 Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
The number of people caught trying to use someone else’s ski pass this winter is on pace to double. Vail police and Vail Resorts attribute the increase to alert employees and a jump in pass sales.
Improved training for scanners and the pass’ larger photo are also making it harder to get away with skiing with someone else's pass, Brown said.
She confirmed that Vail Resorts offers employees a financial incentive to catch violators, but would not disclose the amount.
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The article:
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20070207/NEWS/70207010
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Nothing to do with a fortnight's pass in Vail costing about the same as 3 bedroom house, then.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I do not condone criminal behaviour. however, I suspect that the astronomical cost of US Ski Passes has something to do with it.
I have bought this up befoe on a similar subject.
Why does it seem to need 6-8 ski company employees to operate one 1 chairlift ?
Ticket checking can be fully or automated with barriers or even done away with like in some Major Swiss resorts like Verbier where they just do random checks & hand out HUGE fines as a deterent.
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It's partly becasue in North America, ski resorts emply a *LOT* of people to run lifts as
1) it creates more employment
2) it stops the huge funnel shaped wedges leading into lifts that you find in europe
3) it means that most lifts are filled, reducing queuing times, unlike europe where thanks to the queue (see above, people become separated from their mates and wait just behind the chair until their mates make it through
HTH. HAND.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just to point out, as I did in a recent thread, lift passes in the US resorts are NOT astronomical, if you buy them properly!
...but please keep the myth going so the slopes stay as crowd-free as they currently are!
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Just to point out, as I did in a recent thread, lift passes in the US resorts are NOT astronomical, if you buy them properly!
...but please keep the myth going so the slopes stay as crowd-free as they currently are! |
OK .
Lets do it like for like. Lets waive the current dollar/euro/pound exchange rate, historically they have been much higher.
US turnup at counter prices are HIGH compared to Euro turnup prices.
I know you can buy tickets in local towns at discount but these tickets are limted in number.
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stanton, I've yet to go to a shop and find them sold out, but yes, if you pay full price for a one day ticket at the window, you will pay more.
Equally, you can get a Season Pass for Winter Park, for example, for about GBP100. (which also gets you disount in local shops/restaurants)
And unlike Switzerland, in your other thread, Winter Park is not about to close due to lack of snow! 
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| nbt wrote: |
It's partly becasue in North America, ski resorts emply a *LOT* of people to run lifts as
1) it creates more employment
2) it stops the huge funnel shaped wedges leading into lifts that you find in europe
3) it means that most lifts are filled, reducing queuing times, unlike europe where thanks to the queue (see above, people become separated from their mates and wait just behind the chair until their mates make it through
HTH. HAND. |
1) it creates more employment
>> & High Ticket Prices thus restricting people on lesser means the opportunity to ski .
2) it stops the huge funnel shaped wedges leading into lifts that you find in europe , This is an old & tired argument.
>>I'd rather payless . These funnels do not take long & its just normal. You need to master these funnels & you be surprised how quick your at the front  Plus also this is normally only a Peak Season problem.
3) it means that most lifts are filled, reducing queuing times, unlike europe where thanks to the queue (see above, people become separated from their mates and wait just behind the chair until their mates make it through
>>So you wait a few minutes, everyone does, what the big deal ? Your friend or mate is not going away , there be on the next chair . You may even meet a new mate on your own chair
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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You're right, as always, Stanton. It's far better to stand around in a scrum, having people trash the tops of your skis, before the poor snow coverage trashes the bases.
But still, I'll remain one of the stupid people who is prepared to pay 25 quid a day for a 4 resort pass at Aspen, and miss out on all the busy slopes/busy queues fun...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Even at £30+ a day to ski good fresh snow in N America I agree its better value than £20 a day (over a 6 day pass) to ski man made or 2 week old hardpack in Europe. Vail want to have exhorbitant lift passes as they feel it adds to the prestige of what would otherwise be a fairly ordinary resort.
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fatbob
Its not allways Powder in North America. They get hardpack too.
If you can ski HardPack,Ice,Crud + Arlberg Powder you be able to ski any Powder in the World It doesnt allways work the other way round
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You know it makes sense.
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Wear The Fox Hat, the point is that the Vail pass is (I think) the most expensive in US, and that is probably true however you buy it. Whether or not it's expensive compared to Europe is not relevant to whether naughty Americans think it's a good wheeze to cheat.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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richmond, yes, the ticket window full price is the most expensive in the US, but you can get bigger discounts off it than some of the smaller resorts, so it isn't necessarily the most expensive based on the price most people pay for it.
And I agree, it's not a good idea to cheat/break the law.
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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Remember that your ticket in a US resort gives you access to the whole ski area which is potrolled and avalanche controlled, both groomed runs and off piste. You are also covered for rescue by the ski patroll anywhere within the Ski area boundary.
In Europe only the pistes are avalanche controlled venture off them and you may be entering an avalance risk area and there is no patrol or rescue on or off piste unless you or you insurance pay for it.
There are lots of people running the lift lines, most are young guys and girls who get to spend a season out in the resort but are paid very little apart from getting food allowance and maybe accomodation. You couldn't afford it in France at union rates!
A 6 day PDS pass last week cost me 184 Euro = £125 aprox, I bought a weekday season pass for Kirkwood Ca for $199 = £110. 6 days worth of Snowbird Tram & Chair tickets bought from the sports shop on the Cottonwood Canyon road will work out at about £185, so we are not talking astronomical prices and usually vastly better snow conditions, groomed pistes are maintained to a much higher standard (not that I spend much time on them if I can help it), service, lift queues.
I fail to see what is the big deal about using someone elses pass. If you have a season pass you are entitled to ski every day it is valid if you can't use it that day why not someone else the usage has already been paid for.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| bloxy wrote: |
| .......... I fail to see what is the big deal about using someone elses pass. If you have a season pass you are entitled to ski every day it is valid if you can't use it that day why not someone else the usage has already been paid for. |
The big deal is that you are knowingly breaching the terms under which the ticket was sold, and enabling someone to have a service he has not paid for. Season tickets are not sold so that you can have scam undermining the short-duration tickets. The lift company makes budgeting assumptions based on experience of average daily use of a season ticket. If season tickets became "open house" there would be little point in selling them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| stanton wrote: |
fatbob
Its not allways Powder in North America. They get hardpack too.
If you can ski HardPack,Ice,Crud + Arlberg Powder you be able to ski any Powder in the World It doesnt allways work the other way round |
Yep I'm well aware of this & hence this season have regarded my 3 trips to europe so far as "skills building". I just find that of all the reasons people have for justifying their preferences the pass price differential is somewhat pathetic given the amount of other expenditure that occurs around a ski holiday.
I've just been on a brief trip to France with some work colleagues and was outraged at the extortionate price, draconian T&C and sneaky add ons for a 7 bed appartment which was not much bigger than a bedroom in North America.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| stanton wrote: |
fatbob
Its not allways Powder in North America. They get hardpack too.
If you can ski HardPack,Ice,Crud + Arlberg Powder you be able to ski any Powder in the World It doesnt allways work the other way round |
Yep I'm well aware of this & hence this season have regarded my 3 trips to europe so far as "skills building". I just find that of all the reasons people have for justifying their preferences the pass price differential is somewhat pathetic given the amount of other expenditure that occurs around a ski holiday.
I've just been on a brief trip to France with some work colleagues and was outraged at the extortionate price, draconian T&C and sneaky add ons for a 7 bed appartment which was not much bigger than a bedroom in North America. |
Accomodation is expensive as well in the US as all prices are based on Double occupancy. Even then its expensive to Austria.
Try findng a B&B for 35euros in Aspen or Vail ?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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stanton, it's easier if you have friends!
Aspen, close to the slopes (2 min walk), $100 a night B&B for the room. If you have 2 people in it (hey its got 2 double beds, so it's not like an "Austrian twin", but is actually two full size seperate beds), that's about €35 per person per night - oh, and there's a hot tub, pool & free internet included.
Salt Lake, under $60 a night for the same sort of thing.
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Is that Peak Season price as well ?
I know Aspen very well.
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stanton, that was 2 weeks ago at the Pokolodi.
For me, it's a lot easier with the US where the price you see advertised is the price you pay, rather than the price you see being the price based on 4 sharing, and if you aren't one of four people then you end up paying hefty supplements.
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And I've never had in the US -
"You want to pick up your key after 5pm? that will be an extra £30"
"You want towels and sheets? - €10 per person"
"You want to park outside the hotel in which you are staying, in the hotel's car park? There's a charge for that."
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Some good ideas there 
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[quote="Wear The Fox Hat"]stanton, that was 2 weeks ago at the Pokolodi.quote]
OK thats off-season
I know the place
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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We have a two bedroom suite booked in Salt Lake City in March, located just at the start of the road upto the Cottonwood Canyons, 2 large en suite bedrooms, each with a TV, separate lounge with sofas and TV, kithenette and dining table, complimentary hot and cold buffet breakfast, complementary apres ski snacks and beers, heated swimming pool, hot tub, parking right outside, free high speed internet access. $299 per night, that is $74.75 pp which is 57 Euro.
The US is so expensive and poor value compared to Europe 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| fatbob wrote: |
And I've never had in the US -
"You want to pick up your key after 5pm? that will be an extra £30"
"You want towels and sheets? - €10 per person"
"You want to park outside the hotel in which you are staying, in the hotel's car park? There's a charge for that." |
I do not know where you ski?
I,ve never had that in Europe or any of the places ronud the world I have skied at.
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| bloxy wrote: |
We have a two bedroom suite booked in Salt Lake City in March, located just at the start of the road upto the Cottonwood Canyons, 2 large en suite bedrooms, each with a TV, separate lounge with sofas and TV, kithenette and dining table, complimentary hot and cold buffet breakfast, complementary apres ski snacks and beers, heated swimming pool, hot tub, parking right outside, free high speed internet access. $299 per night, that is $74.75 pp which is 57 Euro.
The US is so expensive and poor value compared to Europe |
Your basing your calcualtions on extrodinary good exchange rates of the last few months, it has not allways been like that.
Dont forget you have to get there , rent a car (normally).
Dont you think Hotels in Austria,Switzerland have Swimming Pools , Saunas,Spa,s apres ski food , high speed internet & there not that expensive 
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You know it makes sense.
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Thats it folks
gone Skiing
Shouldnt forget to add that the Pokolodi is in Snowmass Village not downtown Aspen , theres a BIG difference.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| stanton wrote: |
| fatbob wrote: |
And I've never had in the US -
"You want to pick up your key after 5pm? that will be an extra £30"
"You want towels and sheets? - €10 per person"
"You want to park outside the hotel in which you are staying, in the hotel's car park? There's a charge for that." |
I do not know where you ski?
I,ve never had that in Europe or any of the places ronud the world I have skied at. |
You've never rented an appartment in France? The first 2, Chamonix last week (may be the "entrepeneurial" agency of course).
The latter Engelberg a couple of weeks before , admittedly a new innovation this season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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achilles, i live in lincoln - i wondered who frequented this rather dingy looking "club" !!! were the people who used to run it, until recently, called chris & Beth ?? if so they used to run my local in Scothern. small world , eh !
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I was just in Les Arcs and on one lift I had to hang back only just though the automated gate as the person in front of me was preventing me from moving forwards. It may have looked as if I was handing my pass back to the person behind me as a lift operator then walked over and asked to inspect my pass. It's the first time I've ever seen anything like this happen.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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bloxy
bloxy
Guest
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| stanton wrote: |
Your basing your calcualtions on extrodinary good exchange rates of the last few months, it has not allways been like that.
Dont forget you have to get there , rent a car (normally).
Dont you think Hotels in Austria,Switzerland have Swimming Pools , Saunas,Spa,s apres ski food , high speed internet & there not that expensive |
The $ exchange rate is good which makes it extraordinarily good value! It's pointless to say it would not be so if the exchange rate were poor. We are living in the present not the past or some using some hypothetical exchange rate! It is hardly a valid argument to substantiate a claim that accommodation in the USA is expensive
I am sure some of the more expensive hotels provide all those services, but are they complimentary? Can you you get a comparable suite suite for a similar price? I think not. You will pay 51 Euro (45 Euro plus 6 Euro for breakfast) at a Campanille motorway hotel in France. A tiny cupboard sized apartment in Avoriaz for 4 people is a lot more expensive.
Yes you have to get there and whilst transatlantic fares are now close to what European fare were 10-15 yaers ago European fares can be had cheaply, if you chose to travel further it tends to cost you more.
Yes I will hire a vehicle because I like to have the freedom of personal transport but it is perfectly possible to do without. The hotels often provide a free shuttle bus within a defined distance if you want to get anywhere locally, there are free ski shuttle buses run by the resorts and the hotel provides a free shuttle service to the bus stops for those buses.
I am not trying to indulge in a Europe is better than US argument but just pointing out that to decry Skiing in the USA on the grounds of expense is fataly flawed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I find it rather strange that letting someone use your ski pass which you have paid for but are not using could be considered to be fraud or criminal activity. By the same token if I let someone drive my car. which I have paid the road tax for are they comitting road tax fraud?
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pistemeister, I think the analogy may be closer to that of 'lending' someone your Gym membership card. It's against the T&C's under which the ticket was sold to you and which you accepted at the time.
P.S. Got bored with the gym again, anyone want to 'borrow' my membership as it has 4 months to run?
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It's funny everyone is bashing Vail. Well, don't go there then!
It's NOT the best in N.America. It's purposely expensive to maintain its "prestige", which, in the eye of most real skiers, has none.
There're many other ski areas that are cheaper and has other merits OVER Vail. $ of them just down the road from Vail!
But "borrowing" someone else's pass is basically stealing.
Do we all do that on a small scale, especially when the opportunity present itself? Probably. But is it something to brag about and JUSTIFY it being right? I think not.
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FAQ
Only Front Range Colorado & Cascades have done reasonably well this season (so far).
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