 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
Is there a chart online anywhere to check my binding settings?
Just thought I'd look at the bindings on my 1080s and they are at 10, (set by Nevissport), just wanted to check them somehow!
cheers,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gregh, this chart is not necessarily to be taken as gospel:
http://www.callisto.si.usherb.ca/~lacurve/html_gen/din.html
If you specify your bindings model, weight, height, age (whether above or below 50), boot sole length (in mm), and your 'skier type' (see that chart - not the same as ability) we should be able to reach a consensus view on your correct settings.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ok, thanks, assuming that chart is correct, they are too high.
Boot sole = 305mm, weight = 83kg, Type III skier, 5ft 10" so that means a row K, + move it down 2 so setting should be 7!
so if I was looking at bindings for a 2nd pair of skis, should I get max DIN 10 or max DIN 12?
cheers,
Greg
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gregh, in purely engineering terms you should look for a binding where your normal setting is arround mid way up the binding scale so I'd be more inclined to look at the bindings with a Max Din of 12
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| gregh, in purely engineering terms you should look for a binding where your normal setting is arround mid way up the binding scale so I'd be more inclined to look at the bindings with a Max Din of 12 |
It depends where they start!
A max din of 12 prolly starts around 4 or 5, but a max of 10 is more likely to start at 3 or 4.
I'd go with the 10.
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gregh, If you want the bindings checked properly www.filarinskis.co.uk have a machine that check's the operation of them!
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gregh, you are only just off by 1 inch from a setting that would give you a din of 9 and not all setting charts are the same (depite it being an ISO standard  ) so you may well find as an agressive skier that a setting of 7.5 (from the chart not 7) is not enough to prevent unexpected releases and will need to increase it to the next setting of 9. in which case you definately want the DIN 12 bindings
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gregh, yes your bindings should be max DIN 7.5. Ski with them on that setting and they should be OK, but take it easy in bumps etc. until you're confident they're not pre-releasing.
Personally I've always self-tested new bindings because I don't trust the quality control of all manufacturers. I self-tested a new binding a couple of seasons ago and found it impossible to release from on my normal setting of 8. The setting had to be cranked down 2 points to feel right. It's particularly important with the twist release at the toe. I like to put the skis on, stay on the spot, edge the ski and twist out of the toe with my own twisting force.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gregh, the link provided above is to an 8 year old sheet for Marker bindings. If you're on Salmon 1080s, I'd expect you are probably on recent Salomon bindings.
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| gregh wrote: |
Boot sole = 305mm, weight = 83kg, Type III skier, 5ft 10" so that means a row K, + move it down 2 so setting should be 7!
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On the 2004/05 Salomon chart 178cm tall would give you a DIN of 8, 179cm would be 9.5
(assuming you are under 50)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Taking greg's account at face value it'd be interesting to know how this occurred. Was a job card / computer record of the technician's work kept? Was he certified as a binding technician?
greg - you might be doing the manager of the ski shop concerned a favour by raising your concerns and seeing if he'll be open with you about showing you their records. He should certainly thank you for bringing it to his attention, and if you've not cranked down the bindings settings yourself, let them do it. On the strength of what you've reported, it's not good.
WTFH - have you got a link to that Salomon chart? It'd be interesting to take a look at it, and understand more about what's going on between the manufacturers and the ISO. If there's variance, consumers should know the reasons.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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yup I am on recent bindings, WTFH, the Salomon S912 Ti 1080 binding
Probably worth a call to the shop who set them up.....
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cheers WTFH, so maybe they are right after all!
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You know it makes sense.
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| WTFH - have you got a link to that Salomon chart? It'd be interesting to take a look at it, and understand more about what's going on between the manufacturers and the ISO. If there's variance, consumers should know the reasons. |
David, I have it in front of me, but not online.
Also, as I've said before, I don't think it's a good idea for it to be online, because then anyone can read it, and decide that they know better than a trained ski tech. That's when accidents happen.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Well, that's the industry line and I've always found it highly patronising to the skier. People fix their own bikes and cars, and are advised how to do it. They use carpentry tools (ooo, dangerous) and are trained how to use avalanche transceivers ... but for some reason bindings manufacturers keep their charts to themselves.
You can drive a car into any garage and find a chart which recommends tyre pressure levels, and are left to do the job yourself - because it affects your safety on the road.
But skiers are far too thick to be trusted with a bindings chart.
"You silly people, you're far too stupid to be trusted with anything as sophisticated as this binding settings chart".
Sorry, I don't buy it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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WTFH, do they adjust for weight, skier levels etc? 5ft 10" is 177cm in my book, so what does that make me on your magic chart 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gregh, I'd go back to the shop and ask for a copy of the settings chart. You've paid for the equipment. You're entitled to a copy of what is, in effect, the manual, as far as I can see.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gregh, the setting of 8 would be for 177, you base it on weight and height. What I find interesting is that some people give their weight in metric, and their height in imperial, or vice-versa. This can then lead to differences in settings (There was an argument on here a while back about DIN settings based on a similar situation).
Where the height and weight are in two different rows, then the rule is to go for the lower of the two, but you will find some ski techs will take the approach that if one value is at the extreme end of its range, and the other value is one or more ranges further up, that rather than taking the low value, they will take one which is one level above that.
So, 5'10" = 177.8cm, which is up at the top of that range. They may have chosen, based on asking you what you ski, and looking at the skis you are using, to make a judgement call to go for the higher setting. This could include comments you say, which may make them put you down as a type 3+
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If the shop has set them incorrectly, I would also want to know if they have set the Forward (Toe) release pressure correctly.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gregh, I'm not going to say any more on this, as I see that DG is back to his argument of letting people decide, without proper training, on what is best for them, which I consider to be dangerous.
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thanks WTFH, not as bad as I first thought then and important lesson learnt about using an 8 year old Marker DIN setting chart !!
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ajhainey, yeah, I did the Salomon test at the beginning of the 93 season. I seem to remember that most of it consisted of knowing what Salomon products to recommend.
Probably the trickiest part was convincing some people to admit what weight they were 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| gregh, I'm not going to say any more on this, as I see that DG is back to his argument of letting people decide, without proper training, on what is best for them, which I consider to be dangerous. |
That's not really fair. I'm not saying the technician shouldn't do the job. I'm saying the punter has the right to double-check the work by being given the chart.
Which is more dangerous - the technician getting the setting wrong (note what ajhainey says), or the customer being openly informed as to how the calculation has been obtained?
Anyone can make a mistake in a busy shop. A tech has to do 4 separate adjustments to the DIN on the toes and heels, his work probably isn't checked, so it's easy for a binding to go out wrongly adjusted - even if the guy is conscientious.
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David Goldsmith, but the tech will then be expected to explain to each punter how/why he reached the decision on the settings, if the punter decides he wants a different setting, based on how he interprets the information, then the tech will have to get a release waiver, get the punter to sign it, then go back to setting up the skis. Suddenly setting up skis takes 2x as long, and more, so the shops have to put up the price of setting up skis, so more punters decide they know best, and do it themselves, hopefully remembering that setting up bindings is not just about setting the DINs.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Does anyone know of a case where someone even tried suing a shop over an inappropriate DIN setting?
The way people dish out waivers, worry about disclosing reasons for choosing a DIN setting etc you'd think it happened all the time. I do doubt that this is the case
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
the tech will then be expected to explain to each punter how/why he reached the decision on the settings
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Well, if you're buying then I think he owes you the time to explain anything you want explained. As for renters - I suspect the vast majority won't know or care 
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Arno, there have been numerous legal cases against shops, plastic slopes and tour operators (when they sell ski rental as part of a package holiday they are liable) for alleged incorrect binding settings.
WTFH, I don't think that handing the customer the chart implies that they've additionally got to give a verbal explanation. A simple way of avoiding this is to additionally give the client a copy of the job card, showing the data recorded and the DIN setting decided. The client can then chew over this at home. In the vast majority of instances the client wouldn't bother to double-check, but it's just an additional safeguard that is (IMHO) the customer's right.
By the way, I've felt for over 20 years that the thing should be computerised. Customer stands on electronic scales and height-measuring device, tech types in boot sole length, skier type is agreed and entered, with age ... machine then prints out the data and DIN calculation automatically.
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You know it makes sense.
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IMHO - for someone to even start to ask this question then 10 would probably be too high. Anyone at that level of DIN should have some understanding as to what their DIN should be set at. Sorry if this is stating the obvious but having been a bit out of the game for a few years can't understand how some of the above comments are helpful.
I feel that someone set up on DIN 10 should have some understanding as to their own ability and levels...
Did I just open a small storm in a teacup?
P.S. Weight and height are similar and when I raced had DIN set at 8 by my coach - didn't ever get into this too technically but worked for me.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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no sh*t Sherlock Always wanted to say that in a forum!!
I completely understand DIN, hence my surprise when I saw it was 10 as I have been on 8 on my previous set of skis (with different boots).
I do understand my own ability and levels, not sure what you are implying here? Surely your DIN setting is not that relevant to mine, as the boot sole length is one of the factors at play.
Regards,
Greg
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Poster: A snowHead
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| By the way, I've felt for over 20 years that the thing should be computerised. Customer stands on electronic scales and height-measuring device, tech types in boot sole length, skier type is agreed and entered, with age ... machine then prints out the data and DIN calculation automatically. |
Which does exist btw - I've come across one - in Chatel - in the intersport on the 'lower' road I think?? Seemed to work well and avoided the language barrier/weight embarrasement/customer having no clue about kilos problems nicely - you still entered your height but it was measured off a bar attached to the machine, and hit an age category and skier type, then the tech entered ski type, boot length etc and it printed it out a little receipt type slip, you get a copy of this so you can check the binding have then been set correctly - problem solved! I was quite impressed, if originally a little confused...
aj xx
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| David Goldsmith wrote: |
| By the way, I've felt for over 20 years that the thing should be computerised. Customer stands on electronic scales and height-measuring device, tech types in boot sole length, skier type is agreed and entered, with age ... machine then prints out the data and DIN calculation automatically. |
David, the Francis Blanc's shop in Courchevel 1650 has exactly that piece of kit. They give you two copies of the print out, one for the techy at the rental desk & he then writes the stock number of the hire skis he gives you on his copy & files it. You keep the other copy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fairly certain they have the same setup with electronic recording in Central Sport in ...... Wengen as well not that I've had to use it myself
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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A PM just came through from a helpful snowHead who knew where to find the Salomon binding setting chart:
http://expert.salomon-sports.com/TechExam.pdf
Hope that link works. As Fox implies, best to use this chart with care and best to have your bindings adjusted (since there are other factors involved) by someone who is a certified binding technician.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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David Goldsmith, it seems to be password protected. Do you know the magic word?
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Yes, but the source provided the password in confidence ... so we're stumped. Again!
I really don't know why Salomon, or other manufacturers, don't publish these charts for the general public. Let's try and find a way around this.
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David Goldsmith, if Salomon provided the chart for the general public, and a member of the public chose to set his bindings up based on the chart, who do you think would be held responsible?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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FAQ
- the 'proper training' consisted of making sure we had enough maths skills to read the chart, it's just a formula, there is no magic 'art' to it. Plus I have sent back friends skis at least a couple of times for being incorrectly set, and once for being so badly adjusted I thought he may have picked up the wrong skis from the shop...so I'm backing 'make the charts available and encourage people to go back to the source if they are worried'. As they are usually sellotaped to the desk in the rental shop though - it's not hard to go in and just read it upside down if you want to double check 
Thanks 