 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
Friends have just booked return flights from East Midlands to Salzburg for £16.65  , they're doing the same price from Liverpool but I'm not sure about Stansted. That's the week 6th-13th Jan.
Deb
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is that price inclusive of all taxes and charges? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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6-13th isn't available, but 7th-14th shows:
Going Out (Reg fare)
1 @ 0.01 GBP 0.01 GBP
Taxes, Fees & Charges
details 9.99 GBP
Coming Back (Reg fare)
1 @ 0.01 GBP 0.01 GBP
Taxes, Fees & Charges
details 6.64 GBP
Total Cost of Flight
excluding handling fee (if applicable)
click here for new information
on handling fees
16.65 GBP
As Deb says... silly money!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The above flights are also the same rate for Friday 12th - Sunday 14th... Anyone for a long weekend in Austria?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And planes are responsible for, what, about 2% of harmful emissions on the planet...? Change your target.
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We are constantly told that there is no point in worrying about this or that source of pollutant; to what sources should we direct our attention make an appreciable difference?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 23-11-06 13:59; edited 1 time in total
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If we stopped all air travel overnight, would global warming cease? No. Therefore why harp on about air travel causing the problem when it is by no means the main culprit!
Sort out bloody public transport in several major countries first and get the millions of unnecessary car journies down by doing so. That'll get rid of a lot of the problem... Factories and power stations, particularly in developing and third world countries are also major parts of the problem.
There you go. A few (sensible) targets for you.
I have an "increasing problem" with ill-informed attacks on invalid targets...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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carled, I wasn't disagreeing with you (although every little helps). It strikes me that if you break down emission sources sufficiently, none of them appear to be worth worrying about.
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Run a bus or an old lorry off the road on your way back from the airport. Your week should end up carbon neutral! 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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http://ec.europa.eu/environment/climat/campaign/index_en.htm
The thing that worries me is that airtravel is the fastest growing CO2 emitter in the world. I am travelling obscene amounts on plane due to my current family situation - it's not healthy for me, my family nor to environment. It does matter what we do as individuals. Carled says that we should sort out the public transport. Well, as soon as the people are willing to pay for it, then we indeed can. For the time being, when none is willing to commit to anything, politicians do not dare to move and raise prices/taxes, change ain't gonna happen...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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richmond, I AM disagreeing with you! Private motoring is a major issue... cut that down and we'd cut huge amounts of emissions. A better public transport system could achieve this, but would be very expensive... what price the planet's future though? I just take issue with people that jump on the "cheap flights are evil because they pollute so much" bandwagon without being aware of the true facts.
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You know it makes sense.
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DB, Ski lifts in france are almost carbon neutral apart from the emissions during their construction. The 80+ % of French electricity coming from CO2-free sources (read nuclear) means that their lifts are pretty environmentally safe.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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it doe sseem strange that ryan effectivly offer these seats for nothing.. i can see that they have to have their planes in certain airports at certain times and will be flying it there regardless.. but to charge nothing.. maybe they hope to sell some drinks and other junk en route, but would that cover the extra fueal to carry the eatra weight on board..? maybe they want to keep their 'stats' on passenger miles and percentage seats sold looking good for the shareholders ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| carled wrote: |
| richmond, I AM disagreeing with you! Private motoring is a major issue... cut that down and we'd cut huge amounts of emissions. A better public transport system could achieve this, but would be very expensive... what price the planet's future though? I just take issue with people that jump on the "cheap flights are evil because they pollute so much" bandwagon without being aware of the true facts. |
Good wo/man; I like someone who can disagree with someone else before they've expressed an opinion or alleged a fact.
What are you disagreeing with me about?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 23-11-06 14:56; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I agree pielot. Disincentive is needed in a big way but from a government level. I think that makes for a more even playing field for individuals. Although it can make a difference what we all do, it won’t take long for a big country to wipe out individual sacrifice.
Demos could go without seeing his/her family and save on flying. That doesn’t seem very fair to me if someone down the road doesn’t give a hoot and carries on polluting regardless.
If the Government sees fit to ban cheep flights, that’s one thing but if they’re available it’s not fair to criticise people for using them.
We’re all hypocrites anyway in one form or another, always drawing the line of reason just beyond where we want it.
You’d have to be pretty green indeed for someone not to be able to come along and have a pop at something you do.
Why cheap flights? Do expensive ones pollute less?
Ban them all and we can get the train up to Scotland. The locals can then go out and buy big 4 X 4’s with the influx of extra dosh!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CANV CANVINGTON, I think they carry a lot of 'courier' mail and freight too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| demos wrote: |
| DB, Ski lifts in france are almost carbon neutral apart from the emissions during their construction. The 80+ % of French electricity coming from CO2-free sources (read nuclear) means that their lifts are pretty environmentally safe. |
If all the ski lifts were turned off there would still be less CO2 emitted as France would export even more electricity. This would displace electricity generation from other sources (e.g. Coal Gas Oil) in other countries so therefore for the whole environment it isn't carbon neutral. Whether nuclear is environmentally safe is also debatable.
The point I was trying to make is that often an environmental supporter attacks others people's polluting situation as if they are totally green themselves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Northerngooner, Expensive flights could actually become carbon neutral if the airline bought credits which would not be renewed/traded. This is already being done for several conferences at European level, for example, where organisers calculate emissions of the event, travel and so forth and then buy the allocations which offset the damage.
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DB, Maybe they would simply produce less energy anyway, since the interconnections are so problematic. 
More seriously, you are totally right in making the point.
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Not sure about idea of buying back carbon as most of them are based on 99 years per tree to get back the carbon
I am now doing a little bit by turning off my car engine when stuck in traffic - I reckon my engine is now running for 45 - 60 minutes less per day than before. Surely we need to be looking at small changes like this that we can make rather than the more radical ones which may or may not come off
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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demos, Wouldn't that really just be a way of helping delegates feel better about the situation?
The only real way for a flight not to pullute at the moment is for it not to happen.
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Northerngooner, I agree. But in a world where we still need to see people, sometimes an imperfect solution to a problem is better than no solution at all.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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what happens when all this carbon neutral stuff leads to a massive surplus off trees.. billions of things everywhere.. i mean thats great for 50 plus years but what happens when they all start dieing and rotting.. think of the fire risk as well all that carbon being torched at once ..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Problem is, how many trees have gone while we're having this convo?
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richmond, your line of, "It strikes me that if you break down emission sources sufficiently, none of them appear to be worth worrying about." is what I'm disagreeing about!
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You know it makes sense.
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Massive surplus of trees is not happening for some time as globally speaking deforestation is still the trend. But then, it's true, all living organisms release the carbon at some stage unless it gets trapped in the ground.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Phew, mention cheap flights being a trice too cheap and some people's blood pressure starts going up!
Flights to Europe at those sorts of prices are very tempting inded but IMHO very silly, in fact Mr Ryanair is <best Monty Python voice>a very silly boy</best Monty Python voice> because all it'll do is draw attention to the issue eventually.
As I understand it the argument about cheap flights being too cheap is more to do with their potentially increasing in number over the next few years and as a result pushing up the contribution of flights to pollution/climate change as other contributors (hopefully) cut theirs. If people wilfully wish to ignore that argument that's their choice, as it is the choice of the US government to deny there's any such thing as global warming but I'd suggest the latter is most certainly informed by wilful self interest and a wish to bury collective heads in the sand as long as possible and my suspicion is the former is, more often than not, also so informed.
Frankly aircraft fuel is too cheap and not subject to the same taxes etc as other fuel and should be, that way artificially low prices could be made more realistic and, yes, discourage us to use flights quite as often as we perhaps do.
However, on the private transport issue of course it's the case that this is more damaging but why counterpose the one to the other? A decent public transport system should be a priority as well as other measures to move us away from our current dependence on fossil fuels. This is an enormous failure (amongst others) of the current government but lets remember that the irrational chaos of the railways and the bus services was created by the disaster of privatisation policies of the last Tory government and the current lot haven't had the guts or the will to tackle that issue properly either.
Frankly it is very silly IMHO that you can jet off X number of miles across the globe to ski cheaper than you get to Scotland and whether some people wish to stick their heads in the sand and point their fingers at other contributors to global warming or not it's an issue that will eventually have to be tackled - you can't cherry pick your favourite or least favourite target on this one I'm afraid no matter how much you'd like to.
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Poster: A snowHead
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http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html
Enjoy life and don't believe all the hype from the politicians and scientists who are trying to make money out of this!!!!!!
The earth WILL get warmer, it WILL also get cooler.......that's what happens. It will still be here spinning around the sun, warming and cooling when the human race has long gone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I don't see anyone making much money out of this. How exactly does that happen? My feeling is that politicians who have denied the existence of the global warming might have pocketed a lot more...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| The time is coming to tax budget airlines out of the sky |
Maybe, but it would be more honest to say "tax poor people out of the sky".
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I don't see anyone making much money out of this.
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The scientists 'proving' this must have you believe it's true so they can keep the fundings for their massively paid jobs. The politicians have found a way of balancing the books and collecting tax that most of the public will agree with, they must be laughing their heads off.
IF it is man made it will get a whole lot worse yet, there's most of Asia, South America and Africa to develop yet. Get on those cheap flights and get as much skiing in while you can .
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Its all a load of rubbish thought up by governments to give us something to worry about. Climate change has and will always happen - earths natural occurrances
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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stevo_the_saddler, Its not the government it's the scientists. The government only got on this quite late. The idea that all scientists are corrupt is ludicrous. Science proceeds by doing repeatable experiments. Anyone who did experiments which nobody could repeat would quickly be discredited (and this subject is attracting so many people who really care in the scientific community you can be very sure it would now be found out very quickly, just as the few scientists employed by the oil industry who opposed the notion for as long as they could have now been found out).
I have a feeling this 2% from air traffic figure is probably thought up by someone who wants us to do nothing about it. (It probably incudes farting from the world' animals which is a HUGE source of greengouse gasses!)
After all, the Indepenent said a while ago that a Trip to Italy by air was equivalent to average use of a car ALL YEAR, and house lighting (can't remember if it was heating too).
Wish I'd kept that article, I can never remember the figures.
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snowball, Depends which scientists you listen to though. There was a 15 minute piece on the news the other day, usual media hype, they played a clip of an "expert" scientist who contradicted almost everything the news were reporting - she got 20 seconds and they "carried on regardless" good story you see. Bird flu anyone?
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snowball, extensive research has shown that 95% of scientific experiments are carried out purely to demonstrate the need for 'further research' usually in increasingly exotic locations 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's going badly off topic, but nevertheless... Cheap airlines are benefiting from inkind support of provincial airports O'Leary does fly only to places where he is the king. Stelios is slightly different.
The EU regulations have an extra-territorial effect and the registration issue can be managed by government if they so want. It's just convenient not to do anything. But, they are also good businessmen and lobbyist, they indeed are. And they do employ and provide income to places which otherwise would be short of excitement.
As for science, from what I can see, there's very little serious research which would deny human impact on the currently ongoing change in climate. The link I gave earlier includes carbon calculators - check out for fun, if nothing else.
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FAQ
... just my opinion! 