 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rayscoops, i concur.. probably feeling sheepish that he didnt land it..
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Hi,
My 12 year old (boarder) fell off a chair in La Clusaz this year. He failed to sit down properly and instead of letting go clung to the child next to him for a while. When I eventually realised and yelled at him but he still didn't let go and the chair was going higher and higher. Finally he lost his grip at about 30 foot and fell into a pile of soft snow, AKA Bridget Jones. Nobody noticed, stopped the lift or came to check on him. This was probably my most heart stopping moment EVER on a ski trip. Obviously I had to sit tight until we reached the top then ski down with my 5 year old to check on him. He was fine.
I now have a full head of white hair!!! It was one of those "If you get out of this alive, I'll kill you" moments.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
On a more serious note I beleive the Piste Patrol allowed him to waive treatment and get off the hill on his own, if this is the case then that is very poor.
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No, if someone who appears to know his own mind refuses treatment, then even if a doctor tells them they will die without treatment, they cannot be treated against their will. It would be assault. I can't see that a lift operator or piste patroller can insist, if the person concerned refused treatment. And yes, he probably did feel very foolish and wanted to get the hell out of there asap. It may be daft, but it's his right (and maybe he wasn't insured and didn't like the thought of having to pay!!!).
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| rivington alpine wrote: |
40ft off a lift and he says he's Ok and that he's surprised his Mp3 was still playing
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 hahaha, that would be my 1st thought as well, along with "now where did my spliff land?"
Are you sure he fell? I know people who jump out of chairs for a laugh.
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rpft,
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that's such a scary story - kids & lifts don't mix - my experience too
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Absolutely. I get rather scared when, as quite often happens, I'm asked by an instructor with a large class of tinies to escort one up in a lift. What if the child decides to wriggle off the chair while I am supposedly guaranteeing its safety? Even the potential legal liability, let alone the potential horror itself, doesn't bear thinking about too hard. Mind you, I still usually agree, with an arm poised to grab if necessary.
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Hurtle,
I have done this loads of times and am generally glad to help out but they throw the poor tot on the lift, the kid cannot even sit up straight and could quite easily slip straight under the bar and off the chair.... and it is not quite the thing to hold them there ...in these enlightened times..  All this panic and the little kid hasn't got a worry in the world..... scares the crap out of me tho'
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Hurtle, at each end of the chair lifts there are usually enclosed bits where small kids are meant to go - if you ever get into that situation just make sure their bums are right up to the back of the chair & if you are really worried - put a ski pole in front of them.
JT, in france the lifties pick the kids up by their salopettes to make the electronic tags work! as for your experiences most parents should just be thankful that someone was looking after their kids.
bad lift story; my eldest daughter who is really kind & laid back, got on a lift with a mad scotsman last year - he proceeded to tell her how much he hated the english in fairly strong language (she was just 6) and she was so scared she dropped a pole trying to shuffle away from him  I would have disembowled him had I ever met him...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i remember years ago being on the west wall chair on cairngorm when it had been stopped for around 20 minutes, the two guys on the chair in front lifted the bar and jumped off [only 12-15feet i guess] shame that both of them were wearing race bibs with numbers on as they were on the early part of the first week of a two week BASI course, the trainer happened to be on the chair a couple back...saw them, wrote the numbers down confronted them in front of their entire group and sent them home for stupidity.... no refund
expensive day out for the both of them
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I know kids have to be a certain age to ride a chair lift without an adult - however, in any event, what is the best thing to tell them to do when they're on the chair lift. For that matter, I've only ridden one 3 times up and once down (without skis), and have to say that I don't ouze confidence myself. Are there any tips for riding them, for example when to move the bar etc.
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| Megamum wrote: |
| for example when to move the bar etc. |
When the signs say so. 
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You know it makes sense.
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In LDA this year and my OH, sitting to my right on a 2man going up the side of the glacier (not my favorite chair at all) got off before and rode straight in front of me preventing me from getting off. i was left one foot in my board hanging by my right thigh and starting to go back round and down. The liftie just stood there. I realised that if I didnt throw myslef off i would be in trouble. i think i dropped about 10ft. Only when I hit the ground did the liftie stop the chair.
My heart was in my mouth as it is one nasty drop off the side... OH got a tongue lashing too once I caught him up !
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Lucky him.
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Poster: A snowHead
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laundryman,
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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laundryman, The signs? what signs?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Megamum wrote: |
| laundryman, The signs? what signs? |
Are you serious?
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abc, Unfortunatley by the sounds of it, but yes I am - I've seen signs about safety on the piste (pinned on the side of the lifties hut, but so far haven't noticed anything noticable around the chair in any language I can comprehend, but then I haven't specifically looked either, but if the info. is so important I'd have thought it would be positioned and also coloured so that it should jump out on me. I ain't in the habit of asking Q's that I know the answer too unless I make it blatently clear I'm on a wind-up.
P.S. So far I've relied on others being on the lift and copying what they do - and hoping that doesn't involve leaping from 30ft up!! Is there a knack to moving the bar up and down - it doesn't seem to move quickly and its flippin' frightening until I get it down.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Megamum, there's always a sign (at least, on any lifts I've ridden recently) indicating when to put the bar up (often around the last but one pylon, and useful in bad vis when you can't see how much further there is to go). One of my nephews went up a lift a couple of chairs ahead of me a few weeks ago, and the chair stopped when they were out of site over the top. He's an extremely competent skier and I thought it was unlikely he'd fallen. I discovered he had got the straps of his salopettes hooked up somehow, so that when he got off the chair he got what he described as "a stupendous wedgie". He said the liftie was laughing too hard to stop the lift for a few moments....or maybe he was enjoying the spectacle.
Ski school kids on lifts can be unnerving. I think it is reasonable for beginner skiers (or most levels of snowboarders!) to politely decline to accompany them; just explain that you are a beginner.
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| Quote: |
Is there a knack to moving the bar up and down - it doesn't seem to move quickly and its flippin' frightening until I get it down.
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they are not all the same; some have a mind of their own and can come down too quickly, of their own volition. Some people are careless, too, and pull them down (or lift them at the end) without checking whether everyone is ready. But remember, the design of the chairs is such that if you are sitting well back (take off any back packs) and not wriggling round like a 6 year old who needs a pee, you won't fall out.
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Some of the modern 6 or 8 man chairs have bars that are quite heavy....and can be difficult if you are riding alone.
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Megamum, Honest, there's usually a pictorial sign showing you when the bar should be lifted. That said, I always lift the bar far earlier than that, given half a chance, as I am more scared of getting stuck than falling off. It is true that some bars are heavier than others: as I am only little, I have sometimes been unable to pull the bar down when riding a chairlift on my own - in which case, it's advisable to hang on tightly to the hand rail! Again, for no logical reason, it scares me even more when I can't - if you'll forgive the expression - get it up at the other end. BTW, there are usually little pictures telling you where to get off T-bars: I was so engrossed in a conversation just the other week in Verbier, that I failed to see either the sign, or the end of the lift. It was not my finest moment digging my ski tips into a huge bank of snow several seconds after my puzzled companion had already bailed out. Dangerous business, skiing, and that's just the uphill bit.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, I'll look out for the signs - thank you. I took the children on the lift this year (the 4 yr old for the 1st time). I think the liftie must have slowed it down for me which helped, but even with the bar I made quite sure I had my arm around a child on each side of me.
I can see the problem of bad viz too. I must confess I was not overboard about even doing the button lift and skiing the little slope in the fog - it got real foggy one day, I can imagine what the chair lift must have been like.
I haven't been often enough to know if fog is often a problem in the alps, but know I didn't like it. It seemed to make everything more dangerous and once you lost sight of other skiers on the slope I felt quite isolated (it was that day I twisted my knee which didn't help the confidence). I was only about 200m up the slope, but wasn't happy.
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| Quote: |
| i remember years ago being on the west wall chair on cairngorm when it had been stopped for around 20 minutes, the two guys on the chair in front lifted the bar and jumped off [only 12-15feet i guess] shame that both of them were wearing race bibs with numbers on as they were on the early part of the first week of a two week BASI course, the trainer happened to be on the chair a couple back...saw them, wrote the numbers down confronted them in front of their entire group and sent them home for stupidity.... no refund |
Esp if they were only wearing racing suits, its not hard to imagine days when sitting for 20minutes on the West Wall chair would be infinately higher in the stupidity stakes than jumping....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| CEM wrote: |
i remember years ago being on the west wall chair on cairngorm when it had been stopped for around 20 minutes, the two guys on the chair in front lifted the bar and jumped off [only 12-15feet i guess] shame that both of them were wearing race bibs with numbers on as they were on the early part of the first week of a two week BASI course, the trainer happened to be on the chair a couple back...saw them, wrote the numbers down confronted them in front of their entire group and sent them home for stupidity.... no refund
expensive day out for the both of them |
isn't that part of the course? 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Winterhighland, no race suits just race bib over normal jacket etc. for identification purposes on the course....not quite what they planed
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| pam w wrote: |
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On a more serious note I beleive the Piste Patrol allowed him to waive treatment and get off the hill on his own, if this is the case then that is very poor.
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No, if someone who appears to know his own mind refuses treatment, then even if a doctor tells them they will die without treatment, they cannot be treated against their will. It would be assault. I can't see that a lift operator or piste patroller can insist, if the person concerned refused treatment. And yes, he probably did feel very foolish and wanted to get the hell out of there asap. It may be daft, but it's his right (and maybe he wasn't insured and didn't like the thought of having to pay!!!). |
can the doctor make a judgement call and force the someone to remain still and await treatment
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You know it makes sense.
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You can strongly advise someone to wait and receive medical assistance, but you sure can't make them, that's false imprisonment.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Megamum,
There are many types of chairs... some really old ones you have to sit sideways and hold the skis on your lap......the liftie will supervise this and they are so old you will not see many.....at all
Mostly, lifts are from 2-8 seaters and the more modern ones have gearing to slow down at the pick-up and get-off points. You can pretty well relax and just wait for these to collect you. Older chairs, will be on a one speed and that speed can be quite high for picks ups.... you have to grab the chair and ease your self onto it. If you just wait to be collected it may give you a nasty biff in the calves. I always grab the side or seat of these chairs to lessen the impact. As for the rule of the bar...all in europe have them, TMK, although in the U.S, they might have some without bars...!!!!! You can leave the lifting of the bar almost until you come into land....say, 2-3 mtrs, if you want, but you might get others wanting to lift the bar 50mtrs out.... if they look like raising the bar too early for your comfort..just leave your feet on the footrests and they will not be able to lift it....
After a few go's these things sort themselves out.
And if the bar is up too early you can always have an arm over the back of the seat which will balance you properly and you can't really fall off then....
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Poster: A snowHead
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i like the conveyer belt ones that go nice n fast.. you think your about the career off the end when some two man thing made from coat hangers for 9 stone teenagers smacks you from behind at 20 mph!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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CANV CANVINGTON,
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can the doctor make a judgement call and force the someone to remain still and await treatment
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If the injury/illness appears to be impairing their judgement I think the answer is yes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CANV CANVINGTON, particularly nasty ones on Rendl side of St Anton, not only do they try to break your legs but they try to chuck you off with a pendulum/catapult effect before you can get the bar down 
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Has anyone else noticed how, in France, the lifties tend to pile snow on to the chair just before you get on when it's snowing, rather than brush it off? (I love France, BTW.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I haven't been often enough to know if fog is often a problem in the alps, but know I didn't like it.
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you're not alone, Megamum, I don't think anybody likes poor visibility. Even when you know the slopes well, and are a confident skier, it is very easy to get disorientated. They do say it's good for your skiing though, because you have to keep your weight low, keep your speed down and "feel through your feet" for those dips and bumps and lumps which you would normally be able to see. Tell yourself that, next time! It's good practice, on a normal vis day, on a really easy slope with nobody in front of you, to do some turns with eyes closed (i.e like a blind skier). Same effect. But it's really, really, hard not to cheat and just squint a little with one eye!
Very often poor vis goes with great new snow - essentially the mountains are up in the clouds. Maybe if you think about it as cloud, rather than fog, it seems less threatening. Or maybe not.
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| Quote: |
Quote:
can the doctor make a judgement call and force the someone to remain still and await treatment
if the injury/illness appears to be impairing their judgement I think the answer is yes.
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Even a fully qualified doctor would need very clear evidence of impaired judgement, and would probably also want a qualified second opinion, to physically force someone to wait. He/she might also need to be extremely strong, or enlist a posse of passing lardy skiers, to sit on top of them till the straight-jacket arrived.
I guess the commonsensical solution would be strongly to advise the person concerned to await medical attention (in front of witnesses) and ask him to sign a disclaimer of some kind (like discharging yourself from hospital) if he decided to ski off. This is an extremely complex and fraught area of medical ethics and legal precedents, and it's hard to see how a liftie could possibly be expected to do more than give clear advice and offer to send for help.
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pam w, And the law on these matters is not the same in every country, just to complicate the issue!
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Bring back Pomas - they're just so much safer ! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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pam w, what if the injured person was obviously concussed or not in control of their faculties? I have seen rugby players 'restrained' when concussed and unable to walk in a straight line.
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rayscoops, some of the rugby players I knew in the past spent quite a lot of time unable to walk in a straight line... all a matter of judgement, obviously, but in general I still think it is unreasonable to expect a non medically qualified liftie to argue the toss with a punter who has fallen off a chairlift but seems OK to the naked eye and doesn't want to wait around for medical attention to arrive. There was no suggestion here that the guy was obviously concussed or otherwise badly affected by the fall. Just felt like an idiot.... Sometimes you just have to let adults make decisions for themselves, even if you think they are poor ones.
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