 Poster: A snowHead
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On my last holiday I was just beginning to get to grips with carving on a pair of rossignol B2s.
If I was to buy a pair of rossignol switch fs twin tips, would it be much harder for me to carve properly? Is it even a possibility? Im interested in getting into the park a bit more so the B2s might be a little limited in that respect.
Also how much would an appropriate set of bindings cost for the scratch fs and would the shop usually fit them to the skis for free?
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated:)
thanks
ryan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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element, it won't necessarily be harder to carve the twin tips than the B2s. And it's not because of the turned up tail but because of the different flex patterns that are found in freestyle skis such as the Scratch FS, but it may require a little more skill and technique. It may take you a few days to really get used to your new skis, another carving lesson would speed that process up. So don't worry about using a FS ski for general skiing.
There are other skis that will allow you to not feel out of place in the park and still perform very well when skiing other parts of the mountain. What are your stats? (height, weight, experience, where, when, why do you ski?) Lots of people on here ski these types of skis: Public Enemy, Karmas, 1080s etc etc Proper FS skis that perform well all over the hill.
As for bindings, don't fret over them too much. You could get second hand bindings for around £50 providing they have come from a semi-trustworthy source and still on the indemnified list. New bindings will cost from around £90 to £150. See this thread for more info regarding binders. DIN is the number one issue.
The last point that needs to be raised, why buy at all?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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element, if you buy the skis and bindings from the shop at the same time, then they probably will fit them for free (or include it in the price) If you buy the skis in one place, and the bindings somewhere else, then you will be charged for fitting - probably around £25-30.
And if you buy skis and bindings somewhere (e.g. online), don't assume that every shop can/will fit the bindings for you - they may not have the right jigs.
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element, Element, parlor is right - twin tips tend to have a different flex pattern and, overall, tend to be softer. Make sure therefore to get a pair of twin tips that are a bit stiffer and can perform better when carving. Salomon 1080 foils might be a bit soft if you're heavy/aggressive, public enemies are a bit stiffer, and volkl karmas/head mojos are at the stiffer end of the twintip scale. I suppose your choice might depend on whether you want to have a pair of twintips to replace your B2s or to complement them for park usage.
In terms of bindings, most bindings should do, although light would be nice for the park. If you're used to a lifter when carving though, this might be a consideration for getting on edge, although for the park a lot of people prefer bindings with no lift.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I tested a pair of Salomon thrusters with the same thing in mind and I found them very awkward. Didnt turn at all well. I personaly would not consider a twin tip ski for anywhere other then the park. just my opinion
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Twin tip or no twin tip, of itself, makes absolutely no difference to whether a ski carves or not. As Parlor says, it's the sidecut and flex pattern which determine this
element, unless you're getting an awesome deal on the skis, it sounds like you should be wary of buying them before you try. At the moment it sounds a little bit like a shot in the dark for you - you may love them, you may hate them
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Is it possible at all to generalise about a scale of stiffness between manufacturers? e.g. Atomic is generally stiffer than Salomon but not as stiff as Stöckli? Or are the variations within each brand too great to allow for any generalisation?
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The only thing I know about twin tips is that they ski short.... so take that into account regarding how you want to use them.... A short ski might work well in the park but it will be a hinderance in deeper snow. For example, I tried a 180 80mm ski in fresh snow and the tips dived.. I needed at least another 10cm. Super turney ski tho'....obviously.
You need to think about it
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks very much for all the info guys, this is a great forum. Im into music production and recording and the related forums are full of antisocial pedants who make fun of anyone who asks a question.
Arno youre right it is a bit of a shot in the dark, but I'm getting a great deal on them so think it might be worth buying them and if I don't like them I can always sell them on:)
Parlor, I want to buy because it saves me time and probably a bit of money in the long term and its handy if i want to nip down to the dry slope for an hour:)
Thanks for all the advice
ryan
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JT, would 180 be your "normal" length or had you gone up in length anyway but not enough?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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eng_ch,
Depends on the conditions... I've been on 165 SL skis recently... On hardpack I might use a 180
Given that it was a mid fat around 80mm and the shop gave them to me for the day, I didn't second guess it. And if it had been a regular ski and not a twin, I would have been ok. Not perfect but easily ok. The fact that it was a a Stockli Snake
and my 1st twin tip, I was unaware how much it would ski short for me.
Almost all of my falls in deep snow I can put down to the tips diving. This happened on Recons, Snakes and XL's.
This year I'll be on 180 minimum with 85mm plus waists. I think it will make a big difference in deep snow. At least I will not have to work so hard
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| element wrote: |
... full of antisocial pedants who make fun of anyone who asks a question.
Parlor, I want to buy because it saves me time and probably a bit of money in the long term and its handy if i want to nip down to the dry slope for an hour:)
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'cos we never get pedantic  or antisocial
I love owning my own equipment, if you think you can get the use out of them or justify them then buy away!
eng_ch, kindof but as a rule of thumb: Salomon and Rossignol *tend* not to make very stiff skis; Atomic, K2, Head and Dynastar do various flex patterns and have skis at both extremes. Volkl, Stockli, & Fischer are often on the more burly side. (Think of who makes them: German (inc Swiss German) = stiff because most Germans wear laderhosen, French = Noodles because most French men are girls. )
It's harder to say for the smaller manufacturers, when Faction started their skis were uber-noodles but they're trying to beef them up. Some of the independents allow you to buy the same ski shape in different flex patterns: DP, Igneous & PM Gear. This is the future.
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| element wrote: |
| Parlor, I want to buy because it saves me time and probably a bit of money in the long term... |
if you're anything like me, you'll just end up buying more and more skis and never being bothered to sell them on. still they decorate a corner of my attic quite nicely when they're not being used
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You know it makes sense.
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| parlor wrote: |
| (Think of who makes them: German (inc Swiss German) = stiff because most Germans wear laderhosen, French = Noodles because most French men are girls. ) |
The stereotyping here is shocking and I'm pretty sure against the Snowheads Terms and Conditions.
Anyway it's the Austrians who wear lederhosen, German skis are stiff because they all eat fat sausages. Dead on about the French though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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element, every modern ski carves to some degree (now someone's going to rub the exception in my face, I bet) but each a little differently from another. But although what you specifically need to do to get it doing its 'perfect carve' may differ slightly from model to model, what's the same, is the feeling when u get the ski working for u properly.
Yes, the contour and the flex pattern of each ski is different. In this respect, twin tips tend to have a more symetrical form front/back so they allow you, even encourage you, to sit more centrally (ie less fwd). This is bad - or good... depending
I was on Scratch FS 160's for a few days last season and they ripped! Really responsive and light - just made me want to get off the ground as much as possible 
The other side of the coin of course, is that the feel faster sooner so not too great for piste cruising.
My concern is, when u write
| Quote: |
| I was just beginning to get to grips with carving on a pair of rossignol B2s |
it suggests u may be at a point in your progress when twin tips might not be too good for your ski technique in general (bad habits and all that ). I say this as someone who has taken full advatage of the benefits to a 'lazy style' provided by twin-tips.
First and foremost though, it's got to be fun eh? So sodit, why not? If it's a good deal etc. But resolve to get yourself onto more 'normal' skis regularly, say 1 day in 4 or 5. The differences u feel between them will not only tell you lots about your skis but teach u masses about your skiing
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Poster: A snowHead
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hey admin, cheers for that post, turns out that the skis on offer were sold, so i bought a pair of B2s instead:) I reckon ill learn a bit more on them and then maybe specialise later:)
cheers again
ryan
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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element, Sounds like a good idea to me. I had Scratch FSs for a season, found they were great off piste (I don't do park), but were too soft on piste. This season they're supposed to be stiffer though. Yes - twin tips normally ski about 10 cms shorter than regular skis.
admin, Not too sure if the Pontoon carves ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| easiski wrote: |
admin, Not too sure if the Pontoon carves ... |
Beat me to it - I'd still love a pair though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| easiski wrote: |
admin, Not too sure if the Pontoon carves ... |
Beat me to it - I'd still love a pair though. |
OMG have you seen them in the flesh??? Can't remeber who described them as like a snowboard strapped to each foot but that sounds about right!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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parlor, don't agree with you regarding the Spatulas. The tips and tails are narrower than the waist so they'll never catch. The Lotus does have a teensy bit of sidecut under the foot, I believe, just to make them less terrifying on hard snow
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Ah, now carving on Pontoons I can state is quite hard. I used them for a mornign at the EOSB after signing my own disclaimer. After a gentle start tthe pace got a bit excitable and I sideslipped for, ooooh, about 200m gathering speed, unable to find the edge (over the fence on the next moountain, probably) and sailed merrily off the piste, landed in the sluff, still kept sideslipping because the effing things skittered across the top but gradually lost speed until I collapsed in tears in a gully. Good fun, mind. Had another couple of runs but kept the speed down a bit.
They are even now sitting in the office with some leashes on and their next trip out will be at The Big Splash on November 3 at the NEC lake... Yup, we're going waterskiing on them. Behind a motorbike.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It's the little guy that does the stupid stuff. Heard an excellent joke involving Elton John about that. Best repeated in person. From the middle of a lake.
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fallliner, maybe if they take the crash barriers away at the bottom of Tallington slope and the grass is damp enough you could get enough speed up to cross the first lake.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm a big fan of Tallington, but not as a launch pad for lake-crossing escapades. I reckon the terminal velocity off there on a pair of Pontoons would be ooooh, about 4mph.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is Tallington wide enough to turn a pair of Pontoons 
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So far I haven't found anywhere wide enough to turn a pair, though I did only have a pass for Val T. If it'd been a full 3 Valleys pass I reckon there would have been scope. maybe start the turn in VT, get into the fall line in Meribel and finish it by Brides. That's a turn radius of 2500m. Actually, that sounds a bit tight.
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You know it makes sense.
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fallliner, I heard that joke too, it's definitely not for a family audience!! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Arno, OK, so you're not going to go 'carving' on them but you can make them carve. The reverse camber helps. I have skied them for a day and have made a 'sort' of carved turn. In hard snow they are squirrely as hell but you can get full edge contact by twisting your knee right out and driving the tip down. This was actually a distraction from my main point, any ski with any amount of traditional sidecut can and does carve. Even old skis, before carving skis or 'carving' were invented / thought of / described / marketed.
fallliner, why did you have leashes attached to them? I saw the photo of the pair in your gear guide. Marker makes a break wide enough... Also what happened to Volkl big mountain skis? No Mantra, Gotama or Sumos???
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Poster: A snowHead
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parlor, yes, we're getting away from the point... see what you mean about carving the spats. so presumably none of the ski behind your foot is in contact with the snow? sounds mildly terrifying! no argument about anything with a traditional side-cut being capable of being carved
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Arno, when enough force and speed is applied the ski bends / cambers enough for a resonably large section of the edge to be in contact with the snow. Effective edge = 10cm +/- 5cm
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Carving in twintips
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Shouldn't this be carving ON twintips ?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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parlor, yes, Marker make a brake but they weren't fitted to the skis we were supplied... This happens quite a lot with the fat skis we get on test.
Sadly, there weren't any of the Volkls on test, or bought in any real numbers into the UK. We do think the Mantra and Gotama are very good, mind. Not ridden Sumos.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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fallliner, shame about the Volkls. I haven't skied the Sumo 170s but did have one (piste) run on the Sumo 190s, they were amazing... dream worthy...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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i want to get a pair of twintips.
i have been skiing on salomon screams which are excelent for carving and a little off-piste.
i want to ride the twintips like i do the screams.
the screams were 155 so should i go for the same length in the twintips?
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Welcome to MountainGrl0714
As you curently ski on 155cm skis you *could* easily ski a 165cm twin tip. By the time you've allowed for another tip I'm sure you won't notice an extra cm or two.
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| fallliner wrote: |
Ah, now carving on Pontoons I can state is quite hard. I used them for a mornign at the EoSB after signing my own disclaimer. After a gentle start tthe pace got a bit excitable and I sideslipped for, ooooh, about 200m gathering speed, unable to find the edge (over the fence on the next moountain, probably) and sailed merrily off the piste, landed in the sluff, still kept sideslipping because the effing things skittered across the top but gradually lost speed until I collapsed in tears in a gully. Good fun, mind. Had another couple of runs but kept the speed down a bit.
They are even now sitting in the office with some leashes on and their next trip out will be at The Big Splash on November 3 at the NEC lake... Yup, we're going waterskiing on them. Behind a motorbike. |
Just watching VBH headplanting into the lake on 5th Gear!!! Ouch
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ah yes. I had a little chat with her and suggested she should either ride the bike or go for a ski. Someone produced a drysuit and some boots and off she went. Very, very game. Not only was she sprayed with roost as Robinson nailed it from the start, but she also got a good few metres in before dipping her tips. Fine effort; glad she didn't mangle herself.
Good result all round - next year we'll have a little competition.
Ted Foster managed to ollie into a 180 on the Pontoons and another lad called James rode in switch which is some going. His reasoning was because he didn't want to be the only person to fall in going forwards...
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FAQ
