 Poster: A snowHead
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I'd like any informed opinions on these.
also see buy/sell forum if U r interested in buying one/some
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Everything I've heard or read suggests that you need to practise with them, preferably as part of a search team, to really make them effective.
I've never searched in snow, but I have trained in underwater search, and knowing how to set up an effective pattern to cover the required area with the available number of people, without missing any part, requires practise - I would think searching an avalanche would be the same.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are many opinions u - I have used the old "original" Ortovox analogue and the newer "Tracker" digital models. While many "pros" swear by various Ortovox and other makes, in my experience the "Tracker" types are without fail much more successful when being used by inexperienced/infrequent users. (There are others on the market now similar to the "Tracker".)
However, there is a massive difference between using any of these devices in a simulated situation where the snow is not too deep (foot or two) and not steep, and where you know that no-one is really buried. Try practising on a slope covered in deep snow (skis off=sink and stick, climbing up - forget it) and then imagine that slope has massive avalanche debris + people buried somewhere. 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How often do you expect to use these devices "for real"?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Surely the idea is that you have one so that you'll never need it?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes - perhaps I should modify that slightly! My comments arise following my trip to Ste Foy in Jan, when of course we did the obligatory practice sessions. I have taken part in many of these in the past, but almost always they are set up on fairly flat ground and in every case it has been possible to walk (or at least stumble) around in ski boots. The hardest one up till this year was when several (I think 3 or 4) transceivers were buried.
This time however our nice guide man (Nick Parks of MountainTracks) set us up on the steep and deep! On the first occasion we found the two victims quite quickly but I then had to spend about 15 mins climbing 10 metres or so (yes I am serious) back up to retrieve my poles, pack and gloves which I had left above us.
Second time not quite so steep but even deeper. I think we found 3 and lost 2 on that occasion.
Ian - The answer is - for your party NEVER is your hope! But you may see or come across others who have been caught out so always be prepared.
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So transceiver practice obligatory before going off piste. I guess we don't hear the "skiers trapped in avalanche, all safe" headlines. Didn't Prince Charles get caught up in an avalanche style event a few years ago?
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In view of the fact that many avalanches take place near pistes Ian (usually caused by folk thinking "that looks a nice bit of snow over there") I reckon I have an obligation to always wear my transceiver and carry a shovel and probe (hence need for pack if kevin ever finds this thread!). Doubtful if the victims in that sort of case would be wearing them but you never know - and if you see it happen you might get a good idea of where to start looking anyway.
Yes, I remember that one of his mates was killed but none of the details. I have an idea that they were just traversing something - that's a notorious way of setting them off they say.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Alan Craggs wrote: |
This time however our nice guide man (Nick Parks of MountainTracks) set us up on the steep and deep! On the first occasion we found the two victims quite quickly but I then had to spend about 15 mins climbing 10 metres or so (yes I am serious) back up to retrieve my poles, pack and gloves which I had left above us.
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Interesting, this is an account of an exercise which echoes what you say:
http://www.pistehors.com/articles/avalanche/avalanche_rescue.htm
On the same site there is a tutorial video which you can watch and it also makes the point of the time taken to walk back up to a victim.[url][/url]
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That's a good find sherman (always a good site that)! I still wonder how the dogs manage in deep soft snow though (I did a similar dog exercise in Fernie where they buried Mark Ogilvie (yes Ian I still think they should have dug him out  ) but the snow was slightly firm.
What that last sentence doesn't say is that 45 minutes was about 3 times too long if they wanted to find them alive.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've got an old-style Ortovox F1 (bought a while ago) and as others have said, it's not easy to use, so I'll probably get a Tracker as soon as I have some spare cash. With the new gear, off-piste is so much easier and accessible than it was, so I reckon most decent skiers should routinely carry tranceiver/shovel/probe and know how to use them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Having just returned from the pub after many beers I feel I can offer an objective and helpful training suggestion.
We should all get together with our avalanche tranceivers and (at the pub) attach some (in transmit mode) to hidden beers, then try and find them. On finding a tranceiver you may drink the pint.
The beer (previously) drunk will simulate harsh terrain and confussion
How does that sound?
or should I just go to bed?
Seriously - I am planning to get a barryvox marmut but I don't know how I'm supposed to get a ny practice with it?
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When it comes to transceivers stu two is definitely more fun than one
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