 Poster: A snowHead
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Yes I know I should have down something well before now, but what are the key excercises I should be doing before I hit the slopes in two weeks? I mountain bike fairly seriously at the weekends if only for one long afternoon so I am in reasonable shape but I would like to know which muscles I should target for the time I have.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mountain biking is an ideal exercise for skiing, so do it everyday!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You can do very little to improve fitness in only 2 weeks, but the most useful thing you can do is subject your body to some of the strange things you expect to do when you will be skiing, that way you get the natural reaction of stiffness, aches and pains out the way now so hopefully you don't suffer it during the holiday.
Personally I think cycling is one of the best forms of exercise for skiing (other than skiing), particularly uphill when you really work the quads, so on that score you should be able to cope quite well. The other strength exercises I would do are squats, lunges (forwards and at 45 degree angles) and that strange sitting without a chair exercise that most skiing books tell you about (you know where you have your back against a wall and slowly lower yourself to the sitting postion and hold it for a while). General ab exercises where you work the main muscles also the obliques should be included too.
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| zebedee wrote: |
| You can do very little to improve fitness in only 2 weeks, |
How many weeks does it take to improve fitness? 1 day exercise is better than 1 day with no exercise. I completely disagree 2 weeks is ample time to improve.
When I was young and fit and at school as a member of the 1st XV rugby team our summer holidays ended one week early and we had to go back for rugby fitness training (1 week) I would have loved to have told the coach “one week are you having a laugh? Can’t improve fitness in that time!” unfortunately that was not an option
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I agree withII, you would be surprised how much you can improve your fitness in two weeks. Try to avoid running as the shock can be bad for skiiers knees. I have found 30 mins on a rowing machine every day to be a very form of exercise to get fit quickly. zebedee, is right in saying that you should concentrate on ski exercises if you already have a good level of fitness
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Depends what we mean when talk about fitness, for example endurance, strength, power. But with strength training for example there is very little physiological adaptation beyond a bit of swelling (similar to when you injure yourself) for the first month. You will however be able to lift heavier weights, maybe up to 50% increase, but that's mainly down to improvements in co-ordination.
General recommendation used to be exercise 3 times a week for it to have an effect, less than that and it doesn't really stimulate your body to adapt. Nowdays they seem to say that you need at least 30 minutes every day, but I don't agree with that, it's only likely to put people off completely by making then think that there's no point in bothering unless can exercise every day.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that scotabroad should do nothing, but just don't expect too much.
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| scotabroad wrote: |
| Yes I know I should have down something well before now, but what are the key excercises I should be doing before I hit the slopes in two weeks? I mountain bike fairly seriously at the weekends if only for one long afternoon so I am in reasonable shape but I would like to know which muscles I should target for the time I have. |
You have left it far, far too late.
However, you might be able to, safely, up your game by, say, 1% to 2% max. in 2 weeks.
You will need a TOTAL regime. Fitness + diet.
Concentrate on the thighs. Cycling and squatting are useful. Don't overdo it. 7 days from 14 is perhaps the maximum. Stop and rest 2 days before you fly out.
Eliminate sodium from the diet. Eat no more than 2.4 grams per day. This will lower blood pressure and increase lung capacity. Up the calcium (800mg per day) and vitamin D (5ug) intake. This will strengthen bones. Intake plenty of protein (e.g. chicken).
I am NOT a doctor or nutritionist. So please take this advice in that context.
Good luck.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Well I will definitely get on me bike more & cut out the Boddingtons for a couple of weeks. With all this motivational talk i just did my first set off lunges, crunches and press ups . My knees complained a fair bit with the lunges, so I tried squats which were a little less stressful. It also doesn't help that I have had a stinking cold all week and have not been fit to excersize, but I will be out on the bike tomorrow.
The main objective is to make best use of what I already have, so point taken about looking at what I eat as well.
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2 weeks - I would concentrate on stretching and flexibility. Mountain biking is already good training, but limited in the mobility. Being flexible means less chance of injury
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Any particular stretching/ flexing movements that you would suggest?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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the phantom chair stretch is probably the best stretch skiers can do
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Any exercise that engages your core while you exercise will be good
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You know it makes sense.
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scotabroad,
Personally I get a bit stiff after my first few days skiing however fit or unfit I am. I am going to try to head to a dry slope or indoor slope to do some skiing this year to see if I can avoid this.
I think Whitegolds dietary advice is rather bizarre a healthy balanced diet is pretty difficult to improve on for most sportsmen. If you want to do something about the diet cutting back on caffeine and alcohol to improve sleep before you go is probably the best advice other than following standard nutritional requirements.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Avoiding alcohol, caffeine, cigarettes, etc. is somewhat stating the obvious.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| Avoiding alcohol, caffeine, cigarettes, etc. is somewhat stating the obvious. |
Why bother? They're not going to kill him in 2 weeks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would have thought that going mad on training for just two weeks would mean a risk of suffering some damage which would mean no skiing holiday. Better to do some light training ie long walks and then not over do it on the first few days skiing.
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| riverman wrote: |
| I would have thought that going mad on training for just two weeks would mean a risk of suffering some damage which would mean no skiing holiday. Better to do some light training ie long walks and then not over do it on the first few days skiing. |
Unless you're talking about an injury, like falling off his bike and busting his collar bone then he should be OK. If you're in reasonable shape then an increase in activity should be fine, and as mentioned taper off towards the end so your body has a chance to recharge and you should feel quite fresh and ready to go when you hit the slopes. For someone who is normally inactive then it would be a different story.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well I thrashed the mountain bike around Llandegla MTB centre this afternoon in the pouring rain and wind as fast as I could and felt tip top despite recovering from a heavy cold. Some more squats crunches and sit ups tomorrow and drink plenty fluids and good healthy food.
I am not going daft, just keeping on top of things. The main reason I left it so late is a skiing mate got a great last minute deal so its get the kids kitted out, daddy get as fit as he can to maximise enjoyment, which I am sure will include a few beers and expressos when I get there, but cutting back for now won't hurt
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| Quote: |
However, you might be able to, safely, up your game by, say, 1% to 2% max. in 2 weeks.
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I disagree completely. If you are basically fairly fit - ie. upping your pulse a wee bit won't give u a heart attack. U can improve fitness substantialy in 2 weeks (IMO).
This is my theory - I'm sure, from a trained physiologist's POV it's full of glaring inaccuracies and misconceptions but it's a model that works remarkably well for me and, once they'd stopped scoffing at my 'ridiculous postulations', a number of friends too 
Firstly it's important to draw a distinction between 'general' exercise and 'exertive' exercise. U can pootle around on your bike, walk to work or climb the stairs in your house all week and never really push your body into changing itself very much, although it may slow (or halt?) the decline.
However, if you Exert yourself, push yourself until you feel a little wobbly, the mechanisms of the body kick in on a different level and adapt to your new conditions surprisingly quickly. My 'key' if you like, is to exert oneself in this way at least 3 days in a row. (If you had six weeks at your disposal I'd say restrict yourself to just 3 days per week in order to create a manageable routine but in your 'emergency' situation perhaps, 3 days on / 1 off, until u go, would be good if u could fit it in.)
The wobbly feeling is the result of the body having to use its emergency energy reserves and it doesn't like to do that on a regular basis so will try to compensate by becoming fitter.
e.g.
Day 1: no big deal - so a Tiger appeared in your village and u had to run: these things happen. That's what emergency glucose reserves are for.
Day 2: A tiger again? - don't want to be using up the glucose every day so better start shifting a little fat (more efficient energy source) into the short term reserves (arms/legs etc) from the long term reserves (hips/waist)
Day 3: Lot of tigers about at the moment! - If the fat reserves are going to have to be replenished this often, better start creating a few new blood vessels to transfer it more efficiently to where it's needed.
At this point, u have become physically fitter in a way that will not deteriorate over a few days, which is why 3 days (in a row!) per week is normally adequate for rapid improvement.
OK, so you have to exert yourself but in what way? After all U can feel wobbly running hard 100m for a bus; Surely that's not what I'm on about?
Well not exactly but not as far off as u might think.
How and what you exercise exertively should be relevant to the kind of fitness u wish to acquire. Doing 100m at top whack will make u feel very wobbly, do it 3 days in a row though, pushing yourself hard each time and you'll already start to find it easier, you'll recover faster afterwards and you may even be a few seconds quicker too. Great if you're training for the January sales but, it'll probably make very little difference to the speed u can run half a mile.
So what do you want? Well, we all know what aches on the 2nd or 3rd day: Leg muscles, stomach maybe, often the arms too. How long's a ski run? 15, 20, 30 mins. IMO the optimum exercise time for fast track fitness for skiing is probably between 1/2hr and an hour. So give yourself that time, say 30mins and gauge it so that, by the end of your exercise time, you feel like you can barely do any more.
If u have an hour before work, it's better to push yourself to your limit in half an hour and sit staring blankly at the wall recovering for the other half, than to go for a 55 minute 'jog' where u barely break a sweat.
The thing is, how long you excercise for is less important than whether you've pushed yourself. Take swimming as an example: I might start at 12 lengths in half an hour. If I push myself each day, I might end up doing 20 in 35 mins at the end of the first week or perhaps 12 in 20 mins. Either way, I've reached the required wobbliness.
By exercising 3 days in a row each week for 3-4 weeks, I have honestly more than quadrupled the distance I could swim for a given level of tiredness. Over that time, my excercise period crept up from about 30mins to about an hour.
So, in summary -
Excercise 3 days in a row.
Exert yourself to the point that you feel a little weak/shakey.
Choose excercise that will take you to this point in 30-60 mins using apropriate muscles.
So, only 1 or 2% possible in two weeks? It's a bit of a tricky postulation to discuss as it's not so easy to quantify fitness. I know I'm a hell of a lot fitter after just 1 week's skiing than I was before it: I dare say I'm rather fitter after the second or third day! There's nothing so annoying as feeling limited by your fitness all week to then be 'fit enough' just as you go home. I guess I'm just trying to bring the second or third day's fitness forward to the first day
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Whitegold,
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Avoiding alcohol, caffeine, cigarettes, etc. is somewhat stating the obvious
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A few points:
With nutrition it is getting the basics right thats important, not worrying about specific levels of micronutrients which in a balance diet you should be supplied with.
I did not say alcohol and caffeine should be avoided, avoidance of caffeine is far from obvious in this context and caffeine may improve athletic performance .
My point was that cutting back on them may improve your sleeping patterns. Sleeping well is very important when trying to increase fitness as it is during periods of rest that your body adapts. It is also useful to go out for your holiday rested. Some of the biggest causes of poor sleep are to much caffeine and alcohol in the evening.
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One published US study indicates that a healthy 23-year-old adult endurance-training hard, on bike or on foot, for 40 mins per day, 6 days per week over 10 weeks, will increase their aerobic fitness by an average of 20 - 25%.
That is an average of 2 - 2.5% per week.
If Scotabroad, sensibly and safely, manages 7 days of hard exercise in the very short timeframe left, then aerobic fitness will augment by roughly 2 - 3% max.
Even if one, rather optimistically, triples it, that is still only a modest 6 - 9% gain.
Realistically, Scotabred should expect just a small improvement in fitness in less than 2 weeks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I like the wobbly routine, i think you could market that 
I'm not sure about the 3 days in a row though. One thing you have to think about is recovery. If you have a day's rest between each sesion then you recharge your energy reserves and should be able to work harder/longer than if you didn't have a rest. Working harder will provide more of a stimulus for the body to adapt. As you improve your fitness you may be able to train 3 days of out of every four, but it would take a bit of working up to, beware the risk of injury if you overdo things, for example over stressing your body. So, my view would be: if you only train 3 times a week then take a day off inbetween, if you can train more often and potentially every day then build up to it gradually. If you get very fit you'll find that you will be training 2 to 3 times a DAY!
The wobbly feeling is a good way of communicating that you do need to push yourself. And each time you train you should think about increasing the intensity or duration so that you continue to push yourself, otherwise your body will stop adapting. Doing intervals is quite a good method of training at a high intensity, each slow period gives you a chance to recover for the next fast period and so you end up doing a lot more work at a higher intensity than if you tried to do it continuously.
It's also good to vary things, so if you do running or some other aerobic activity then it is quite good to do one slow and steady long sesssion each week. This will work more on the slower release energy sources such as fat.
When you're training to prepare for skiing there's nothing better than knowing the hard work and pain (the good sort) you go through is well worth it because it means you can ski better, for longer without feeling like it's hard work, and without the pain
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Yes but thats aerobic fitness, surely flexibilty and lactic acid dispersal would have different improvement rate percentages?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The lactic acid processes may be different, but bear in mind that you are interested in the end result of all of these processes together. So for example the rate at which your body utilise oxygen VO2 max.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
| I'm not sure about the 3 days in a row though. One thing you have to think about is recovery. If you have a day's rest between each sesion then you recharge your energy reserves and should be able to work harder/longer than if you didn't have a rest. Working harder will provide more of a stimulus for the body to adapt. |
Yes, well this is really a very important aspect IMO so I guess bound to be the controversial one 
As I said, I have no training other than what I pick up from TV, snowHeads and my own experience. But this approach has worked way better for me than any other and anyone I know who has confessed to trying it has come back enthusing about the method. Obviously most people, at some time or other, have tried exercising alternate days - this seems to work better.
The way I see it is, by subjecting the body to this push on consequetive days, it more readily sees it as a natural development in circumstances, a shift in the norm and responds accordingly. I dunno, maybe like moving into a migratory mode or something. Actually, u know what, I just read this again "If you have a day's rest between each sesion then you recharge your energy reserves". That's what it's about, isn't it. No, don't give your body that extra day to recharge - if u do, it has no need to improve its recharging mechanisms. Day 1! Day 2! Day 3! push push push - and the body goes, "Pah, at this rate, I'll never get enough fat from the hips to the Legs to last the week - better create new blood vessels to transfer more, faster". And it's those facilities that you'll need when u step out of your comfort zone at home and suddenly demand that your body be active from first to last lift, 6 days on the trot.
But yes, it's important not to overdo it and 3days on, 4 days off is both easy to squeeze into the lifestyle and astonishingly efficient.
Injury? We're not talking about really high performance training of a superfit athlete (at least not until after the 3rd week or so ) so there's no need to over strain oneself. I think injury is more likely to occur if u are pushing the performance aspect, surely? It's more about pushing yourself past your comfort zone than pushing for peak performance.
OK, my example of running for the bus has that performance aspect (and the associated risk) because you are in effect competing against the bus driver's patience but my swimming example involves pushing yourself overall. No one length has to be your fastest ever, but if you've set yourself half an hour and you're not wobbly by then, perhaps every length should have been a tad faster.
Whitegold, I'm sure you're aware of the phrase "there are lies, damned lies and statistics.": I don't believe the stats you have presented really prove the point you're making and possibly quite the reverse.
Yes an increase in aerobic fitness of an average of 20 - 25% over 10 weeks averages out at 2-2.5%/week but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect much (perhaps half) of that change to have occurred in the first 2-3 weeks with the great majority by the 5th week. I wouldn't be surprised if it was as high as 8 or 10% in the first week dropping to below 0.5% in the 10th. That would make scotabroad's potential gain from 2 weeks very worthwhile indeed.
Of course, even more importanly, very small increases in aerobic fitness can produce relatively large changes in physical capability. We all know how much a change in altitude can affect us and our performance. Normal blood Oxygen levels, 98-100% at sea level, are typically about 90-95% at 3000m. If they fall below 90%, acute mountain sickness becomes likely. I'd be glad to push my aerobic fitness up a few points if it kept me above that particular threshold.
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You know it makes sense.
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admin,
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Of course, even more importanly, very small increases in aerobic fitness can produce relatively large changes in physical capability. We all know how much a change in altitude can affect us and our performance. Normal blood Oxygen levels, 98-100% at sea level, are typically about 90-95% at 3000m. If they fall below 90%, acute mountain sickness becomes likely. I'd be glad to push my aerobic fitness up a few points if it kept me above that particular threshold. |
Only slight problem with this theory is that physical fitness does not protect against mountain sickness.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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zebedee, i train each and every day (unless illness prevents), i tried the train then rest method but was getting no benefit at all from it. i found my overall fitness and stamina has improved massively from training every day of the week. i do vary my training, different things for different nights, the only constant is that i run every day, although i do alternate between distance one night then speed the next. 36 years old and i have never been as fit in my life. prob have heart attck ........lol
graeme
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Poster: A snowHead
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scotabroad, good luck with your 2 weeks training, i think you will improve your overall fitness if you put the work in. please update the thread and let us know what you did and if you feel it helped
graeme
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Graeme - I sure will, i now feel compelled after reading the discussion above, so far 30th was a mild walk with the kids to try and get rid of cold snot then indoor squats, sit ups, lunges, press ups. Today 100mins hard thrash on the MTB through N Wales forest, tommorow is an easy hill walk with family and friends. The challenge will be when I return to work its generally dark when I leave and return from work so its either a quick half hour bike first thing or at lunchtime, trouble is I work on the wirral which is very congested so I think the former might have to be squeezed in or I buy lights for the bike, come to think of it that aint a bad idea!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just to confuse things even more, a study comparing endurance training to sprint intervals over a 2 week period found that the sprint group improved more.
Both groups performed training on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays for 2 weeks. For the sprint group, training consisted of repeated 30 s maximal cycling efforts, interspersed with 4 min of recovery. Training progression was implemented by increasing the number of repeats from four repetitions during sessions 1 and 2, to five repetitions during sessions 3 and 4, and finally to six repetitions during sessions 5 and 6. For the endurance group, training consisted of 90–120 min of continuous cycling at an intensity corresponding to 65% of VO2 max.
The only problem is you'll probably find contradictatory research, but I quite like the idea of these repeated short sprints having a bigger impact than a 2 hour bike ride. Certainly worth considering if you're pushed for time.
Overall I think the best thing to do is find something you're comfortable with, there's rarely one right answer.
Good luck with it scotabroad
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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II why don't you try the sprint interval training on your bike, it should take less than 30 minutes for each session. Let us know how you get on and then we'll know if it works
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If you're reasonably fit, then the main difference with skiing is the amount of time you use muscles for. People always so 'you don't normally use the muscles you use for skiing'. Of course you do or your body wouldn't have them, you just don't use them as hard or for hours at a time and then go out every night. Personally I think the best think to do, if you're reasonably fit, is have the discipline to stretch on a regular basis, especially after skiing.
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T Bar, Sorry to interject on someone-elses thread, but can I ask why physical fitness doesn't help with mountain sickness? I live at more or less sea level, and have been on mountains where I have really noticed the thinner oxygen. I assumed that if you were 'aerobically' fitter your body could use available oxygen more easily, and therefore if you were fitter then you would cope more easily in thinner oxygen. From your comments obviously not, but why not?
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I'm hoping to kill two birds with one stone. I just bought a mini-stepper machine and wear my new boots while using it to help break them in  .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Megamum, I suffered from AMS for the first time last November when we spent 3 days on the Tignes Glacier (3500m). This site gives a lot of useful advice: http://www.traveldoctor.co.uk/altitude.htm However the comment "Acute mountain sickness (AMS) is actually more common in fit young men " in no way applies to me! (dehydration and rapid assent with zero acclimatisation were the most likely causes in my case). (and maybe beer!) 
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Megamum,
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but can I ask why physical fitness doesn't help with mountain sickness?
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A good question and the short answer is I don't know, I don't know if the answer is known or not.
But
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I assumed that if you were 'aerobically' fitter your body could use available oxygen more easily, and therefore if you were fitter then you would cope more easily in thinner oxygen. From your comments obviously not,
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This is not quite the same thing. If you are fitter your body will be able to deliver more blood and therefore oxygen to your muscles and you will certainly be able to exercise more easily at altitude this does not however appear to protect against acute mountain sickness as age, sex and fitness are not predictors.
I will hazard a guess at some of the reasons but it is just guess work.
Healthy people at sea level will have oxygen pressures in their blood that are about the same as each other raising this pressure is not very useful as the red cells are carrying oxygen at their full capacity. The training effect is to increase the utilisation of oxygen in the muscles and the amount of blood delivered to those muscles.
At altitude the response required is to increase the oxygen carried in the blood therefore the response required is to increase the breathing to raise the oxygen concentration in the lungs and to get the red cells to hang onto more of the oxygen from the lungs. This is not a response the trained body has needed and therefore has not developed it any more than the untrained body.
It is also probably the case that oxygen carriage is not the only issue as people with mountain sickness respond better to going to a lower altitude than they do to being given oxygen. Altitude sickness is not a feature of other diseases causing hypoxia.
The above is basically guess work though.
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