vicious
Cheers
BB
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I'm always going to say Vist speed-lock for reasons that are clear.
Pros.
What do you need a leatherman for. Heel and toe peices is held on with pins (that can be changed easily by a tech if you wanted to direct m ount the bindings). Press the saftey and open the sytem and the heel and toe peice lift off altogether.
This allows you to move the position within seconds and without tools to a fore, central or aft position.
Only need one set of heel and toe peices for an entire quiver of skis to keep weight and room down.
Cons.
You have to keep the system clean to stop grit getting in to the speedlock levers.
does add weight.
Stockli are a vist partner.
I've mounted speedlock plates and skis rangeing from 66mm under foot to 110mm underfoot so the speedlock system would work on all the skis mentioned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
kiwi1 could you do me a deal on 11 plates and 4 sets of bindings?
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I can support spyderjon to enable him to do you a great deal so indirectly yes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
bucking bronco, don't know anything about railflex, but whilst you can mix and match the Neox system it is a bit fiddly.
I've seen the Vist system and it's obviously made in a way to facilitate easy removal, mainly to allow binding position to be altered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Not sure about the technicalities, but the VIST bindings are some of the pimpest that I've ever seen.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kramer, I suspect that they may be opening a test centre in La Rosiere very soon 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| bucking bronco wrote: |
The skis I'm considering mounting them on are...
Stockli XLs
2 from the following, which I've got to decide on...
K2 Public Enemy
Dynastar 8800/Mythic
Stockli DP Pro
Dynastar Legend Pro
K2 Seth Vicious
Cheers
BB |
3 from that lot seems to have quite a lot of overlap. i'd say PEs plus LPs or XLs plus Seths would cover most bases
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Arno, since he's already got the XLs, you reckon he should go for the Seths? (I think so!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
bucking bronco, Multiple skis with one set of bindings is exactly what I do & I've got both VIST & Neox & have tuned many skis with Tyrolia's so feel well qualified to comment.
Although I sell VIST bindings I'm well known for being a big fan of Neox bindings (I've currently got 3 pairs of them on my Atomics) so please be assured that I'm being totally honest with my comments.
Basically forget the Railfex unless you already own a pair as although they're easily interchangeable both VIST & Neox out do them in all other areas.
So that leaves VIST & Neox:
QUALITY
Firstly they're both super accurate re DIN release torques etc (i've fully tested them both on my electronic torque tester) & are both super durable. It is important to only adjust the Neox forward pressure with the boot removed unless the thread can be damaged but I was taught to do that on all makes of binding. The new Neox's have an open fronted design on the toe piece which looks a bit vunerable but I gave mine a good few wacks in Verbier with no problem. Rumour has it that the plastic cover on the DIN scale of the VIST heel piece can be a bit vunerable but it's designed to be easily replaced & kiwi1 has supplied me with a bag of them just in case. And the plastic covers on the VIST bindings are purely cosmetic & hide a metal mechanism so don't think the binding is plastic. Basically there's certainly no reliability/safety issues to sway your decision either way.
ADJUSTMENT
As Marc says the Neox's, whilst straightforward, are more fiddly to set-up & adjust. I've a section on my website showing how to adjust the Neox's if you're not familiar with them. I took two pairs of Atomic's with me to Verbier in Jan with just one pair of heel & toe pieces. With a no.3 pozi driver in my Leatherman it took me about 5 mins to install my bindings on my piste skis on arrival & then about 11/12 minutes at the end of the day to swap them to my freeride skis for use the next day. A pair of VIST toe & heel pieces take about a minute to install & swap. To adjust the Neox's I need to wear my reading spec to read the boot length scale which would be a pain on the slope. For on-the-hill changes the tool free VIST system just can't be beaten, period.
Both VIST & Neox are superb for fore/aft positioning of the bindings however Neox technically has the edge as the bindings can be adusted in approx 2/3mm increments whereas the VIST's move at approx 10mm intervals - although the finer adjustment on the Neox is what makes it fiddly. Both makes accept all adult boot lengths equally well.
With Neox's the brakes stay attached to the rail on the ski whereas on VIST's the brakes are attached to the toe piece (like Sallies & Look etc) so if you're swapping ski widths by any great amount then with the VIST's you'll also need to change the brakes although it's a single screw & really quick to do. When removed the VIST toe & heel pieces are way more compact than the Neox as the long thin metal boot length scales on the Neox stay attached to their toe & heel pieces. These then need to be well protected when in your hand luggage so they don't get bent - & they also attract the unwanted attention of the UK airport security staff although when I explained what they were I had no problem with them. Interestingly when going through Geneva airport the scanner operator just smiled at me & said "ah, ski bindings".
WEIGHT
A pair of Neox 412 toe & heel pieces weigh 1.94kg excluding the brakes which stay attached to the rail on the ski. A pair of VIST 412 toe & heel pieces weigh 2.14kg including the brakes. Deb thinks I’m a sad git as it is seeing me weighing bindings so I’m not going to weigh the brakes separately, but it's safe say they’re pretty much equal in this respect, although VIST bindings the brakes will be in your hand luggage so doesn’t affect your hold allowance & there’s no chance of them getting bent by baggage handlers.
I don’t know the weights of the Neox rails & Atomic don’t publish them - & mine are all properly glued on so I can't weight them. However they say that they’ve twice made Neox bindings lighter since their initial launch in 04/05, namely the 05/06 & the 07/08 models. I’ve got all three & the toe/heel piece weights are all identical so the reduction has been made in the rail. This is obvious are were once was steel there’s now alloy.
The weight of the VIST plates depends on the model selected:
Speedlock Race – 880g each
Speedlock Pro – 800g each
Speedlock Pro Light – 675g each
Speedlock Pro Super Light – 540g each
Speedlock TT – 540g each
At a punt I’d say that the Neox rails probably weigh in at around 500-600g each, but that's purely a guess.
FLEX
Neox rails hardly add any stiffness to the ski & of course they a true 'freeflex' design. Whereas VIST are non freeflex & can add stiffness to the ski, from the TT at almost none like the Neox to the Race which is pretty stiff, but then it’s designed for a stiff race ski anyway.
COLOUR
Neox are available in a few colours to match Atomic skis whereas there’s loads of different coloured interchangeable covers for the VIST’s. Deb’s 'Animal' range heel pieces are painted in a python snake skin design which are well cool.
AVAILABILITY & PRICE
I talked to Atomic earlier this year re the benefits of this interchangeability to UK skiers who have limited baggage allowances & whilst they appreciated what I was saying there is basically no way they’ll ever supply the Neox components as separates, ie, rails, brakes & toe/heel pieces. So whilst an initial first ski set-up with VIST might be more expensive you only need to buy the addition components you need for your other skis – which is why I’ve two pairs of valuable Neox toe/heel pieces sitting on my shelf doing nowt!
VIST can of course be used on any ski that’s available in the ‘flat’ whereas Neox means that you’re restricted to Atomic skis only in the future – which whilst not a bad thing may have continuity problems as they’re likely to use their recently acquired Salomon bindings on their future models which will screw up the interchangeability.
SUMMARY
If kiwi1 hadn’t shown me VIST I’d be none the wiser & more than happy with my interchangeable Neox set-up. He’s got a lot to answer for……
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Gents
Thanks for the replies, I'm surprised that more UK punters don't use the plate and binding system to take multiple pairs out.
Spyderjon
PM on the way
Cheers
BB
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Would these plates work on skis that has "integrated/system" bindings? (a lot of carvers are)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
abc, No, The VIST speed-lock plates mount to flat skis.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
that probably explains why not more people do the plate/binding thing.
Only the more "specialized" skis are sold flat.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
bucking bronco, hate to jump in so late but I have a few of questions. [Just to be contentious.] Clearly, I have NO IDEA HOW YOU SKI (just making that clear up front  so no criticism or aspersions intended).
A. Why do you want to carry 3 skis anyway?
As far as I can see...(takes breath)...Either you're driving in which case the only argument for a single interchangeable binding is to save cost in which case the Vist is the only way forward... or you're flying and you're the smelly git in the corner who didn't have enough luggage allowance for more than the underwear, socks and t-shirt he arrived in. Bacterial overload will kick in at some point! Plus hassle, stuff to carry aroung, etc. I mean, if you're going skiing for a week, it's unlikely that you'll be able to choose just one pair of skis in advance is it?
Find one ski that does it all (Nordica Dobermann SL-R for example).
B. Why those skis?
The PEs and Seth's seem to address the same (semi-mythical IMV) market - the "park" - fair enough of you're riding/landing switch, which you may well be...if you're not you don't need twin tips and you can avoid needlessly spray everyone else.
The Dynastars and DP Pros are also (allegedly) targetting the same market; straight lining steep fluffies. And if you haven't tried them, the DPs (IMHO) were not designed so that us mere mortals could treat the sacred powder grounds as an easier playground than when we had 207cm straight things, but rather so that Monsieur D. Perret could hoon down very steep powder fields at warp factor 11. I think they're awesome and I have a pair in my letter to Santa already - but AFAIK they are dimensions away from the Dynastars (the Dynastars, as usual, arent my cup of team, I must admit).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Dave
Take your points onboard. But I don't pay for ski carriage so can take as much as I like - never drive as I have friends in Verbier and Chamonix who can ferry me around. But I do smell so fair point  . I've got the Stockli XLs for Ice, i've got the seth's (as of 2 days ago) for powder and I'm after the PE's for an all round soft snow ski, if it's hard then it's the xls and if it's deep then it's the seths.
I'm going through a mid life crisis and I want twin tips! Well only partly true, I picked up the seths for 210 quid and the PE's I can pick up for 110, the XLs I already have; I have a double ski bag and you can only just fit 2 sets in there, with the binding and plate system i'll be able to fit more - I go away for min 2 weeks at a time.
Cheers
BB
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
bucking bronco, Hmm, fair enough I suppose, I wouldn't be *rsed myself with the hassle.
But the XLs (to me and only by report as I haven't tried them (yet)) aren't my idea of an ice ski (the Dobies are!) more an all round any condition ski. And I don't see from the marketing that the Seths differ so substantially from the PEs as to make them worth lugging around.
But I am open minded and quite ready to be convinced!
Now if your quiver was:
Nordica SL-Rs for ice
Nordica GS-Rs for outright speed
Stoeckli SR DP Pros for insane straight lines off piste
I could see your point.
But then, that's my current ideal line up so I would say that wouldn't I?
If you want a wee shottie on the Nordica's next season, give me a shout when you're in Chamonix...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| David Murdoch wrote: |
bucking bronco, Hmm, fair enough I suppose, I wouldn't be *rsed myself with the hassle.
But the XLs (to me and only by report as I haven't tried them (yet)) aren't my idea of an ice ski (the Dobies are!) more an all round any condition ski. And I don't see from the marketing that the Seths differ so substantially from the PEs as to make them worth lugging around.
But I am open minded and quite ready to be convinced!
Now if your quiver was:
Nordica SL-Rs for ice
Nordica GS-Rs for outright speed
Stoeckli SR DP Pros for insane straight lines off piste
I could see your point.
But then, that's my current ideal line up so I would say that wouldn't I?
If you want a wee shottie on the Nordica's next season, give me a shout when you're in Chamonix... |
A mate of mine tried the doberman SLs for about 3 runs on boilerplate then went & bought a pair the following week so I can understand this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
fatbob, were they the -Rs or the generally available ones (which are an excellent ski too I understand!)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Don't know to be honest - I suspect they were the schmoo's version as the price was certainly pretty keen. Is one red on black graphic, the other black on red?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
