 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi gang.
Has anyone got any info/recommendations on ski schools in Whistler. From my research I can only find stuff on various courses run by the 'official' ski school, which are all listed here:
http://www.whistlerblackcomb.com/rentals/school/index.htm
but nothing on any alternative or independent schools. The official courses are VERY expensive (160 quid for a 3 hour private lesson!). I'm off there in two weeks for 10 days, and was hpoing to have 3 or 4 half days of private tuition, but can't really stretch to £640 for the privilege.
Any thoughts?
Cheers,
Dave
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Dave Burt, AFAIK, there is no choice but the official ski schools. Both the Dave Murray downhill and the Extremely Canadian are expensive, but very good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Alternatively the Supergroups program on Blackcomb has a maximum class size of 3. Lots of highly focussed individual feedback and attention.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks chaps. Still a bit confused - are the Dave Murray Ski Camp and Extremely Canadian both independent schools, whilst all the other courses, including 'Supergroups' and 'Ski Esprit', are run by the 'official' school? None of them, including Dave Murray and Extremely Canadian, seem to be bookable or contactable other than via the Whistler web site - which suggests that they are all 'official'. They are also listed as "Whistler Blackcomb Ski & Board School". 
And if they are the only Schools, at those prices there must be a massive gap in the market for an Easiski or someone to come along and make a killing!
Anyway, the Dave Murray camp seems very cheap compared to the 'Supergroups':
Half day private lesson: $399 = c. £175
3 days private lesson: $1,767 = c. £773
Summit Ski, 1 day group lesson: $109 = c. £48
Summit Ski, 3 days group lessons: $327 = c. £143
Supergroups, 1 day small group lesson: $259 = c. £113
Supergroups, 3 days small group lessons: $777 = c. £339
Ski Esprit, 3 days group lessons: $329 = c. £144
Dave Murray Ski Camp, 3 day group lessons: $349 = c. £153
Extremely Canadian, 2 days group lessons: $399 = c. £175
veeeight, do you know what the difference is between the 'Summit Ski' and the 'Ski Esprit' programmes (apart from $2!)?
Kramer, have you ever been with the Dave Murray Ski Camp? Any recommendations? Any idea what the format is? I had a week with Warren Smith in the summer and I would really like to carry on in the same vane ...
Cheers guys.
Dave
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Dave Burt, the Dave Murray one will be more "on piste" than the Extremely Canadian one, so, depending on what you are wanting to focus on, choose the course.
Oh, and yes, all the others are run by the main ski school.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wear The Fox Hat, long time no see. Cheers for that. Think I'll go for the Dave Murray course.
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Dave Burt, likewise - too long!
DM should be similar to WS I suspect.
I also know that if the conditions were right, you would have a blast with the Extremely crew. (One of the coaches the year I did it was heard telling her group "now, if you are going to follow me off this next cliff, make sure you time your jump right to miss the gondola")
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I did 'ski esprit' last week in Whistler and was not impressed!
My wife moved down a group (to level 4) during the week because the original instructor gave virtually no feedback. The instructor was very young and she seemed inexperienced although a superb skier. The other instructor was the same. She would give the group an exercise to do and when we skied down to her she wouldn't bother telling anyone what they were doing right or wrong and would simply move on to the next thing. It was like trying to get blood out of a stone. Both instructors were asked several times by different members of the group things like "was that ok" and "What am I doing wrong" without much success.
In the bar the second instructor revealed that she 'blagged' an instructor's course after only one week of skiing experience and is now teaching at Whistler! She also said that she's not a regular instructor and that she's called in when they need her. She was a good skier but her instructing was very suspect. My brother injured his knee during one of these lessons when he skied deep powder for the first time. Ok anyone can get injured but when it was made known to her that half of the group had never skied deep snow before, the introduction to deep snow could have been made on something other than a black run! There was plenty of deep snow on shallower pitches for them to have practiced on first.
Ski Esprit is probably the worst instruction I've ever had! I am really surprised, I thought instruction at Whistler would be of a very high standard. Maybe we were just unlucky and all of the other instructors are great but I have to make my judgement on the two that I saw and they were very poor!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave Burt, the Dave Murray is the more technical of the courses. In theory it is more piste based, however if there's lots of powder around, that's where they'll take you. It's very good. We were in a group of four with one instructor.
Extremely Canadian is worth a go as well. It's totally off piste orientated, and they'll really push you outside your comfort zone, however it's a lot of fun if you're up for it.
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boris360, my understanding of the Ski Espirit is that it is where the less experienced instructors teach, as the standard of pupil is meant to be a bit higher. I have to say I was surprised at the level of skiing of some of the instructors with the standard ski school in Whistler, and not impressed.
Dave Burt, Whistler is an Intrawest resort. Everything in the resort goes through Intrawest, hence no independent instructors.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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boris360 - my understanding of the Ski Espirit is that its design to low on the intensity of instruction compared to other courses run.
Dave Murry course is really good couldn't recommend it more, its “awesome” as the Canadians would say !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Dave Murry course is really good couldn't recommend it more, its “awesome” as the Canadians would say !
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Dave Burt
I did Dave Murry last week and as lamberton has said it was 'Awesome Dude!'
IMHO it's one of the best value money courses you can do, my wife did level 4 with Jan and I did level 5 with Leslie who I can't recommend highly enough - a totally fantastic coach, we had a group of 7 and she managed to provide consistent focused feedback to each of our group. As others have said the itinerary largely depends on the snow conditions, there is nominally a gate training element with a 'fun' GS race organised on the last day. The focus is on running gates for technique ie the intention being not to turn you into an FIS racer. We had great snow for all 3 days so we spent maybe 4-5 runs in the stubbies and the rest of the time was off piste in the Whislter, Glacier and Harmony Bowls and bumps. This was my fist time in Whistler and I did terrain on the camp that I would never had the gut's to attempt / have found on my own.
I also did a one day supergroup and whilst I think this was also great, our Italian instructor did some interesting things with masking tape and our goggles! I feel that the 3 days of the Dave Murry Camp allow you to build on your technique and the apres element is the icing on the cake, I met some great people and will defiantly be signing up to Dave Murry again when I go back to Whistler!
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I also did a one day supergroup and whilst I think this was also great, our Italian instructor did some interesting things with masking tape and our goggles! I
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You skied with my buddy Oreste then! 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Dave Burt wrote: |
Thanks chaps. Still a bit confused - are the Dave Murray Ski Camp and Extremely Canadian both independent schools, whilst all the other courses, including 'Supergroups' and 'Ski Esprit', are run by the 'official' school?
And if they are the only Schools, at those prices there must be a massive gap in the market for an Easiski or someone to come along and make a killing! |
All programs have their instructors/coaches provided by the Whistler Blackcomb Ski School. We just wear different jackets depending which program we work for.
Easiski would not be able to set up operations at WB.
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Anyway, the Dave Murray camp seems very cheap compared to the 'Supergroups':
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Yes, DM Camp will be a group size of 8 (average), Supergroup is max of 3.
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veeeight, do you know what the difference is between the 'Summit Ski' and the 'Ski Esprit' programmes (apart from $2!)? |
Different emphasis. Summit Ski if you want technical and tactical improvement, whilst seeing the mountain, Ski Esprit is more of a guiding program, with some ski tips, with emphasis on the Apres Ski.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| boris360 wrote: |
I did 'ski esprit' last week in Whistler and was not impressed!
Ski Esprit is probably the worst instruction I've ever had! I am really surprised, I thought instruction at Whistler would be of a very high standard. Maybe we were just unlucky and all of the other instructors are great but I have to make my judgement on the two that I saw and they were very poor! |
boris360 Please write/email and complain. That is not acceptable, and need addressing.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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veeeight, yes, the Supergroups are a max of 3 but then it's only for one day. What I love about DM camps and Esprit is that you ski with the same people for a few days. You're just getting to know your fellow campers after day 1 and day 2 is usually when the barriers break down a bit more and you start laughing at each other - e.g. on powder days practising barrel rolls! In saying that I would still like to try out Supergroups but probably coerce a couple of friends along too. I also agree with BG, that the DM camp is extremely good value given the level of the coaching available. Much better value than private lessons in Whistler IMHO. Private lessons are just there to bring in the $$$ for Intrawest as there is such a big discrepancy between what is charged and what the instructors actually earn. Again IMHO, that is why they are so heavily pushed at the visitors.
boris360, I'm sorry to hear that you had such a disappointing time with Ski Esprit. It's not the Esprit that I remember. I agree with veeeight, and definitely think you should write to the head of the ski school about what you experienced.
Edited for spelling
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Sun 18-03-07 21:24; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I heard that you can book private lessons through Dave Murray, and they come out cheaper by about 100 dollars. I think you have to book with the Dave Murray guys directly though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Wow, thanks all, that's a really comprehensive and helpful answer! The Dave Murray course sounds like a lot of fun so I think I'll stick with that, plus maybe a day with a 'Supergroup'.
I'm surprised that the offical ski school has an absolute monopoly - I thought North America was really into competition and the free market. Could someone be prosecuted if they opened up a rival school?
And does anyone know anything about these guys?:
http://www.ultimateski.com/about/index.shtml
Their website implies that they are an independent school based at Whistler. Can this be right?
Cheers,
Dave
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know those two - they work with me at (the official) Ski School. They are just advertising their services, but all bookings are made through the official ski school.
Trust me on this one, there is no independent ski school based at this resort.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Dave Burt,
Its standard for Intrawest - there is no way they woudl let competitors have access. If they own the mountain (I guess they do) then it's up to them who they give access to, and it certainly wouldn't be competitors.
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veeeight, thanks. No lack of trust I assure you, just an interest in how it all works as its very different to what I'm used to.
The 'Ultimate Ski' website would therefore seem to be somewhat misleading!
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holidayloverxx, I suppose that makes sense, but can Intrawest really own a whole mountain?! I'd always thought the mountains were owned by the local council or a farmer, and then leased to lift operators, restaurant owners, shops, ski schools etc. And how is it different in Europe - who owns, say, Val D'Isere?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Dave Burt,
dunno about Europe - but look on any number of websites and it says Intrawest "owns" a lot of mountains - maybe the poor ole farmers sold out?
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holidayloverxx, maybe they did, but I still don't really understand how a company like Intrawest can prohibit competition. For example Intrawest 'owns' Les Arcs 1950, but it certainly doesn't own the ESF in Les Arcs (does it?!) and couldn't stop me setting up Dave's Ski School could it?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Dave Burt,
I see it as "this is my land and I say who can come on it". Is it any different to somebody walking into selfridges with a stall and trying to set up on their ground floor? There's nothing stopping the stall setting up outside (competition) just not on the land that Selfridges owns.
I don't know how Arcs 1950 works - they may have done a deal with ESF which is favourable.
I'd be interested to hear from someone who actually knows rather than me prattling on.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave Burt wrote: |
| holidayloverxx, maybe they did, but I still don't really understand how a company like Intrawest can prohibit competition. For example Intrawest 'owns' Les Arcs 1950, but it certainly doesn't own the ESF in Les Arcs (does it?!) and couldn't stop me setting up Dave's Ski School could it? |
Intrawest is the property developer for Arc 1950 and presumably lease office space to Spirit 1950 (the one ski school with a base in that village). As far as I'm aware they have no financial interest in any of the several other ski schools/independent instructors who operate in Les Arcs. So in that sense things are very different to how Intrawest operate in North America.
I think Intrawest have a large stake in CdA which is the majority shareholder in the SMA lift company which operates most of the lift network/piste maintenance for Les Arcs (and several other resorts).
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| geetee wrote: |
boris360, I'm sorry to hear that you had such a disappointing time with Ski Esprit. It's not the Esprit that I remember. I agree with veeeight, and definitely think you should write to the head of the ski school about what you experienced.
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Agreed. I had a great time with Ski Esprit a few years ago. Sounds like you were unlucky with a rogue instructor.
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You know it makes sense.
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boris360 - when we've gone to Whistler we've done both Ski Esprit and Dave Murrey - both have been great.
But MrsPhillipStanton did have a bad experience in one of her Esprit groups and complained on the third day. The customer service couldn't be faulted - an apology was given, the course fee refunded and she was given a replacement course for free.
Write and complain.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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boris360, do you remember the instructors names?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'm surprised that the offical ski school has an absolute monopoly - I thought North America was really into competition and the free market. Could someone be prosecuted if they opened up a rival school?
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I suppose that makes sense, but can Intrawest really own a whole mountain?! I'd always thought the mountains were owned by the local council or a farmer, and then leased to lift operators, restaurant owners, shops, ski schools etc.
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What you are asking for is akin to Ford saying "no" to Toyota or Renault building their cars in one of Ford's plants. Quite reasonable, really, for Ford to refuse permission.
Or if you owned a private golf club, and had resident golf pros. I don't think you'd allow outside pros to come onto your course/club and teach.....
To cut an extremely long story short, the ski area is on Crown Land, which was previously granted logging rights, and Intrawest has a 99 year lease on this land. Most importantly, one of the clauses of the lease states that Intrawest has full control over all commercial activity on the ski area and leased land. So all the restaurants, retail, services provided, lifts etc. on the ski area are owned and controlled by Intrawest.
However not all the ski area is part of the lease, the Blackcomb Glacier is part of the Provincial Park and as such Intrawest has a seperate arrangement with the Provincial Government regarding use of this area.
One of the huge advantages to Intrawest controlling much of the services is that under this one umbrella, everyone is empowered to ensure a much higher standard of customer service and satisfaction - it all works cohesively, for example, if you, as my ski school client, were to have a bad experience in a restaurant or other area, I am empowered to fix it for you instead of shrugging my shoulders, or saying that it's not my problem/issue/area of responsibility.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
One of the huge advantages to Intrawest controlling much of the services is that under this one umbrella, everyone is empowered to ensure a much higher standard of customer service and satisfaction - it all works cohesively, for example, if you, as my ski school client, were to have a bad experience in a restaurant or other area, I am empowered to fix it for you instead of shrugging my shoulders, or saying that it's not my problem/issue/area of responsibility.
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This was my first time in Whistler (defiantly won't be my last  ) and I agree that Intrawest's high degree of control no doubt coupled with a generous dose of Canadian hospitality has allowed them to ensure an extraordinary degree of cohesion, the accommodation, ski school, free guiding, restaurant's etc all 'work' effectively to provide a relatively seamless and hassle free experience.
Yes Whistler lacks 500 odd years of Alpine history, you won't find any authentic rustic cow sheds and the mountain restaurants whilst being reasonably priced lack the charm and choice you'll find in Europe. However the village architecture is sympathetic and they've managed to avoid both the 'Disney toy town' or 'Tower Block' architecture (Tignes take note!) that so many have fell foul of.
Veeeight - on a separate note, can I ask what your connection is to dempseytours? (as I see the link there on the bottom of your posts). I'm toying with the idea of taking a sabbatical in order to do a season next year and in order to provide a degree of structure was considering doing my BASI 3 (in Europe). However visiting Whistler has opened to my eyes with regard to the attractions of a CSIA qualification in Canada, (friendly people, good snow and relative peace and quiet to name but a few). How specifically do they operate with regard to offering coaching / instruction on their instructor training courses? If as I understand it Intrawest have a monopoly on ski instruction how do Dempsey's manage to offer coaching outside of this set up? or do they subcontract it all to WB ski school?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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BG, Mike Dempsey has been operating for 24 years, and was invited by Intrawest in Whistler/Blackcomb many years ago to run his tours/camps in WB. For that to happen Mr. Dempsey insisted that he had first call on any instructor/coach on the WB Ski School Staff (only CSIA Level4's coach Dempsey courses) to work on his programmes. As a result the pros that work on Dempsey programmes are long term hand picked pros.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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BG,
Yes Improvement also do similar/same.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Veeight, Stuarth thanks for the pointers. I took another look at Dempsey's website and upon closer inspection it's all there in black and white 
All looks very tempting......
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not sure if this is too late, but we had the 5 day course with Ski Esprit, and it was excellent. Had an Aussie instructor and learnt more in the first day than I have in the last 5 years. The organised Apres sessions at the end of each day are a great idea too.
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BG, CSIA courses up to level 3 can be taken in Soldeu Andorra, but you need to start with the level 1 first no matter how good a skier you are. CSIA fly their course conductors over to Andorra for the courses, although last season there was one course conductor there for the whole season. Just thought someone might be interested.
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jab10001, Glad you had a fun time!
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FAQ
). He was pretty good though and we certainly got some interesting looks whilst bypassing the lift queues 