 Poster: A snowHead
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I've got various sets of skis, boots etc used by a variety of people (and will soon be adding 2 more sets of skis). Rather than keep taking them backwards and forwards to Snow and Rock or whatever, is there a beginners guide to adjusting bindings for different skiiers?
People ask for weight, age, level of ability - what do they do with that information?
Is this something I should not even attempt actually?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| professorpool wrote: |
| Is this something I should not even attempt actually? |
Personally, yup - get them adjusted professionally at a ski shop. Do you want to be responsible when your friend's/family's binding doesn't release as it should, using your 'beginner's guide'?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'll probably get slated for this but heres something else that seems to make skiing much more complicated than it is. For adults set the bindings at 3 (beginners) and if they tend to release quite easily while skiing crank them up a notch and repeat if need be. It takes seconds to do. Make sure all 4 din settings are the same. Every skier is different, (height, weight, aggresiveness of skiing, etc), as are bindings and what is right for one isn't for another. eg.. I have my din settings set at 10 which is way above recommended for my height and weight (5'7 and 12 stone)) but because of the type of skier I am it is called for. I'm sure someone else here will post an actual chart here for you or if you just google "din settings" you'll find what your looking for. Just remember going lower is always the safest option and most skiers perceived ability level is higher than their actual level 
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| Quote: |
For adults set the bindings at 3 (beginners) and if they tend to release quite easily while skiing crank them up a notch and repeat if need be.
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setting the bindings as low as possible is certainly a good start but the DIN levels don't just relate to "beginner/expert". There's a bit of macho stuff around DIN settings, I think (now that people can no longer impress with skis that hit the ski roof bus!). I'm not a beginner but I have my bindings set well below recommendation for my height/weight/ski ability to avoid any strain on my knees; my skis very rarely release, and when they do I am generally glad that they have. My only major ski injury was in the Cairngorms in 1986 with hire skis which didn't release on a nasty twisting fall and my knee has never been the same since and I don't want a repetition. I don't do the sort of skiing where a ski release is a disaster. I confess to changing bindings when visitors want to borrow skis from our extensive collection of old rubbish. I set the bindings low and won't crank them up - anyone who wants them cranked up takes them to the ski shop. However, I am interested to see what more knowledgeable people here will say, because I always feel a bit dubious about playing with bindings. Are there any hidden difficulties about the length adjustment??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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professorpool, don't attempt it without knowing what you are doing.
skidonald, pam w, having bindings set too low can be as bad as to high. If they release when you don't want them to, it can cause injury.
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BMF_Skier, I have multiple pairs of skis and boots which I lend to family and friends when they come to stay. Its cheaper for them than hiring.skidonald, 10 phew. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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professorpool, bindings settings is a minefield of information, misinformation and witchcraft and is really best left to those with long term training and experience rather than has been said here in sHs, to just divide you weight in Kilos by ten  All bindings have slightly different mechanical properties in that some have more 'give' than others in planes of movement . . . this is where the 'forward pressure' setting for some is important. Ideally, you can stress a binding with a torque/twisting force and it will move a pre-determined distance at a fixed/measurable/adjustable resistance before it releases your boot from the binding. All bindings have to perform within a narrow band of tolerance and if in rental (in the EU) use have to be tested every 30 days of use or annually (a certificate should be available for your inspection). Privately, you're probably quite safe in getting an annual check because, if nothing else, if gives you a ski MOT if there are any insurance issues.
The actual setting itself is based on an agreed chart that computes age, height, bootlength and ability but within that you also have to use common sense. I was as a first timer/newby given skis with a setting of DIN 8, but the chart says 4.5 which is where I now keep them and I ski quite aggressively on-piste but only on blues/reds and as I get better and perhaps better balance skilled I will be able to take to blacks without having to increase the DIN setting. I think that easyski will agree with me that the better you ski the less likely you will need to increase your binding DIN . . . at the same time, the better you ski the more likely you are to place yourself in an environment where you will need to wind up the DIN.
My argument is for better skills and lower DIN until you actually need and are capable of handling a higher setting. Marker paint DIN 8 and above in red . . . they probably have a good point.
IF you are in the position of loaning/renting skis/boots etc. you need at the very least to get a basic qualification and insurance. Otherwise, stay out of it.
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professorpool, there is also the requirement to set and check more than just the DIN on a binding - particularly when changing them for a different length boot. Different bindings need different adjustments.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Right then!
Leave em alone it is!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skidonald, a setting of ten seems awfully high.
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Kramer, I agree. I also think his "3 for beginners" is a little out. (particularly since many beginner bindings only start at 3.25-4!)
...actually, just did a bit of calculating - if he has size 5 feet, for his height and weight, he would be 8.5 for level 3. If he spends a lot of his time hucking big cliffs, then he might call himself a 3+, which would be theoretically 10.
...otherwise, I'd question technique/skills if he is coming out of his bindings a lot.
I was chatting to a friend of mine a couple of years back about his settings, and he reckoned he was on 8.5-9. He only used the higher setting in photo shoots where he didn't want to lose a ski and have to wait until his tracks were covered to do the run again. There are very few non-racers who I would rate as better skiers than him.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
Kramer,
...actually, just did a bit of calculating - if he has size 5 feet, for his height and weight, he would be 8.5 for level 3. If he spends a lot of his time hucking big cliffs, then he might call himself a 3+, which would be theoretically 10.
...otherwise, I'd question technique/skills if he is coming out of his bindings a lot.
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 I was trying to make a point about recommended settings are not right for everybody. I have size 8 boots and used my own advice about bindings. ie, going back a few years when I first started hotdogging as I still like to call it I found that skis would come off at recommended settings, so I cranked them up gradually until I found the right setting for me, which is different on each of my skis. Volkl V Pros is 10----PE is 8(hardly used these so poss may be going higher with use)--- Mad Trix is 9 and X Screams is 8 (which never get used anymore).
A bit of added info for those berating me..
I set bindings for people every week, mostly beginners and I follow a chart (height, weight etc)
I have never injured myself skiing or snowboarding (although I did break my leg last year coming off my motorbike which will result in my bindings being dropped a couple of notches and following said advice again.)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| skidonald wrote: |
A bit of added info for those berating me..
I set bindings for people every week, mostly beginners and I follow a chart (height, weight etc)...
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I thought you said all beginners should be set to 3.
According to the chart, a DIN of 3 is valid for a type 1 skier with the following weight/boot sole:
36-41kg in 251-270mm
42-48kg in 271-310mm
49-57kg in >330mm
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Poster: A snowHead
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How hard can it be to use a look up table? Hire shops on a friday/saturday bang them out within a minute with only 3 questions asked, boot size? How much you weigh? And what level of skier. Taking the customers word for it.
I'm with II,on this
| Quote: |
| It’s not rocket science just physics. |
I think there tries to be a bit of "mystic magic" on setting binding but as long as you have all the boxes ticked where is the difficulty?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 2-01-07 14:58; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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skidonald,
Makes sense to me...you rack them up to a point where they don't come off before you want them to...
Personally I'm comfortable with what I can self test them with...ie, I can twist them out standing still, which is about 8.5, maybe 9 depending on the type of binding used.
Its all about what sort of load you are going to put them under.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Nick_C, if you look back, you'll see there was a thread on here a couple of years back where it was discussed/argued at great length.
Yes, it is just simple maths/physics. It is just reading a chart. BUT the problem is how you read the chart. (and the inaccuracies in having conversions on it)
I'll pull together a table to try to make it clearer (or less clear)
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
I thought you said all beginners should be set to 3.
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No, I was giving advice to someone who didn't know didly squat about din settings and a good starting point for an adult beginner is 3. You can work your way up from there. It's a simple process, takes seconds and ensures your bindings won't be on to tight.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Hmm I always thought rocket science WAS physics, well OK maybe with a bit of chemistry to make it go.
Rocket engineering now, that's a different and difficult subject 
Using a standard retail binding for "a variety of people" as professorpool desires will be tricky unless they all magically have very similar boot sole lengths. Most bindings have a limited range of length adjustment and may already have been set at one extreme if he's unlucky. Clearly he needs rental bindings, preferably ones which allow both toe and heel piece movement so as to "centre" his various bods and their different sized boots, and to be trained in how to adjust them.
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Nick, here's what I mean...
| Chart Code | chart lb | Conv to stone | conv to kg | chart kg | diff kg
| | A | 22 | 1 st 8 lb | 10.00 | 10 | 0.00
| | A | 29 | 2 st 1 lb | 13.18 | 13 | -0.18
| | B | 30 | 2 st 2 lb | 13.64 | 14 | 0.36
| | B | 38 | 2 st 10 lb | 17.27 | 17 | -0.27
| | C | 39 | 2 st 11 lb | 17.73 | 18 | 0.27
| | C | 47 | 3 st 5 lb | 21.36 | 21 | -0.36
| | D | 48 | 3 st 6 lb | 21.82 | 22 | 0.18
| | D | 56 | 4 st 0 lb | 25.45 | 25 | -0.45
| | E | 57 | 4 st 1 lb | 25.91 | 26 | 0.09
| | E | 66 | 4 st 10 lb | 30.00 | 30 | 0.00
| | F | 67 | 4 st 11 lb | 30.45 | 31 | 0.55
| | F | 78 | 5 st 8 lb | 35.45 | 35 | -0.45
| | G | 79 | 5 st 9 lb | 35.91 | 36 | 0.09
| | G | 91 | 6 st 7 lb | 41.36 | 41 | -0.36
| | H | 92 | 6 st 8 lb | 41.82 | 42 | 0.18
| | H | 107 | 7 st 9 lb | 48.64 | 48 | -0.64
| | I | 108 | 7 st 10 lb | 49.09 | 49 | -0.09
| | I | 125 | 8 st 13 lb | 56.82 | 57 | 0.18
| | J | 126 | 9 st 0 lb | 57.27 | 58 | 0.73
| | J | 147 | 10 st 7 lb | 66.82 | 66 | -0.82
| | K | 148 | 10 st 8 lb | 67.27 | 67 | -0.27
| | K | 174 | 12 st 6 lb | 79.09 | 78 | -1.09
| | L | 175 | 12 st 7 lb | 79.55 | 79 | -0.55
| | L | 209 | 14 st 13 lb | 95.00 | 94 | -1.00
| | M | 210 | 15 st 0 lb | 95.45 | 95 | -0.45 |
So, the problem comes if someone is borderline between one weight and another, and also how they tell you their weight. e.g. if the skier says they weight 10 and a half stone, well, that's at the top end of the J code. If they say they weigh 67kg, then they are at the bottom of the K. For a more agressive skier, that will make a difference of 1.5 DIN.
...and that's just maths.
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| professorpool wrote: |
People ask for weight, age, level of ability - what do they do with that information?
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OK. I'm a Salomon trained ski technician, so I can answer this.
You need to provide the following information to have any chance of a suitable binding setting:
Ability (what is an acceptable level of force before release?)
Age (older bones - 50+ years - are more brittle)
Boot sole length (very important - influences the amount of leverage on the binding)
Weight (influences the force on the binding)
Height (influences the amount of leverage on the binding)
If you don't get asked for all this information - go somewhere else. Binding technicians use tables or software to calculate the appropriate settings. There is no 'magic formula' - you should get exactly the same setting regardless of where you go.
Although this is a fascinating subject, you really shouldn't mess about with bindings unless you've been properly trained. The main reason that skiing is so much safer than it was a few years ago is that binding technology has improved in leaps and bounds. Remember all those 'break a leg' jibes?
Some of the 'advice' in this thread is patently daft. Still more is plain dangerous.
If you want to learn about bindings ask your local dry slope whether you can attend a course - they run them for their staff using instructors from binding manufacturers. It doesn't cost much and you'll learn a lot.
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| Quote: |
OK. I'm a Salomon trained ski technician
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funnily enough, so am I
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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telford_mike, nicely put.
...one caveat - while DIN is supposed to be a standard, different manufacturers have slight variations on their charts (and over the years the charts have changed as well - compare the infamous Terry Morse 1999 chart with the current Marker, Rossignol and Salomon ones, and you'll see a few differences)
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Yoda, maybe we should form a club!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I went to buy some boots on holiday and the shop discovered my bindings were set on different settings by the hire shop (front and back). They said that they were dangerously set. I agree it seems worth getting an expert to do your bindings but I always check them now! If they are set over seven and you are not a good aggressive skier or a yeti then they probably need lowering. I know someone who checks he can remove the boot manually on his kids bindings (as suggested above).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This is my last post on this subject because people in the skiing business(of which I am one) seem to like all things skiing being very complicated (not having a go in anyone particularly here) when in fact there not. (eg, Carving) so yes it is a simple process, you can be trained for however long you like it still comes down to read a chart (which is available to everyone) and use a screwdriver.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| Yoda, maybe we should form a club! |
I'm in - Binding anorak club!
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You know it makes sense.
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getting back to professorpool's question, shouldn't he also be thinking about forward pressure?
don't claim to be a binding expert but i'm quite happy to play around with DIN settings once the bindings have been properly set up for my boots. in fact, adjusting DIN is usually very easy. you just need to know what DIN the relevant person wants and be able to turn a screwdriver. it's the more subtle things like forward pressure and adjusting the wings on salomon bindings which requires some expert knowledge IMO. or maybe they don't and i've let myself be spooked by the experts.
comments? 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Arno, on the new consumer Salomons (Z**), you don't have any wings to adjust, but there is a blingometer which needs tightening...
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, most of my fiddling with bindings is on touring bindings and i know there are settings which if you get them wrong totally mess up the release mechanism (eg height of the toepiece on Fritschi bindings). i'd actually be more concerned about these sorts of setting than DIN - I know what DIN I like to ski on and it's dead easy to check. if your helpful mate who is lending you his skis hasn't got forward pressure right, this makes the DIN setting a bit irrelevant doesn't it? or not?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno - I'm with you on the touring bindings fiddling (diamir fritschi freeride). I've always wonder if I had press down enough the toepiece or not. I try to stop somewhere in the middle between deadlocking the toe of the boot and leaving enough space for it to wiggle, is there any better way of doing it?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ataghit, with the fritschis, you're supposed to put a thin piece of paper between the toepiece and the boot and tighten to toepiece until you can just about pull the paper out without ripping
there's quite a bit of play/slop in fritschi toepieces anyway so the width of a piece of paper won't make much difference i guess
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Arno, thanks for the tip. I'll try it out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When I bought a second hand pair of Atomic 9.18's off ebay,I was determined to have a go at adjusting them to fit my boots
and set the DIN settings.I found a PDF from Atomic on Google that expained how to do it and set them accordingly.Everything seemed OK
but just to make sure,I took them into a ski shop in Les Arcs to let the technician check them.
He said they were fine but that he preffered a DIN setting of 6.5 as opposed to the 6 that I had set because the pistes were a bit bumpy.
I never had a problem all week and when I needed them to release.they did without problems.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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funny, I'm, just selling a pair of those on ebay!
Following on from the thread, I have actually now decided to sell a bit of it off. 5 sets on ebay right now
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| bernie wrote: |
| ......He said they were fine but that he preffered a DIN setting of 6.5 as opposed to the 6 that I had set because the pistes were a bit bumpy...... |
Unless your an 'extreme' skier DIN setting shouldn't be increased to adjust for conditions.
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| Quote: |
| ......He said they were fine but that he preffered a DIN setting of 6.5 as opposed to the 6 that I had set because the pistes were a bit bumpy...... |
Only cos he'd rather you broke a leg than lose one of his skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Uh...reality check:
Hire some skis from a busy ski shop....you can see the techies thought process...
"Weight in Kilos?"
"80"
Hmm...set at 8 then...
"How do you ski"
"Aggressive, blacks all day me. Fekkin 'ard"
Hmmm...better make it a bit higher, call it 9.
Or "How do you ski?"
"Very cautious, Id rather they weren't too tight I don't want to get hurt"
Hmmm...better make it a 6 then.
Software?? Charts??
On a busy morning??
Reality check over.
PS I own all my own kit, set at 8 !
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| bbski wrote: |
| I went to buy some boots on holiday and the shop discovered my bindings were set on different settings by the hire shop (front and back). They said that they were dangerously set. |
I guess I better had get mine checked out then as they are 0.5 different between the front and back.
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FAQ
