 Poster: A snowHead
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So it will soon be Mr HH birthday and because he had such fun at "the event that shall not be named" I'm planning on buying him the basics of an off-piste kit. Not the tranceiver....he can lash out on that for himself!! I'm intending to get:
A day pack.....recommendations for best size/brand etc gratefully recieved
Probe....anything I should know or shall I just bag the cheapest I can find?
Shovel...as above?
First Aid kit
Water carrier....bladder or unbreakable bottle, which would you chose?
Anything else that is an absolute Must Have for a starter kit?
Thanks in advance guys & gals, I know I can rely on you lot for sensible advice, funny remarks and random off topic comments!! 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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WATER?
You expect Mr HH to drink water? Surely a hip flask would be a good idea as well (for medicinal purposes, obviously)
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, He already has a flask....they're essential on-piste kit too you know!!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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pack, transceiver, shovel and probe are the only "must haves". water carriers are a matter of taste - i am currently using an empty powerade bottle having found bladder arrangements too fiddly.
this has been discussed before, but a metal shovel is better than plastic. probes - i am not sure whether there are cr@p ones easily available in the UK. I have gone for the longest I could find (about 300cm) but I take the point that if someone is that deeply buried you're most likely looking at body recovery rather than finding someone alive.
packs? everyone seems to like Da Kine ones although I've never had one. I have a Black Diamond Covert (with Avalung) which I am very pleased with. I reckon Black Diamond make very good quality kit all round FWIW.
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I'm also in the metal shovel camp - although they are definitely heavier than the plastic ones I feel they do a better job with heavy snow. Black Diamond ones are fairly lightweight for what they are - and I concur with Yoda about getting one with an extending handle although it's again a bit more weight. I also have a 3 metre probe. It's probably best to get one with a screw locking arrangement at the top - mine has just a slot for a knot and I do have trouble losing the knot down the tube.
Make sure the pack does have a) enough room to get the shovel inside and b) compression straps to i) reduce volume when it's realtively empty and ii) allow strapping the skis on the outside. Some of course have special ski carriers on the outside, which tend to be quicker to strap them on, although with a bit of practice using the compression straps is not too time consuming, and the ski tails then also form a nice stand when in the A-frame. The cross-pack stowage of the dedicated ski-attachment systems looks a bit cumbersome and unbalanced to me, and it also carries the skis further from your back so there're more leverage on your shoulders. Lots of guides use them though, so they can't be that bad. They do have the advantage over the A-frame though of a much narrower "wheelbase", so you're less likely to get wedged in a cranny if you're have to climb through something narrow. I think BernardC's pack is a diagonal carrier so he can probably tell you more about what they actually feel like.
One thing I was show just AFTER I'd bought mine was a pack with a zip-away back panel that the guide was very pleased with - this allows you to get to stuff at the bottom of the pack without having to completely empty it. I think this may have been a DaKine, or maybe Osprey, but it was about 5 yeasr ago so thay model is probably not made any more. The downside of that is that it does sort of interfere with bladder and or shovel storage (I always pack my shovel so it doubles as a back protector).
I like a bladder, as it saves faffing about getting out the water bottle. You do have to make sure though you blow back though after drinking to avoid the mouthpiece freezing up. Most guides I've seen though use waterbottles. If you do go for a bladder, make sure there's a pocket in the pack to hold it, and go for a Camelbak rather than a Platypus. They're a bit more expensive, but way higher quality (and have a "lifetime" guarantee)
Not really an essential - as long as someone else in the party has one - but I always carry a multitool/Leatherman. You never know when you'll need to tighten something up or cut something off.
I also don't have my own beep, as I nearly always go off-piste with guides/SCGB who provide them as part of the deal.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Tue 29-05-07 14:25; edited 1 time in total
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brian
brian
Guest
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homphomp,
There's a couple of non-txcvr combo deals at snowbigdeal:
http://www.snowbigdeal.com/servlet/the-Combo-Deals-cln-Other-Combos/Categories
Exchange rates are in your favour but I'm not sure how much import duty would be due. I've heard that you're less likely to be charged anything if you:
- get the package sent to your work
- ask them to mail it standard USPS rather than UPS or Fedex or whoever.
I didn't get charged for a helmet I imported recently but I'm not sure if helmets are liable for duty anyway ?
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Another option would be to ring Facewest (one of the site sponsors) and I'm sure they would sell you the pack without the transceiver. I have the Ortovox Top Rider which is very good. You can then buy a water bladder for a few quid and there is a built in holder and strap already in the pack.
You'll have to persuade Mr HH to get the transceiver though, not much point in having a shovel if you don't know where to dig!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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homphomp, I use an Ortovox Cirrus 25 back pack which has a separate compartment for the shovel and probe, I can also fit a first aid kit in the same compartment. They are not cheap, but they are well made and last. I find the 25 ltr is more than adequate for a couple of days touring, there is, or was a 30 ltr one available as well. Ski carrying straps on the sides and an additional strap for an ice axe. Oh and it is very comfortable too.
There are some big steps being made in tranceivers just now in both ease of use and accuracy, really opened my eyes at a recent hands on demo, and priced accordingly, but he does need one.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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homphomp,
I have a shovel and 18 ltr Dakine backpack for sale. It is a very nice little day pack and you can PM me if you are interested.
I am with Arno in that I carry water bottles. It isn't always a great idea to drink on the move but a slurp here and there from a tube is ok as well. Me, I stop for a drink. which takes 2 minutes, about the same time it takes to unfreeze the tube or take a few pics. I haven't been convinced to take a water bladder as you may have to clean the thing out from time to time. You can buy a metal container and flush it daily...or......get some of those marvellous plastic thingeys with water in them that they sell at............everywhere and bin the bottle when you get back to base. Light and easy and collaspable too. THEY could catch on...
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homphomp, take a look at lockwoods, they do a deal on complete sets , pack, shovel, probe + other bits if you want them
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You know it makes sense.
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The Deuter futura28 pack that I use seems to be about the right size for day tours. It has an "aircomfort" back, side compression straps, zipped-off lower compartment so you can put goggles and stuff in an easily accessible place and even a rain-cover built in for those less than sunny days (which never happen of course). Takes shovel and 3 metre Ortovox probe no problem. Personal preference of course but it works for me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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homphomp,
The thing about 3 mtrs probes ...or any other, come to that, is what lenghts the sections collapse into.
Mine is 2mtr carbon and collapses to 330mm per section so fits in a small 18l-20ltr pack.
Size depends on what you want to put in it...but I can carry everything you have to have plus vid, crampons and small 12 mtr rope. The pack is pretty full of course, loaded like this but that isn't an everyday load. You'll not want the pack to be full for day trips, ideally, and 18-20ltrs is as small as you want, IMO. Much bigger and you may have an intrusive bag for your needs.
You'll also want the backplate to be padded and fitted and the DaKines are good for this as well.
The pack will want to be comfortable and fit well as they can cause sweat points. I don't notice mine all day and feel something is missing if I am not wearing it skiing...
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Poster: A snowHead
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powder tracers?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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homphomp,
Slightly off topic then. Even more important than any equipment is the knowledge of how to use it or more importantly the knowledge of how to avoid having to use it where ave rescue stuff is concerned. Why not include in the present a voucher for a couple of days or longer on an ave awareness/ off piste course.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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homphomp, You will need to add a decent hipflask - with an appropriate content...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Snowy, bits of coloured fabric. Tie them to your bindings, so when you fall off you can find your ski which is now burried in the snow.
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FAQ
knows better?) I can't run to the full kit - the credit card company won't let me!! 
) I reckon a two-section extending handle makes digging a bit easier than the short ones that Nick Parks had in Val T. The pack must have a means of attaching skis - most have the side straps but I have seen a Da Kine version which strapped the skis diagonally across the pack. I've no idea if that is a better/easier arrangement however. Another essential - a little strap to tie the tops of the skis together 
