 Poster: A snowHead
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Hope someone can help.
Since the first time I boarded in 1996 (tally now at 7 weeks, I guess) I have always started suffering by about day 4 of really, really sore front quad, usually later in the day. Its not like torn muscles, nor really tired just intense ache.
It seemed obvious that it was fatigue/lactic acid, but having spent 8 hard weeks with a Personal Trainer prior to hitting the slopes last year I still had the same problem. Also, I have boarded with guys far less fit than me who don't have this problem.
Ditto on those horrible narrow, flattish stretches where I find myself in a slight turning position to prevent catching an edge the pain can be extended to both quads or both calves dependant upon which way I am leaning.
Further ditto on back thigh when leaning back on powder.
Could it be my binding angles?
Anybody have any other theories?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mmm. Maybe you have a problem with your stance on the board. Firstly back thigh on powder is common whem powder riding due to extra pressure on the back leg keeping the nose up. Most riders move the bindings back to overcome this problem when riding in powder. Secondly on flats try not to stay on one shallow angle for too long as this will cramp you up. Try swapping the heel edge and the toe edge ever so slightly and keep a straight line.
I am not sure why you would get this on a normal piste run though. Experiment with your stance and binding angles a bit.
What are your angles?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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it could be just simply bad technique  Try a lesson next time you go out, or head up to MK? They will also sort out your stance, angles and width.
I've seen friends who i've been with all day and they really suffer as they have were doing "skidded" turns a lot and doing lots of them rather than picking up speed and carving across the piste.
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Ditto on those horrible narrow, flattish stretches where I find myself in a slight turning position to prevent catching an edge the pain can be extended to both quads or both calves dependant upon which way I am leaning.
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Practise going flat rather than on those long stetches - it's not as difficult as you think, or do as Philip has suggested and flick from one edge to the other to give your muscles a chance to rest.
One further thing that springs to mind is that your forward learn is really agressive so that you are pushed forwards and so continually using your quads??
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i have boarded total 5 weeks when i first bought my bindings i had tryed on about ten million sets in the end it was a budget set that felt the most comfy then when i went out on them the first time spent about three days tweaking because my calfs felt like they where being torn off i couldnt work it out at first then a fellow boarder said you might be at the wrong angle of the dangle so i started tweaking you know when you think you got it just right the pain comes back so after three days it was sorted so i know how you fill but now got a new board well not new a hand me down ride timeless its about three years old but only seen 8 weeks snow anyway not looking forward to changing me bindings over someone said to me just put it in same position but i remember the riding 5 seconds sitting down "in pain" tweaking it was a jar i might go snowdome to check i get it right so i dont miss any of me 121 days of mountain life in whistler this season cant wait chilling boarding drinking mmmmmmmmmm hungry for it already
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DAN i thought snowheads were for people who have something in common um snow maybe so what aint you getting enough off ?????????
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Stance and binding angles are the obvious culprits, but there are additional things to look at.
If you find that you can't straight-line a gentle slope without having to ‘ride/steer’ the board then there’s an often-overlooked bad habit that can cause your problem. Not centring your mass along the pitch axis of the board (centreline, nose to tail). This could be your bindings nearer one edge than the other (look at how much overhang you have at your heels and toes when you’re clipped in – it should be roughly equal) or it could be your posture on the board. ie. head-down, bum-out, shoulders twisted. It’s impossible to tell without seeing you. But try this. . .
On a (very) gentle slope with your board across the fall line, dig a little flat so you can stand in your bindings without clipping in or sliding down the slope. Stand up straight, legs locked with your back straight and your chin up and looking up the slope. Make sure your torso/shoulders are in line with the board and your arms are relaxed (just to make sure, put your hands on your hips – ignore the ‘Ooo duckie’ remarks). Now relax your knees down into your boots while keeping even pressure along the length of your foot. You should feel slight pressure on the tongue of your boot without your heel lifting or crunching your toes to stay vertical. Your back and head should not have changed position. If they have, then this is the start of your problem and you would probably benefit from a pilates class to strengthen your core and improve your balance. If you’re ok in this position, then you should now be able to squat straight down without toppling forward or back. Do this (or practice it) and you will be centring your mass over your feet and you should be able to hold this position almost indefinitely. That’s the first step. Now you can check your binding positions. Not everyone’s normal body position centres their mass straight down through the middle of the foot and we make continuous subconscious adjustments to compensate for this. On a board this will result in the board wanting to turn without your obvious input and your constant correction will knacker you . . . hellooocramp!
Assuming you have full range of movement in your binding angles, and while still unclipped, it’s time to see how you centre over the board. Moving on from above and maintaining your body posture, give the board a wiggle off the flat and move your weight along the board to your lead leg and allow the board to turn down the hill. Be careful where your hands/arms end up, they need to stay pretty much within the confines of the board shape as they have an enormous effect on your upper body posture.
Since you’re not clipped in, your body balance/posture is crucial to guiding the board. You should be able to relax and the board will run straight down the slope. If not, take a look at how you’re standing. The board will track to whichever edge is getting the most pressure. If you practice this, you will become more aware of how your body posture is influencing the board and you’ll be able to slide down the hill on either foot. I’ve a mate who’s got this down so well he can ride a board with no bindings better than me when I’m clipped in (and you should see the b*strd on a snow skate!) When you’ve managed to do this repeatedly, you’ll find that you’re putting much less effort into your normal riding and the muscle pain will just go away. Remember to keep your knees flexed and your ankles relaxed – spreading the load across the whole foot.
It boils down to being able to ride most of the hill without constantly having to force the board to do what you want. It’s just practice and observation. Get a mate to vid you for a real laugh, it’ll help. This will also have a big affect on your powder riding, knock back the bindings a hole, or two (if the stuff’s real light) and you will be able to spend the whole day on the hill and the night on a dancefloor without waking up screaming with cramp. (Poma cramp excluded)
We’ll move on to edging stance in the next episode
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Sounds like a good excuse to head to a dry slope/snow dome and try out different hire boards/binding combinations. Might help elimate the kit variable from the equation
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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dan im sorry
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Thanks for the comments/advice guys, particularly Masque.
Okay, I think I have some experimental work to do on bindings/angles etc, damn I will just have to go to MK!
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scottie, we're all a friendly helpful bunch on here..........no worries! 
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You know it makes sense.
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Well,unless we're giving the skiers abuse!Then we're Abusive ,Unfriendly & obnoxious! Remember 'Camilla' Richie........& a few others!
Generally,though i like a bit of Banter,does help whats left of our miserable summer to go by.
Though it was nice yesterday,had a few hours wake boarding which has given me a bit more to look forward to ,for the winter.
I get pain in my Calves though,though i'm doing alot more excercise this year,bike riding & about to start Roller Blading.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oisin Osh Kelly,
It’s a real shame that most snowboarders are taught that all control and manoeuvring a board is by upper body set and toe/heel pressure, when all is needed is where you put weight into the board. OK when you really start carving hard you have to learn how to use its torsion flex to pedal the turn, but that’s for the speed freaks
You usually get shin pain from trying to continually lifting your toes to set the heel edge. Nearly always caused by too straight stiff legs. check the angle of your calf blade and think about buying a set of heel/toe risers to increase direct response. Then, going back to the post above, relax your knees more than usual (slight squat), move your weight a little toward your lead foot and allow your body mass to centre over the heel edge using the calf blade to lean into . . . then wiggle your toes. You should feel no tension through the top of your foot and up your shin. The more you relax down the better the edge set and less fatigue.
On the other side, just really slouch your shins down onto the tongue of your boots and let your boot transfer your bodyweight into the toe edge of the board. cramp in your calves is from having your legs too straight and trying to stand on your toes.
The lower you get and the more you relax the longer you can ride.
Ah Livigno . . . that jewel of cheap booze and great craique and the transfer from hell. Gallis pub, I always get stuffed into room 1 right over the speakers. Bedtime can only be 03:00, the 2L beer mugs help. Only one problem at the moment is that they’ve closed all the off-piste after some bad accidents three years ago but there are some fantastic hidden tree runs off the new Teola/Valfin chairs and when you get to the road it’s no more than 10 min. till the next bus. On the other side you can treck around the top of the bowl and pick up the Federia to get back. On skis you can get right round to the lake on the old road but in places it’s a bit flat for a board unless you’re carrying snowshoes.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Masque...you've done it again with your wisdom!
But excuse me for asking - what are "heel/toe risers"? Where do you get them? What do they cost?
And the "calf blade"?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Peter Leuzzi, i don't think he's talking about risers in the terms of lifting the whole boot off the board - have a look at "palmer risers" if interested, these are useful for guys with clowns feet so you can use a "normal" width board and not have to use a wide board. I think these are what are sometimes called "gas pedels" - not seem them for the heel but basically they rise your toes up so that the transfer of power is more direct - have a look at your bindings, generally older bindings tended to be very flat. Just tried to find a decent picture on the web, this one is quite flat:
http://airtimeboards.com/sx_binding.jpg
but this one isn't:
http://pix.summitsportsinc.com/36468.jpg
Can you see the difference?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Calf blade, high-back etc.
Risers are shaped lumps of plastic/resin that glue to your bindings and pre-pressure your heel and toes. My ride bindings have them built in and I can change them from virtually flat to about 12mm of lift. My Salomon boots have a pronounced upward curve in the sole and these riser inserts just make the boot/board contact very direct, there's no slop when changing from edge to edge and I don't need as much input to move the board around its edges. If you find that when you're on your toe edge and all the pressure is back on the ball of your foot and not spread evenly all the way up to your toes (if you’re having to clench your toes to push down – that’s a good hint) then risers may help. Don’t go too high at first, 5mm is fine as they can promote cramp in the foot. On the heel side, if all the pressure is being transferred via the high-back and not shared by your heel then you’ve a similar situation. You can experiment by using big pencil rubbers. shave them to a gentle wedge and use carpet tape to temp glue then to your board/bindings. Just make sure that they make good contact with the toe and heel of your boots and try a few runs. It’s really subjective is this ‘cos boots and bindings are all different. It’s suck it and see what works for you. But above all it’s posture that’s the starting point for everything. the basic aerobic or martial arts stance that’s a good begining.
See 'Slush&Rubble in MK to buy them but have a play with some cheap rubbers first, 'cos you may not want them. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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DanNo always ridden a K2 Electra.
With a 2 Mile seafront & a huge belly blading will do..................Stop taking the P#ss!Something has to go,& before the Blades its my Gut!
Live on the coast,the terrain (Waves & Wake) always changes when we wake board.Either get air from the wake or carve off of the sides,which on a good flat night (or early morning) reminds me alot of riding off piste.
I've never used the pulley system,so i couldn't comment.
Oisin,DB & Onno,never forget them!
As for the risers,just bought a K2 Recon Riser from Ebay for a snip,so i will let you know my thoughts once i give it a whirl.
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Rode A F2 Ultima, freeride verging on carving board, with Palmer Risers for most of last season. Works wonders for those of us with 'clown feet'. I think the only effect it might have on the calf pain thing is that it they increase the leverage of the leg when intiating turns. So you may use a little less muscle power so may not get fatigued just as qucikly.
I guess the other thing to try is a custom-fitted boot.......Snowlines, the Edinburgh shop is massive on this process - it sells running stuff in the summer. Check their site
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Peter,
I actually gave up snowboarding in favour of skiing because of the punishing calf pain.
I found nice soft boots helped but didn't cure the problem.
I think if you spent all day _not_ on a snowboard rocking your full weight between your heel and toes you'd get sore calves.
I hope you find the answer! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks everyone. Much to go on with!
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