 Poster: A snowHead
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Having being the victim of a collision last week in hemsedal, a snowboarder crashing into the back of me while i was skiing down a piste with resultant injuries that have ruined the next 3 months. the discussion with the pisteur while waiting for the ambulance seemed to indicate that this was a very common incident (ie. collisons, not particular groups) he just shook his head and said people travel too fast, which in the short time i did ski there seemed to be evident, lots of people on easy and very busy runs going rather quickly, with the blacks empty.
If i hurt myself, well it is my mistake, but to be hurt by the actions of someone else is a little annoying. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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no.. touch wood,,  i'd like to think my 15 stone of solid muscle (cough) would help . weight must be your friend in any stack..
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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sorry colision .. not stack quite the opposite there i would think
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just before I left Morillon - I was asked to fill in a very official looking questionnaire which among other things, asked several questions regarding the supervision of the runs by resort officials - so the issue of speed/recklessness is obviously a problem which may be addressed - in france anyway.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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HAd same style accident to carroz and was knocked off piste in st anton, but fortunately only down a metre drop into soft snow and with no injury than to my pride. My 15 stone didn't seem to keep me on my feet. The idiot(Brit) then tried to suggest it was my fault Hope you recover quickly
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Three months out of action sounds bad, you have my sympathies. I guess I must have been lucky; I've only once crashed into somebody, and that was 20 years ago and the result of me and a friend showing off to each other, then simultaneously losing control and colliding. I came out of that incident slightly worse that she did (mild concussion, cut across the bridge of my nose and two huge black eyes). The only time that someone has skied into me was last season, and that was at very low speed on a bump field and was more funny than dangerous. I hope my luck continues to hold out 
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boarder hit me in whistler this year. I was on piste he came out of trees. Neither of us were going fast or had seen the other till it was too late,but both fell. Amazingly he got up and checked I was ok. First time I've ever seen a boarder stop and check.
Got my skis skied over on my last day by a fast skier going down the blue run. Sent me flying and shook me up quite a bit. He just kept going.
Fortunately no serious injures, this year.
But having been on the receiving end of a collision with a boarder that now means I have to ski with a knee brace (that was some 4 years back) I know how it can be a pain
I wish you all the best carroz, for a speedy recovery
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No - I did end up in an involuntary friendly embrace with another participant in an off-piste group, when we both decided to stop at the same spot, approaching from opposite directions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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carroz, hope you feel better soon - did the boarder stop?
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accidents do happen, but it seems to me that people must be travelling faster at an early stage in their skiing career due to the new technology in ski manufacture, I seem to recall easiski mentioning that it used to take 6 weeks to teach learners to do parallel turns on older style skis, whereas now perhaps it takes a few days. Maybe people do not have the same basic mountain craft and care in such a short period of learning?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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or people get to a medium standard then go full pelt on the nice easy blues where all the slower skiers are..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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rpft, yes he did, and said he was sorry etc, and was rather shaken up as i saw him later in the week.the only witness just saw me flying through the air. Thank you all for the best wishes.
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CANV CANVINGTON, rayscoops, and these problems are all increased this year due to lack of snow on lower slopes.
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You know it makes sense.
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I was pondering whilst in ADH the other week whether people are skiing faster these days, seems to me that a lot of people, barely out of short trousers in ski skill terms, are challenging themselves to go as fast as possible, looking to carve their turns through speed. As pointed out by carroz, , not on the steeps but on the easy reds or blues. Are people going faster these days?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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carroz, really sorry to hear about that. It's appalling that out-of-control people do this much damage. It's no use to you now, and these things happen very fast with little time to collect thoughts ...
... but for the benefit of anyone else involved in this nightmare (either as a victim or witness) ...
... effectively 'arrest' the culprit and get ID with proof of address. At the same time, secure witnesses. Involve the ski patrol and police. Provided you have independent eye witness evidence and did not ski into the path of the descending skier from a stationary position (i.e. without looking up first) then you've a prima facie claim for damages under most jurisdictions. The FIS rules of skiing are a reference tool for most courts.
If the other skier is stupid enough not to have been insured, then it'll cost him/her a lot of money personally. Otherwise a third party insurance settlement will kick in.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| martski wrote: |
| Are people going faster these days? |
Way way faster, relative to a few decades ago.
The primary influences have been snow-grooming and landscaping of runs to remove obstacles etc.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 3-04-07 16:06; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Several in recent weeks:
Paul barman sent flying on the Valentin by an Aussie boarder who then tried to claim it was Paul's fault for doing a series of turns across the fall line rather than bombing straight down. 
Helen bar bird also on the Valentin, surprised to see a ski appear on each side of her board - slithered about 100m down the slope, finally managed to shake the skier off, only to find that it was in fact TWO skiers, who continued down the slope in a ball of arms and legs.
And finally Mr L, cut up by another boarder and faced with a choice of wipe out a skier, crash into some piste signage or hit various huge lumps of ice. Opted for the ice, did several cartwheels, now off to buy a helmet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| now off to buy a helmet. |
every cloud has a silver lining
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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David Goldsmith, The problem for me was it all hurt so much at the time (my right shoulder was out) that trying to get witnesses was not a high priority. i hit so hard on my back that the camelback bladder burst, thumbs up for carrera as the helmet did its job as it took a wack.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Did the other party just hit and run, or did they get help for you?
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carroz, Sorry to hear about your accident, i hope your recovery goes well.
rayscoops, Agree with point about equipment, when i was taught about 15 years ago, it took me two weeks ( and a few lessons on plastic ) before i could parallel ski, i have mates who have just been away with me for a week ( after a couple of hours instruction at castleford ) and by mid-week they were parallel turning, great, but, this does not mean they were in control.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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David Goldsmith, he stopped, and held the skis in a cross above me, (the piste was rather hard they would not go into the snow) someone else went to get the piste patrol, which arrived really quickly. the hospital put my shoulder back in with no xray, and then xrayed it and discovered its also broken, whoops. i do have a suspicion that some people saw it, as there were quite a few people appearing looking at me, but probably don't want to be involved.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Tue 3-04-07 16:42; edited 3 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I was crashed into by a man, when skiing near Morzine in March. He hit me so hard, I was knocked off my feet, slid several feet and banged the back of my head on the ground, which hurt! The worrying thing was I was shadowing my 7 year old son down his first descent of a toughish blue and red on the last day of ski school. We were almost at the bottom when he hit me - if he had hit my son at the same speed, it could have been much worse  My knee still hurts!
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perhaps also the fact that there seems to be fantastic lift access across the moutains, and that more of the piste is now more accessible to the less than experienced skier. it seems so easy to 'chair lift hop' around the mountain negating the need to nip down blacks to get to easier routes/pistes.
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You know it makes sense.
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I remember a bunch of teenage lads on ski boards last year in France playing tag around the large crowds of other people of the same red run. They terrified the life out of me.
Perhaps more patrollers willing to confiscate ski passes are what's required.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
The primary influences have been snow-grooming and landscaping of runs to remove obstacles etc.
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Also booze, DG. The European ski resorts are full of young lions getting tanked up the previous evening in all-night discos. Come mid morning, with the booze still coursing through their veins, they're convinced that they've undergone an overnight transformation from having been an early intermediate skier to only second to Tomba. I have to admit, though, I've seen little of such recklessness in boarders over these past years.
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Poster: A snowHead
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We have been lucky not getting involved in an accident so far. I really don't feel safe to ski in mid terms in crowded French resorts but Hemsedal in Norway was pretty orderly when I visited in Christmas a few years back because it was really cold.
I did find that steeper red or black runs do have less crowd and can be safer too as skiers and boarders tend to be more experienced.
From my own observation I believe the resort and terrain type can also influence on the possibility of collision. With a wide terrain it should be less competition for space.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think one of the main problems is that resorts are getting busier, and people are not drilled in the requirement to keep other people safe. As somebody who has been trying to learn to ski faster using race-type technique, I certainly found it necessary to learn this on shallower slopes, that is, blues and greens. Once you get onto steeper slopes, you need to rotate the skis to control speed of descent using your turns, and cannot practice the technique, until you get good enough to carve on the edges down a black (I'm nowhere near that yet).
In the lessons we were going fast on shallower slopes, and during our practice afterwards BUT we never came near a collision, because we were constantly looking out for people, and avoiding them. We would never pass a skier closely, and tried to pick parts of the piste that were less populated, and where possible go down blacks and reds to get to quieter pistes. Sometimes you get a red or black with a long flattish bit where you can also practice this technique, although I have to say, the busiest runs in some of the resorts are the reds and blacks and you can get a completely deserted blue or green all to yourself - you pick and choose. I don't think there is a problem with going fast on a blue or green provided you don't try to be Franz Klammer on a crowded, narrow run populated by people who are obvious learners, AND you are able to control your speed, slow down, stop and generally act responsibly.
But I have been horrified that when I've slowed down because a track narrows, gets busier, or there is a ski school or obvious beginners, and I've been buzzed by people skiing really very fast and without the control to slow down. This applies to shallow tracks, but also to steeper pitches on reds and blues, where people don't have the control to either slow down, or to descend these steep pitches slowly and under control at all.
When I'm riding my motorbike on track days, the key thing that governs how fast I will go is the brakes - good brakes mean you can go faster, poor brakes and you limit your speed. You also pass beginners on the track with a much wider margin than you would use in the fast group with experienced riders who are used to close passing. It makes sense - the beginners are easy to pass anyway, and you don't want to be too near them as they often do something unexpected, and you could cause them to fall off if you distract them.
It seems to me that quite often when skiing, people go as fast as they can, but don't have the skill or judgement to slow down when it is required (i.e they have poor brakes), and don't recognise that when your speed increases, you also need to leave a longer distance to slow down, and to change the type of turns you are doing to something better suited to busier tracks or the proximity to beginners.
We are taught on motorcycle track days "the throttle works both ways" - if you are frustrated by inability to pass a slower rider then drop back and make yourself some room to play in. I do this when skiing too - if there is a ski school train going down the piste, I'll move to the side, stop and wait for a gap to open. They usually stop soon too, and then you can go on and get ahead and play on empty snow. Some people treat the piste as their exclusive playground. It isn't. The beginners have paid just as much money to be there, and have the same right to be there too!
I've had one collision, mentioned elsewhere, where neither of us were at fault, but which was caused by two members of the race club "buzzing" us as we were approaching a lift. I've had a near miss where I had almost stopped in front of a piste map board with a signpost to take a look, and a man came by very fast indeed and brushed my shoulder. He should have anticipated that people would stop by a map and signpost! I wasn't exactly blocking the piste, as he had nowhere to go if I wasn't there, except to smack straight into the board. Finally I had a near miss a couple of weeks ago in Austria, where a man on skis was coming down a narrow and difficult red track out of control behind me. I had reached the edge of the piste and although I was taking a narrow path, to allow two or three good skiers or boarders to descend parallel with each other, I still needed to turn back onto the piste, as there was quite a big drop off the side of the track. I heard an "AAAAAGH!" and scrape behind and to my right and realised if I turned, even slightly, back to the right he would collide with me. I could not even sideslip as the camber of the piste would have taken me slightly back into his path. In the end I did a "strategic sit-down" a bit like a boarder, let him career past (and promptly eject both skis and all his equipment), flipped my skis over the other way, got up and carried on again, after checking he was OK.
One other suggestion is that ski schools and instructors should teach people about safe passing. I think it is very difficult to learn this when you are in crocodile of 15 people who take up the whole width of the piste anyway. I've never been taught how to overtake on skis, and for a long while it wasn't relevant as I was slower than everybody else anyway! I think you can sometimes get so wrapped up in the technicalities of going faster that you don't realise you also need to learn how to choose a safe moment to pass and where to do it. You get taught this in advanced driving/motorcycle riding and on track schools for motorcycling - why not on skis?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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has any one given the offending skier/boarder who crashes in to them a clip across the head in retaliation?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| has any one given the offending skier/boarder who crashes in to them a clip across the head in retaliation? |
YES
Not really proud of myself later but felt good at the time
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hopefully tommorow. Kids 0 FW Riders 15. 
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| rayscoops wrote: |
| has any one given the offending skier/boarder who crashes in to them a clip across the head in retaliation? |
One of my colleague swore she did. She was taken out by a boarder near the bottom of the mountain when pistes merge into the lift. The boarder kept on going without looking to see if she's alright. She skied up to him at the end of the liftlline, took off her ski and wack him on the back!
I was hit once by a boarder who flew across the width of the piste. I made a quick turn to get parallel to his line of travel. So when he hit, he glance off my boot and knocked my ski off. The piste was COMPLETELY EMPTY!
He just kept on going without stopping. I think he left purposely. I was lucky to be unhurt but the speed of impact was quite high. He didn't want to be around in case I was hurt.
Since I was out of my binding. I couldn't chase after him. Had I been able to, I would have done what my mate did.
saikee wrote:
| Quote: |
| I did find that steeper red or black runs do have less crowd and can be safer too as skiers and boarders tend to be more experienced |
I agree. Since that incident, I tried not to use the blue and easy reds any more than just the begining and end of the day. It's funny even though the blacks are steeper and skiers ARE travelling faster, I don't recall too many close-calls there, while I had tons of close-calls in the wide but busy blues/reds. These days, I'm also gone off-piste more often than on.
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I had a collision at New Year which has curtailed my skiing somewhat this season due to the knee problems I have developed. A crowd had gathered right at the top of a chairlift. I got off, and was the middle person of three. I had nowhere to go but straight ahead, as a boarder was sitting down on the narrow run-off, and had to pick up a very small child to avoid injuring him/her , but in the process injured myself. The child was OK, and the parents totally unconcerned and continued their conversation. I have previously been hit from behind by a snowboarder, fortunately I was only bruised.
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Although this thread is very similar to another running at the moment I just thought I would make an observation. From skiing extensively on both continents this season I am sure that skier density is far less in North America despite overall much smaller number of "pistes" per resort etc. Of course this may be a reflection of poor off-piste conditions in Europe earlier in the season but is there not a point here that if you choose to ski on piste in busy resorts at peak times then sooner or later you will be in a collision? We have already established that there are plenty of idiots out there. Much like always parking a car on the street in London say, it may not be your fault but its not exactly a surprise when someone bumps or scrapes it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Although this thread is very similar to another running at the moment I just thought I would make an observation. From skiing extensively on both continents this season I am sure that skier density is far less in North America despite overall much smaller number of "pistes" per resort etc. Of course this may be a reflection of poor off-piste conditions in Europe earlier in the season but is there not a point here that if you choose to ski on piste in busy resorts at peak times then sooner or later you will be in a collision? We have already established that there are plenty of idiots out there. Much like always parking a car on the street in London say, it may not be your fault but its not exactly a surprise when someone bumps or scrapes it. |
I'm not sure about the skier density part. My collision with boarder happened in Colorado on an empty piste!
It's got a lot more to do with WHO uses those pistes. Granted, the more people on the slope, the higher the probability of having idiots amoungst them, I guess. For many, especially for the parents in us, skiing during half-term isn't a choice, but rather a fact of life one just had to live with.
It's like if someone lives and works around London, having one's car bumped or scratched is a risk one has to live with.
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FAQ
I cant believe that people can run into somebody & not stop to check they're ok 
