 Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
poo-poo happens
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Weather, like many things, is cyclical.
It goes down for a bit.
It goes up for a bit.
And so on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
I think the idea that we havn't affected the planet is laughable. Just look around. Of course global warming probably isn't the reason why the alps have had a below average snow year, but to assume we are too insignificant to affect our planet is very dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| professorpool wrote: |
| The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable.. |
Well, it seems most climatologists do not agree with you. Have you any proof to back your claim up?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Chris Brookes,
Wind from the wrong direction
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Chris Brookes, It's been mild everywhere in northern europe - not just in the alps. Why was it so cold in 1962/3? Why was it so hot in the summer of 1976? Being so incredibly old I remember both these oddities. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Diarmuid wrote: |
| professorpool wrote: |
| The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable.. |
Well, it seems most climatologists do not agree with you. Have you any proof to back your claim up? |
Interesting that people tar "mild alps" with "Global warming" when north america are getting a record breaking snowfalls.
Are you sure most climatolgists agree "man" is causing global warming.
I think you mean most climatologists agree global warming is happening, but this was predicted as a natural cycle of the planet.
I dont confess to understand any of this stuff, but the arguments for sunspot activity being the real cause seem quite compelling.
Have a dig around on the web.
Tux
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| tuxpoo wrote: |
Are you sure most climatolgists agree "man" is causing global warming.
|
Tux, you are correct in saying a larger majority agree that climate change is happening than those you say man is a major factor. However from what I've read consensus is growing that man is a major factor Ref (there are more of you google for it, esp from the IPCC)
I accept that even the majority position in science can be wrong, but the consequences of doing nothing are so great, are you willing to take the risk?
PS I don't believe the mild winter here or severe one in the US is proof of climate change. I think an increasing volatility in the weather over the next few decades will be the result. I cannot find the figure but even an increase of 1 degree adds a phenomenal amount of energy to the earths atmosphere.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Some people believe that El Nino events cause a big change in weather patterns over Europe. It's is very likely that this years El Nino event has caused the huge snowfalls over North America and drought-like conditions in Australia, but scientists are not yet in agreement about further reaching effects.
Australian scientists have claimed today that El Nino is over for this year, so things should return to normal down there. If it is the cause of the problems in the Alps aswell, it'll probably take longer for the changes to get all the way up here 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| tuxpoo wrote: |
| Interesting that people tar "mild alps" with "Global warming" when north america are getting a record breaking snowfalls. |
But it has been a mild winter in the US. High snowfall does not mean cold.
| Quote: |
Are you sure most climatolgists agree "man" is causing global warming.
I think you mean most climatologists agree global warming is happening, but this was predicted as a natural cycle of the planet. |
Yes. They do. You may think otherwise because media outlets feel they have a responsibility to provide 'equal time' even when the numbers are stacked massively in one direction. That give the impression of a scientific debate when there really isn't one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| tuxpoo wrote: |
Interesting that people tar "mild alps" with "Global warming" when north america are getting a record breaking snowfalls.
|
Hi Tux,
The only North American resort reporting record breaking snowfall is Whistler. Everywhere else, as far as I can see, is reporting less snowfall than usual.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Diarmuid wrote: |
| professorpool wrote: |
| The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable.. |
Well, it seems most climatologists do not agree with you. Have you any proof to back your claim up? |
Well just like religion or any hypothesis put forward the onus of proof is on the persons claiming the hypothesis. My position is that man probably is having an impact but the effect of mans' impact is not really known as is the effect of global warming. I think the predictions we keep hearing are laughable - most of us on here know how hard it is to predict snowfall a few days off let alone climate change over 10, 20, 50, 100 years etc. The quantity and quality of historical weather measurements are minuscule in the grand scheme of things, 24 hour news channels and the internet allows us to hear of weather events from around the world like never before - i think this adds to the hysteria. 10 years ago to know the snow conditions in the alps you would check ceefax a few days before your trip, you'd never know if it had been a good season so far or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Last year there were ski tours I couldn't do because of too much snow, this year it's the opposite. Sometimes you have to experience the lows to appreciate the highs that much more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Chris Brookes, if you must know it's because I'm sulking, I can't get out there this season so I'm not in a happy mood so it doesn't snow, that way I don't feel quite so bad about not going as I would if they had fantastic conditions 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
climate change is occuring. of that there is no doubt. the matter in question is to what degree human beings are accelerating this change. during the earth's history the poles have been completely ice free so the current change is not unprecedented. there are a large number of climatologists who believe we are coming out of a mini ice age that started in the middle ages. if you look at alpine snow records for the past 30 years it has definitely started snowing later and in lower levels. have also read that mankind's carbon emissions amount to only 5% of the total but they tip the balance sufficently to have an effect.
el nino has a certain effect on northern europe but north atlantic oscilation has a greater effect. as i understand it you can't predict NAO, unlike el nino, only know after the event that it has happened.
to me, it is clear that industrialisation is accelerating climate change but it is in no way clear to what degree this is happening or what we need to do to halt it. on that there is no real agreement among climatologists. interestingly, by far and away the biggest carbon emitters are countries who used coal fired power. this is why the US, China, Germany and Australia have such high emissions. the love their coal fired power.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
use rather than used.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
The climate in Egypt around the time of the Pyramids being built was roughly the same as it is here now. Pretty sure not many people in Egypt were driving 4x4's at the time.
I'm not enough of an expert to list reams of expert opinion, however, I have seen expert opinion.
I stand by my general right to express my own opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| professorpool wrote: |
| The climate in Egypt around the time of the Pyramids being built was roughly the same as it is here now. |
So, you are saying that the UK is now like Egypt was 5,000 years ago.
Interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
No, I'm saying that cliamte change has always occured and always will.
The climate was temperate in Egypt 5,000 years ago. Green, lush, raining, etc - just like in Tonbridge Wells today..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
professorpool, so are you saying that no matter what pollutants we pump into the world, we are having no effect, that good old mother nature is taking care of everything, and there's nothing we can do to make the air cleaner, or stop water becoming polluted?
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
The reason it's stayed so mild is due to weather patterns. This winter has been very "zonal", ie. a procession of weather systems have in general moved W->E around the northern hemisphere. This has the knock on effect that there have been very few incursions of colder air from the North, it's stayed bottled up in the Arctic.
So that explains the mildness. Given that kind of pattern, mildness would always have been an issue and the low resorts would always have had a poor season. If you ask the old timers they'll be able to summon up several examples.
If AGW is having an effect, then it's to make the extreme more extreme. So what might have been an ok season above 1800m in the past is now an ok season above 2000m.
Anyway, there's still a good couple of months of the season left and at last a really potent cold pool of air has been allowed to build up as far South as Russia and Scandinavia. It almost got to Scotland this week (mega-frustratingly it has ground to a halt just over the N sea in Denmark and Norway) but I certainly wouldn't rule out a big sting in the tail of this mild winter.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
professorpool, the summary of the recent IPCC report can be found here if you are interested in reading what is the best attempt at scientific consensus on climate change. From my reading of the IPCC summary your assertion that the possibility that humans have caused climate change is "slightly laughable" is directly contradicted by measurable indicators.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| professorpool wrote: |
| The climate was temperate in Egypt 5,000 years ago. Green, lush, raining, etc - just like in Tonbridge Wells today.. |
... or just like Singapore today.
Can you point to us to any sources for your assertion? Just curious.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| professorpool, so are you saying that no matter what pollutants we pump into the world, we are having no effect, that good old mother nature is taking care of everything, and there's nothing we can do to make the air cleaner, or stop water becoming polluted? |
Nope.
How did you come to that conclusion?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| laundryman wrote: |
| professorpool wrote: |
| The climate was temperate in Egypt 5,000 years ago. Green, lush, raining, etc - just like in Tonbridge Wells today.. |
... or just like Singapore today.
Can you point to us to any sources for your assertion? Just curious. |
I can, but not until I get home and can look up the specific references.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Do you consider that I drive around in a 4x4 and deliberately polute or someting because I don't believe that GW is manmade?
The Global Warning panic has created a healthy attitude to recycling, the environment.
"We do not inherit the earth from our parents, we borrow it from our children"
That is an accurate quote but I cannot remember the author.
I am personally far more concerned with escalations in the Middle East and experts widly predict that a nuclear device or possibly a dirty bomb will be detonated aggressively some time in the next ten years.
See what affect driving a Prius has in the face of that pollution eh
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
And numerous measurable indicators in the later 70`s and early 80`s pointed to the imminent arrival of - not global warming - but another ice age. Scientific `certainties` (assuming there is the degree of consensus and certainty claimed above) of one era have a habit of becoming less certain in the next.
I`m with Goaty on this one. There have been truly enormous climactic changes within recorded human history (and obviously before). Clearly these had nothing to do with human industrial processes (lots of farting sheep and cattle perhaps ?).
I suspect that man`s activities are having an effect on climate and/or the environment. Measuring how great that effect is, relative to other factors, must be very difficult. It is an enormously complex problem.
Having said that, the argument that we should seek to exercise a little more consideration for our environment would seem to be prudent.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Prof Pool - a work colleague of mine wasdown in Antartica over Xmas/New Year and spent some time chatting to a bunch a climatologists down there. They were firmly convinced of the human-induced global warning phenomenon. Interestingly, they also thought all the fuss about 4 x 4`s and air flights was tosh. They stated that by far and away the greatest contributors to the problem were power stations - with coal and oil fired stations being the worst culprits. They were also convinced that the only way forward was to go nuclear.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| professorpool wrote: |
| The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable.. |
The world is in a heating cycle.
It has been warming up for the last 15k years.
Since the end of the last Ice Age.
Long before the Industrial Revolution.
That is an indisputable trend. Nature is making us warmer.
But man is also impacting the climate.
If you put more people in a room, the room gets warmer.
Thus, if you put more people on Earth, it will get hotter.
But the human factor is minor, overall.
Nature is mostly responsible.
And there is little we can do about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| beetle wrote: |
| ... a habit ... |
Really? Not in my very limited understanding of science. Undoubtedly there are examples where scientific orthodoxy has evolved considerably and even been overturned, but I don't think that this happens frequently enough to call it a habit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
| professorpool wrote: |
| The idea that a planet that is 60 million billion zillion years old or whatever has somehow been affected by what a few ant like creatures have done in the last hundred years or so is slightly laughable.. |
The world is in a heating cycle.
It has been warming up for the last 15k years.
Since the end of the last Ice Age.
Long before the Industrial Revolution.
That is an indisputable trend. Nature is making us warmer.
But man is also impacting the climate.
If you put more people in a room, the room gets warmer.
Thus, if you put more people on Earth, it will get hotter.
But the human factor is minor, overall.
Nature is mostly responsible.
And there is little we can do about it. |
More than one report I have seen (and no, I can't link direct to them without resaerching - again) says that we could really do with a damn good world war or a major disease of some sort to cull a load of humans off the face of the earth..
I may be a bit off but I am sure I read somewhere that more human babies have been born since the millenium than in all of prior human hisotry put together. Or some such other daft statistic that is pretty similar..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
Nature is mostly responsible.
And there is little we can do about it. |
Nothing like a fatalist attitude, and the ability to free oneself of any guilt.
(I guess you could blame "Nature" for making coal and oil, so it's "Nature's" fault for any man made pollution)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
