 Poster: A snowHead
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I was reading through the skier profiles on the "Apres" part of this board and one thing struck me - that there are some skiers who have been skiing for years and years but are still not confident on black runs or off-piste, and there are others who have been skiing for only a week or two and feel completely confident on everything.
I know, as an inexperienced skier (5 weeks, 3 trips) that I tend to lack confidence, and call myself a beginner, even though instructors tell me I am a good skier. I won't go down a black run until Mr DS has checked it out for me first and made sure it has no nasty surprises, for example. Of course I've eventually skied down all of the ones he has checked out just fine, and indeed, the right way up too, even on moguls! All the instructors I've skied with say I am a very good skier moving into advanced level. I don't feel that way.
I know there are differences in the rate at which people learn but I wonder if most of the difference between perceived and actual level of ability is down to confidence. If so, is this a gender thing - do men tend to over-estimate their ability and women under-estimate it? Or is it an individual thing. There seems to be such a wide difference between folks' experience and perceived level of expertise that I'm sure it can't all be down to the rate at which they learn.
And if it is a confidence thing, then how can I get mine up to the level that everybody says I'm at in terms of ability?!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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docsquid, once you can answer that last question you will be able to make a fortune speaking at corporate training conferences and writing self-actualisation books.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Lizzard wrote: |
| docsquid, once you can answer that last question you will be able to make a fortune speaking at corporate training conferences and writing self-actualisation books. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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docsquid, often I've skied with couples who've been skiing for the same length of time, and it frequently turns out that whilst the bloke talks the better game, and is more willing to try challenging slopes, the woman is more likely to be the better skier technically.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Kramer, myself and snowbird are a prime example 
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I regularly go over this subject with friends. Some of them talk about the "really steep black run" theu skied with great enthusiasm. I usually ask how well they skied it. A brave beginner with just an ability to snowplough can get down a mountain. Doing it well is different gravy. I'd much rather ski a nice blue run with elegant technique than mash my way down a black run.
It's also obvious that people have no idea how *bad* they ski.
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Kramer, I think the problem is that Mr docsquid has been skiing for 30-odd years and I've been skiing for two years (if you don't count the couple of false starts I had a few years ago). When he says I will find a black run fine (or mogul run, or whatever), I kind of distrust him because I think it must be difficult for him to be in my position of having reasonable technique (at least for my level of experience) but very little experience. Actually, he is always right! He says for some things my technique is better than his, because he learned on straight 205's and I have learned recently with modern BASI technique on carvers, so he does some things "wrong" because they were right when he learned and he can't unlearn them.
I think in my case it is definitely a confidence thing, because I think the same about motorcycling, cycling and all the other sports I do. He talks a good motorbike track day, and puts himself in the middle or fast group, while I put myself in the slow group, then end up with better lap times than him and overtaking or even lapping everybody else.
If other people have a confidence problem, is it ski-specific or does it affect other sports too? I'm just interested, because I need to know how to get over this problem.
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docsquid, Actually it doesn't really sound like a problem to me. At 5 weeks you're obviously doing very well, but as you say, lack experience. As you gain experience, and providing you continue the way you're obviously going with technique, you'll also gain confidence. BTW your husband CAN "unlearn" old school - but he needs updating lessons! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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easiski, thank you! Mr Docsquid has had quite a lot of updating lessons, but he tends to slip back into old school ways when he is not thinking about it, because that is rather hard-wired into his system. He had a couple of private lessons with me last year - they were my lessons but he came along and did the same drills too. He also had a couple of his own private lessons. Sure enough, back at the Snowdome after a few months, his ski tips are diverging and he is lifting his uphill ski just as before 
We're doing Phil Smith's Snoworks course on 18th November in Tignes, the GS race training thing, so I hope both confidence and technique will improve for both of us.
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docsquid, from what I saw last week, I would say (in my not-at-all expert opion) that you're a whole heap better than the people I talk to about how well we ski! I think Mr DS is right WRT black runs - you'd be fine as long as you could persuade yourself that you *can* do it.
Moguls - I don't know. I first skied at Pontypool dry slope in 1979, and I hate moguls. I just can't get on with them. This season, having had a go with Club Ski in Banff last year, I intend to get some 160s for the day and try them with shorter skis.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
We're doing Phil Smith's Snoworks course on 18th November in Tignes, the GS race training thing, so I hope both confidence and technique will improve for both of us.
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docsquid, please report back on how you both enjoy the course, it will be interesting to discover how two people with such different backgrounds react.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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hyweljenkins, try my 147's - they are very easy on them They are, of course, even easier on Snowblades.
I had a lesson on moguls last year in Courchevel. I was going up on the chairlift and the instructor asked what I wanted to concentrate on. I was terrified of bumps, but knew I needed to learn to ski them, so I said moguls. Mr DS was amazed I'd had the nerve to say it. My usual bumps technique was to traverse rather wobbly until I found a nice bump to try and turn on, and then turn, and go off across the slope again.
We started off with the correct technique on the flat (harder than on bumps, as it turned out), and then headed to a bumpy red. At the end of the lesson I was skiing down a bumpy red, straight down the fall line, none of the "ooh, I'll just ski over to that bump there, it looks a bit easier to turn on!", and I was astonished I'd done it.
The next day the weather changed, it was +16C and the mountain turned into mogulled slush. There were bodies, ski poles, goggles detached skis and inverted skiers everywhere we looked (as well as upside-down snowboarders). I just did what I was taught and came down a pretty bumpy black and then a red with absolutely huge moguls on it (harder than the black, IMO). Straight down the fall-line, right way up, no problem! I still need to improve, coz I do tend to stem turn a bit when I lose concentration. But given that I was one of the few who came down both slopes still attached to my skis (and my bindings are set on 3), I was quite pleased.
After that lesson and the subsequent practice, moguls have lost their fear for me. In fact Mr DS now jokes that I go off looking for bumps whenever I can. AND I have bad knees!
If you want to learn moguls, I'd strongly recommend a bumps lesson from an instructor you trust. Gareth, my instructor, had already taught me before and knew how to deal with my lack of confidence pretty well.
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You know it makes sense.
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T Bar, it's alright, I've probably forgotten how to do it by now!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Re: "the bloke talks the better game.......................the woman is more likely to be the better skier technically"
Ah-ha, so its like driving a car then! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Re: you'd be fine as long as you could persuade yourself that you *can* do it.
It IS a confidence thing. I know I'll be fine once I pursuade myself that I can do it too! Also, it does flow into other sports and activies too
B.T.W. Moguls?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To a degree it is a confidence thing, however there are plenty of overconfident (usually young, male) skiers out there.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Kramer wrote: |
| To a degree it is a confidence thing |
And, in skiing, confidence is a degree thing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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ski, The Inner Game of Skiing - I picked it up from Amazon - a good read with lots of good stuff in it.
Lap timing on track day - naughty !
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docsquid, I also second the Inner Game book - just don't swallow it whole. Take bits you think will be useful to you from it, and mentally junk the rest. We all got very into the inner game for a while, but have found that while much of the philosophy is very useful (and some of the games and exercises), some of it can actually harm your skiing too! 
WRT mr docsquid, and reverting - well of course he will revert. However, if he practices his exercises regularly he will revert less and less. It took me 2 years to learn to ski with my feet apart naturally - it's never going to be an overnight thing. The main point is for him to keep trying.
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IME the better people actually are, the less they're likely to tell you that they're actually good, and vice versa. Most people who will actually claim to be "experts" aren't, whereas those who you'd look at on a mountain and be impressed by actually know their weaknesses and limitations so don't claim to be anything special because they know that there's still a lot of room for improvement.
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I remember buying this book and it really built up my confidence. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Inner-Skiing-Gallwey/dp/0679778276?tag=amz07b-21
The sky was the limit, this skiing thing was really all in my head and I couldn't wait to hit the snow again, and I did I hit it.
Yes I fell over almost straight away so went back in for a Germknödel with vanilla sauce, which was nice. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| david@mediacopy wrote: |
ski, The Inner Game of Skiing - I picked it up from Amazon - a good read with lots of good stuff in it.
Lap timing on track day - naughty ! |
Thank you for that tip - I might try it out.
Oh, we only time each other with a stopwatch, as we're in different groups. We don't use a timing beacon or anything naughty!
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docsquid,
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Oh, we only time each other with a stopwatch, as we're in different groups. We don't use a timing beacon or anything naughty!
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Come on them - what circuits ? What times ? How much faster are you than Mr docsquid, ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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docsquid, my book may help you, too. Of course, it won't be out until next summer... But, perhaps you could get a preview... are you going to attend the EOSB?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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ssh, probably not the EoSB. We will probably try to get in a week in late March, but then Mr Docsquid needs a couple of operations - been putting them off until the end of the ski season, but can't put them off until April or we won't make our motorcycling holiday in May.
ski, on the old circut at Cadwell (pre-Chicane) I was usually 5 to 10 seconds quicker than Mr DS with laptimes around the 1:55 mark. Not fast in the general scheme of things, but better than the 3:30 times some of my friends were getting! This year we couldn't go to our usual bash because my Mum was ill and I had to cancel, and last year we forgot to take the stopwatch  At Rockingham we tend to go in the same (middle) group, so no lap times either. However I have overtaken Mr DS there too.
He makes up for it by being quicker than me when skiing and cycling!
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docsquid, That doesn't sound bad  10 seconds is an age ! What bike ? (thinks - thread drift ?)
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You know it makes sense.
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On the bike point a thoiught occurs -are you more confident becuse you have the technique or do you know you are well protected by leathers, back protector, helmet etc and that track slides are "relatively" safe compared to road accidents.
Do you where a helmet and other protection while skiing? Not saying it allows you to ski like a mentallist becuse actually its like buying a lottery ticket in the event of a serious falls into rocks, trees etc
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ski, that was when I was on either an R1 or 748R, and he was on a GSXR600. I now have an RVF400, but haven't been able to take it on the track because Mum was ill all summer. I was posting similar times on my old VFR400 before I got the R1, maybe 5 seconds slower.
fatbob, I'm actually a pretty careful bike rider. I don't think the protective equipment has much to do with it. I ride a bicycle too, and you have precious little by way of protective equipment on when flying down hill at over 40mph. There is the element of safety on the race track that you don't get on the road, and I am more cautious on the road. However, I think it is more to do with having confidence in my technique on a motorbike. So with skiing it is probably about having a lack of confidence in my technique and also in my experience - I am going to encounter snow conditions and so forth that I haven't seen before quite often because I haven't skied very long or in very many places. I have bought a helmet for the GS race course on 18th, so we'll see if this turns me into a crazed loon!
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Poster: A snowHead
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[quote="docsquid"] 20 years ago, having skied for 3 or 4 weeks I was brimming with confidence. Even though my technique was rubbish I felt that I was king of the slopes and would tackle all the reds and quite a few black runs. Obviously I had more than my share of wipe outs. But that was all part of the learning process and I never felt I was in any danger of sustaining a serious injury.
Nowadays it's quite different. I realise that as one gets older the bones get softer and some of the falls I took when I was a "confident" skier could result in broken bones which would at least end my skiing for the rest of the season. So although my skiing ability is now vastly better, my confidence is less than it was 20 years ago.
So now if I look down an icy black run and think I could "probably" ski that OK but I'll take the blue run, I am suffering from a lack of confidence or an excess of common sense?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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docsquid, we can always ski - little thing called summer skiing! + snowdomes + very cheap plastic slope rates ....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski, yes, of course, silly me! I was there this morning (although it hardly summer any more).
Incidentally I got a lot of encouragement from Mr Docsquid this morning. He thinks I've actually improved over the Summer by concentrating on specific areas of weakness and by working on the exercises we were given in our recent lesson.
I can't wait for the Snoworks course in Tignes to start, I'm just so excited!!! I was really worried I'd be up to standard last night, and worried that the people in the bar would put me off the night before by talking a good race and making me feel a bit beginner-ish, but today I feel much more confident because my turns were really quite good (for me) at the Snowdome.
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docsquid, Regarding the skiing, just a quick observation, I wonder if you should re-classify yourself as I don't know any five week advanced skiers that can ski black run moguls in the fall line. You must be advanced/expert.
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skiingfool, oh no, I'm not advanced/expert and don't suppose I'll be for a fair while yet. I can't ski big black moguls in the fall line, the black run was bumpy, i.e. moguls were developing but they weren't large, and there was reasonable grip, but it didn't have the huge moguls you sometimes see (from the lift). You still needed to use the scraping bumps technique, rather than carving/edging though (I know the experts are able to carve through bumps, but I can't do that!!!). The red moguls were big, but the slope wasn't as steep as the black. I didn't realise it was a big deal doing this - I just did what I was taught in the lesson, but applied it to a more extreme situation. It seemed to work! One of the problems is you can't practice this in the Snowdome during the Summer, so I'm probably right back to square one again.
The general view of the instructors I've had in the last year is that I am Level IV of the Snoworks definition which is upper intermediate/advanced. I think they are probably right, unless I have a crisis of confidence, in which case I become just a plain intermediate skier!
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| docsquid wrote: |
| ........One of the problems is you can't practice this in the Snowdome during the Summer..... |
Xscape Castleford 'build' moguls on a regular basis. Unfortunately they can't be left for more than a couple of days as they freeze solid & can't then be removed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| docsquid wrote: |
| I can't wait for the Snoworks course in Tignes to start, I'm just so excited!!! I was really worried I'd be up to standard last night, and worried that the people in the bar would put me off the night before by talking a good race and making me feel a bit beginner-ish, but today I feel much more confident because my turns were really quite good (for me) at the Snowdome. |
There's not a lot of BS talked in the bar, not least because there are some very good skiers amongst the clients and instructors; nobody shoots their mouth off because undoubtedly there will be somebody better than them on the hill. The Snoworks courses I've been on have had very relaxed atmosphere, and nobody is looked down on because they don't have much experience. Just so long as you are passionate about skiing and enjoy other people's company you'll fit right in 
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Could someone please clarify fall line for me? or I think I rest my case as we have someone doing exactly what they were posting this thread about.
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FAQ
. I've only done the short cicuiut at Cadwell - the Gooseneck has to be a favourite corner. 
