 Poster: A snowHead
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Beginners lessons for 4-5 year olds 5x 1 hours - £95
Beginners lessons for everyone else 5x 2hours - £110
As opposed to the French Ski School (esf-lesget.scom):
Kids 6x 2 hours - 149 euros (includes ski passes)
Adults 6x 2 hours - 195 euros (includes ski passes)
So why the massive hyke in price?
Seems like a rip-off to me and no guessing where my money has gone!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I guess because enough people are prepared to pay a premium for what they consider to be a superior service (I know that I'm prepared to pay the extra).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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professorpool, I'm afraid you gets what you pay for. I would go for a British ski school every time, especially if you are going for group lessons. ESF for private tuition would be fine, if you have personal recommendations for a specific instructor. Have you been skiing much, do you have children taking lessons etc? If you are just starting out I would pay the extra and take the British ski school tuition. What ski school is it?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
I guess because enough people are prepared to pay a premium for what they consider to be a superior service
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I agree. One of the big differences (depending on the school, I suppose) is that the British schools typically have groups of no more than 6, whereas ESF packs 'em in
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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professorpool, Can you check the figures. I cant understand the difference in the top 2 ie £19 per hour and £11 per hour/ Aprt from the top 5x1hr kids lesson ESF seem more expensive  Or am i being thick?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'd presume there's also the added reasurrance (sp?) that you're going to be able to understand the instructors and they-you. When I was in France, there were 2 ESF who were able to speak english usefully. One was british, the other was a 17 yr old lad (Kevin) who used to race loads.
The rest of them weren't that great.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Frosty the Snowman, £ vs € and (including lift passes) explain that I think.
professorpool, since you're quoting ESF Les Gets, I would also have a look at 360 international which is an independent French school affiliated to the ESI. Small groups, great tuition, much, much cheaper than BASS, which is I presume the British school you are referring to ?
In answer to the question, simple supply and demand. They are oversubscribed every season so they hike their prices accordingly the next season. Les Gets is overflowing with Brits who are not short of a bob or 2.
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The 4-5 yr old lessons are pricey but they are for a maximum of 4 kids whicjh IMHO is very important.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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professorpool, which resort are you going too. My kids learnt with ESF, they were not all bad. I agree that some of the prices for other ski schools can appear expensive, but that is partly accounted for by the smaller group size, which would mean more individual attention. NOt a lot of diference in prices though when you convert back to pounds 195 euros is about £130. £95 is about €140 .
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Les Gets at Christmas. Don't know for Easter.
My first taste was with the school but I really learnt to ski with the army. Not thinking of lessons for myself, thinking about the family. I may get private lessons in OP this season mind as not had a lot of that.
This is what I have as a family:
Wife - 3 week skiier
Son 14 - 3rd week skiier
Son 5 - beginner
Son 7 - beginner
My wife and my eldest son have both had ESF group lessons in the past. My son particularly had a great cultural experience as he was about 8 at the time and thrown in a group with a load of other "non French" kids of all sorts of different varieties, in particular, no other English.
He was well away!
Add in the passes and your talking £200 for 5x lessons with BSS or £100 inclusive for ESF. That's 400 nicker of good beer money there.
I'm not being conviced of the justification here - apart from the market forces argument.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Helen Beaumont wrote: |
| professorpool, which resort are you going too. My kids learnt with ESF, they were not all bad. I agree that some of the prices for other ski schools can appear expensive, but that is partly accounted for by the smaller group size, which would mean more individual attention. NOt a lot of diference in prices though when you convert back to pounds 195 euros is about £130. £95 is about €140 . |
Passes are included with ESF.
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brian
brian
Guest
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professorpool, www.skisurf360.com
If you search the forums for these guys you'll find numerous recommendations for them. You could also pm Agenterre who knows them personally for a bit of background, just don't try and get him to arrange a booking for you 
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professorpool, Depends when you are going and what you want. If during a holiday period you will almost certainly find that the classes with the ESF are a min 12 where as BASS had a max 8 and the three times we used them for our childre there were only 6 in a class you also guarantee to get a instructor who speaks perfect english which from our view point was worth paying extra for when you have young children. We have also used 360 Ski as mentioned by brian, for a couple of private lessons and they were very good and cheaper than BASS.
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You know it makes sense.
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In the old days, British tuition was not so widely available. Most people still got on OK with the ESF.
If price is an issue I would not worry. I am sure that ESF will be fit for purpose.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
Passes are included with ESF
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195eur for a lift pass and 6x lessons? I'd check that up if I was u.
U could always contact the independent and ask them what makes them worth the extra? (Then phone the ESF and ask them why they're cheaper - if they speak English)
I'd be very surprised if a proper lift pass wa included for that price and if it isn't the rates you quote for adults are pretty well exactly the same per hour as each other.
As for the ESF with young children? My own experience with ESF in Tignes meant that I resolved never to put my child in their hands again.
But before anyone tells me - yes, the ESF is very big and is bound to have good instuctors too. Each school in each resort has its own manager and can be run more or less well accordingly. Perhaps the ESF in Val Claret doesn't think it's worth the bother keeping kids happy and safe as Evolution2 is so good that any parent who gives a monkey's will use them anyway 
Still, it put me off the brand at any price.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| u brain wrote: |
| Perhaps the ESF in Val Claret doesn't think it's worth the bother keeping kids happy and safe as Evolution2 is so good that any parent who gives a monkey's will use them anyway |
I haven't tried ESF in Val Claret but I have Evo2, and they were disappointing at best and certainly nowhere near as good or keen as they're made out to be. I recall a thread on ski schools in Val Claret/Tignes earlier this year, and IIRC another poster also had their kids with Evo2 on the strength of what had been said here about reviews/opinions on the school. She too was very disappointed with their services, but I had already booked and anyway what other choice was there in Val Claret? I understand that BASS have set up in Tignes this season but I'd guess that's Le Lac.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
The 4-5 yr old lessons are pricey but they are for a maximum of 4 kids whicjh IMHO is very important.
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I have frequently seen ESF children's classes with 14 kids in school holiday time. Also, looking at the ESF Les Gets site, those all inclusive packages with ski passes seem to be strictly for beginners, which might mean that they don't actually include a full area pass; they might have done some kind of pared down version for this deal as beginners on their first week on snow would obviously not be using the whole area. It would be worth checking
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The initial nursery slope is bound to be free so that's maybe 2 or 3 days they can save without a pass. After that with a local pass and deep group / ESF-special discounting I guess it makes sense.
professorpool could always approach the other ski schools and see what passes they recommend for complete beginners to get an accurate comparison
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easiski,
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When I worked for the ESI they once tried to send me away with 16!
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ESI or ESF I thought one of ESI's selling points was they restricted groups to 8-10?
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| professorpool wrote: |
Beginners lessons for 4-5 year olds 5x 1 hours - £95
Beginners lessons for everyone else 5x 2hours - £110
As opposed to the French Ski School (esf-lesget.scom):
Kids 6x 2 hours - 149 euros (includes ski passes)
Adults 6x 2 hours - 195 euros (includes ski passes)
So why the massive hyke in price?
Seems like a rip-off to me and no guessing where my money has gone! |
The word 'British' is a byword for 'ripoff'. Almost anything made or owned by Brits will be overpriced and / or shoddy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Whitegold, not to make sweeping statements or anything of course
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| Quote: |
Anything made or owned by Brits will be overpriced and / or shoddy.
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What an absurd assertion. The ESF will make more money from 14 kids than the British school will from 4. Depends what's more important, I suppose, the quality of your 4 year old's experience or the amount of beer money you have leftover. I know several British ski instructors and none of them is rich, or even moderately well off. My son, who is a chef, lived with a very gifted BASI 1 instructor in Val D'Isere last season, and they took in lodgers in their tiny (and expensive) apartment to help make ends meet. They both gave their clients excellent value.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Whitegold, perhaps you would be kind enough to reveal your profession and nationality? You express strong opinions which may affect others' livelihoods - may we ask on what basis you do so?
(For the avoidance of doubt I am a volunteer dry slope instructor - although I do not depend on that for a living I know many who do and I was concerned to read your opinions on that subject. I also know a few Brits who have put in the incredibly hard work to make a go of it in the Alps, including the guy who set up BASS and our very own easiski).
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 12-12-06 1:21; edited 3 times in total
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| The word 'British' is a byword for 'ripoff'. Almost anything made or owned by Brits will be overpriced and / or shoddy. |
In my experience of BASI 1s neither of those attributes would be applicable. Although they are more expensive than the alternatives, I've never thought that I've been ripped off. They have always met the level of quality I was hoping for, often exceeding my expectations. But I suppose the most important fact is that these days there is plenty of alternatives for ski instruction in most of the larger resorts, so if people don't want to pay the premium that most British instructors seem to charge (honourable exception being easiski), they can always choose another ski school.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think Whitegold is doing a bit of trolling here (as he did on the other thread) and responding to him is giving his comments the respectability that they probably don't deserve.
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Poster: A snowHead
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As an example, my first 2 weeks skiing were spent following an ESF instructor round the mountains. Not particularly learning very much except I shouldn't be snowploughing - but not being being told how not to snowplough.
My third week I had 3 half days with Masterclass at Alpe d'Huez - which probably cost about the same as a week with ESF. But I learnt more in the first half hour than I had in the last week and was doing perfect carved tramlines in the snow that first morning (something I find hard to replicate now!  )
If I could go back and re-live my learning experience I wouldn't join an ESF class but would seek out recommendations for a good British or independent ski school in the area. Just my experience.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You pays your money, you take your choice. Some British ski school are expensive, but they generally have a very good reputation and restricted size classes. I have only used the services of 2 B ritish instructors: 1 was at last years EoSB and one at this years PSB. I suspect that a discounted rate was applied, and I know that both times a substantial portion went to SnowHeads.
The lesson at the EoSB in Val Thorens was the best group lesson I have had, and the lesson at the PSB was best private lesson I have had. I thought both were exceptionally good value.
[quote]
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ray Zorro, WRT trolling, I agree, or s/he needs more practice with sarcasm.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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To chip in another 2 pennorth, My experience is that the quality of the learning experience is very much a function of the individual instructor. One of the most fun guys Mrs Axs and I ever had was an old (at least 60) Italian chap in Courmayeur called 'Magio'. He was very old school, feet together, plant that pole, but he had us aeroplaning down without poles and built up our confidence so well we felt great.
Another great guy Ricey, at Morzine, was much more 'modern and technical' and even let our snowboarding son come along on our familiy lessons. (and even gave him some tips as Ricey was also a boarder) Then there was 'Andy' from Interski (a very professional company BTW) who got us all starting to carve, and entertained us by jumping of the roof of a of ski hut.
I don't think the nationality of the guys involved was significant, not even the language (Magio spoke English but not fluently) it was their attitude and obviuos enthusiasm for skiing that they communicated to us and which made it so much fun top learn with them. I have already mentioned Eric from Topski who was probably the best skier I have ever met, he was also very charming and fun to be around. 
And FWIW, IMHO Whitegold, is talking complete b*llocks. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| AxsMan wrote: |
| One of the most fun guys Mrs Axs and I ever had was an old (at least 60) Italian chap in Courmayeur called 'Magio' |
I'm pretty sure that I had that chap in Courmayeur, probably long enough ago that 'feet together' was the name of the game. It was extremely icy, and he gave me confidence on ice for which I'm still very grateful.
Brit instructors may feel that comments on the lessons they give will be fed back to their target audience - Brit skiers - to a greater extent than do local instructors, whose target audience is everyone. The best private lessons I've had in Europe by a mile was with a Brit (Patsy Duncan in Courchevel).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 12-12-06 13:50; edited 2 times in total
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| AxsMan wrote: |
| To I don't think the nationality of the guys involved was significant, not even the language ......... |
I'm not so sure. The best lessons I've had have come from two Brits and a French chap who was married to a brit and spent a lot of time in London.
The reason was the language. They can describe the same thing in many different ways until a numpty like me suddenly grasps what they're talking about. For someone using a second language this isn't always a possibility.
My kids are also more comfortable with Brits as they're only ickle.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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marc gledhill, I understand your point, particularly re the little ones. I just meant that in OUR case the language wasn't an issue. We weren't having to uderstand lots of technical explanation, it was more 'do what I do' no bend ze knees more!, no plant that pole'. This may be related to our status as noobs! 
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Come on, guys, you are going to have to start listening to alternative opinions.
Getting stressed out at the first sign of a challenging viewpoint is rather narrow-minded, some might say.
You do not always have to agree with my stance, but going all redfaced or frothy about it doesn't do you any favors.
Some of you do a great job of arguing back. But please don't get too excited. It is only a Web forum, after all.
Anyway, back to the above point. I stand by my comments.
Consumers often make buying-decisions based on perception. On balance, the perception, in my opinion, is that Brit schools are overpriced. Some of the previous postings clearly reflect that perception among punters.
Further, if the Brit school system is so outstandingly good, where are all their outputs in the form of Gold Medalists and World Champions? (And I mean proper ones, not someone who came top for a madeup championship in the backend of nowhere).
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FAQ
I think there was premium for Supreme (say 25-33%). that has to be weighed against the benefits of fluent english and restricted class sizes. It should also be remembered that their admin costs v number of instructors must be a higher ratio than ESF.
