 Poster: A snowHead
|
In a textbook example of the blind leading the blind by the instruction book 5 brave snowheads ventured onto the dangerous steeps and deeps of the foothills with an assortment of avalanche transcievers to see what all the fuss was about.
The brave souls involved, Spyderjon, SHello, Chalky, eng_ch et moi (french  !) started the venture in the tavern where all good adventures start, and after a few beeping and farting noises (mostly from the transceivers) and a quick play with shovels and probes, we ventured forth. In our grubby mitts we clutched a plethora of beepy technology in the form of 3 Ortovox M2's, 2 DTS Trackers, an Ortovox X1 and a partridge in a pear tree.
The brave 'posse' had worked out how to turn everything on by this point. The Ortovox units being automatically activated by clipping the right bits of harness in, the DTS with a push and turn rotary switch. We also learned that Spyderjon and Debs were not quite the innocents that we had been led to believe as he regaled us with stories of testing her beep before he let her out on the slope.
As we had 2 DTS's and Yours truly had just bought the M2 and wanted to play with it, we press-ganged Chalky into hiding a DTS somewhere on the hill. I should at this point say that if you're watching for a 'last seen' point before starting your search don't ever ski with Chalky, he's a sneeky git and bound to fall somewhere on the opposite side of the mountain to where you saw him about to fall... In other words he laid a false trail!
So it was into search mode for the X1, M2's and the other DTS. Well almost, the DTS starts up in transmit mode, so we all found Spyderjon who was standing about 3 feet from us. When he got the unit into search (press and hold the button), another pulse appeared and the game was afoot.
The problem was Chalky was over 100m away and the M2's were showing something at 35m's. There was NOTHING within 35m's - apart from one bloke who clearly wasn't wearing ski kit... but he WAS on the mobile phone. Do phones have an influence on transceivers ? Our evidence says YES. Turn those phones off around transceivers. Having eliminated this helpful young Frenchman from our enquiries we made our way up the mountain in a search pattern.
The M2 was the first to pick up a signal, and a faint beep could be heard, another lesson here was that if there is any kind of background noise you really want the headphones in there, the first beeps are very quiet indeed. By walking up the slope the beeps became louder until the M2 went into directional mode. At this point the other searchers had also started to get signals and were also heading my way. RTFM paid off here, having looked at the book and played with the thing in my hotel room I'd learned that I have to follow flux lines (which seem to be a bit like the force but more bendy). That means that the arrow indicates the direction of flux not the direction to the lost transmitter. Keeping the arrow head lit up means you're following the flux line - orientation of the unit helps here too. So walking in a curve I made my way towards our victim.
The M2 has a number of sensitivity settings and as one gets closer it prompts you to reduce the sensitivity to zero in on your target. I was happily following the flux lines and doing this as Spyderjon strode past to almost exactly where the unit was hidden. The Tracker is easy to use on the close search. The M2 was also fairly simple and using a cross method we were able to pinpoint our lost box exactly before lifting the matting Chalky had hidden it under. The most notable thing was that at the time the mat was lifted EVERYONE was in the same place. All three units had pinpointed the hidden transceiver and well within 5 minutes of starting our search. The unit was recovered alive.
Now, if there is one thing I've learned over the weekend it's that snowheads don't do things by half. So we decided to go multi-victim. This time yours truely hid a DTS and an M2. Taking a leaf out of Mr Chalky's book I was also a sneaky b***er and hid the two units within about 20m of each other one in a hole (which had to be filled in for good measure) and the other in a prickly bush.
On this search the results were more interesting, the M2 and X1 got our search crew quickly to the accident site. And then the X1 operator (SHello) reported an interesting double beep as he wandered around the wrong side of the clearing. eng_ch also accused me of strapping the unit to a passing furry animal as the signal appeared to be jumping around. The DTS in the hands of spyderjon was also giving confusing messages as he stood right on top of the first 'victim' while still swinging the unit around intently.
eng_ch had actually manged to get right between the two transmitters and was quite confused. To be honest I have no recollection of exactly where Chalky at got to at this point, clearly not near either of the hidden units. Just as I was looking round Spyderjon swooped and found the first hidden unit. He turned it off and everyone quickly made a beeline for the last one. Lesson learned - multi search is a lot harder than a single search (the DTS was still in single search mode, despite knowing there were multiple victims Spyderjon had fogotten to activate the mutli-victim setting).At this point the realism kicked in, not only was it bloody cold but we could also make out faint calls for help. As it happened from the fully loaded lift that we were playing under - wouldn't want to be stuck in that! We decided to inform the lift company on the off chance that they didn't know that 500 people were stranded between stations and we headed slowly back.
The big moral here is practice, practice and more practice - it needs to be an automatic reflex to follow the yellow brick beep. Playing with multiple singals on the M2 it wasn't too hard to get used to isolating them, but it does take experience.
Our bold adventurers also noted that the DTS had not picked up any signal until the m2 and x1 had lead our crew to the search site. So we decided to test the range of the units. Once again a DTS was hidden by our 'tell the lift crew team' and an M2 and DTS were used to search. The M2 certainly had a far better range, picking up the signal a good tennis court width beore the DTS. Within a couple of minutes I had located the hidden unit and was standing holding it as SHello continued to wander around a few meters away looking in the other direction. Feeling smug that I'd beaten the DTS's uberquick end search, it was just a matter of waiting until he looked round. I turned off my M2 and waited for a few seconds. He looked up grinned and turned the DTS off, probably thinking that he'd been close enough - of course we were both wrong, the DTS had gone past because the sneaky gits had 2 other units transmitting in their pockets. Those victims died. The moral - never assume it makes an ass out of you and me.
The moral of the story - Analog for long range, Digital for ease of use but all the units need practice. Above all, it doesn't matter which unit you have as long as you have one and know how to use it. We recovered 4 out of our 6 victims within 10 minutes - a lot faster than a piste patrol could have been there, and 3 of those in under 4 minutes.
I should also mention that it makes you feel a bit like Batman following Joker to his hidden lair and is a hell of a lot of fun - even in the cold! But it was vin chaud all the way round afterwards! I'd encourage everyone to have a play at the MSB or when ever you get the chance to get a few units together, even if you're never likely to carry one it's fun to play. If you do carry one then certainly practice and unless you saw the slide - don't assume there's only one guy under there - practice with multi-search.
Thanks to everyone in the gang for a great afternoon. We're looking forward to trying that out on the snow with hidden packs and skis on our feet!
A final thought...
I wonder if I get eng_ch to wear it in the co-op if I'll have a better chance of finding her when she wanders off into the chocolate section.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
An interesting read Rutschen, it looks like the beeper session was well worth doing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Rutschen, ....good stuff..! I enjoyed that......!
| Quote: |
The problem was Chalky was over 100m away and the M2's were showing something at 35m's. There was NOTHING within 35m's - apart from one bloke who clearly wasn't wearing ski kit... but he WAS on the mobile phone. Do phones have an influence on transceivers ? Our evidence says YES.
|
I was quite interested in this phenomenon - our French cousin definitely did not have a transceiver? It has been established though, that mobile phones can affect transceivers in search mode. An avalanche report, which I read recently, suggests that such an incident contributed to the death of a buried skier. The buried skier also had a mobile phone and it was initially thought that this was the culprit. However, it was later established that it was a searchers phone that caused the phantom signal.
I congratulate you on your brave mission & propose you for the snowHeads Cross. It will be a comfort skiing with you knowing you are a '4-Minute Rescue' 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Can't confirm that your average French chap on the evening out isn't 'packing heat' but it seemed unlikely, we'd turned our phones off... earlier experiments in the bedroom had shown that the mobile was found when 'tracking'.
Thanks for the nomination, we're pleased to be the 4-Minute rescue team - After being placed in the Kevin Bloody Wilson fan club, It's better than 5 seconds...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Rutschen, Great write-up. It certainly was an interesting session.
I've been playing around with our DTS's today in the field out back as I was concerned that in the first search in LDA my digy DTS only picked up the signal from 25 metres out compared to almost double that on the Ortovox units but then on the second exercise I got a reading at 50 metres out, although this was still slighly later than the 'audible first' detection from the Orto's.
The reason for this is simple (& is clearly stated in the DTS's instructions  ) in that the DTS unit (& possibly all transceivers?) should be held horizontally but rotated through 180 degrees whilst in the horizontal plane to enable it to pick-up the curved 'flux line' transmissions from the victim's unit. I didn't do this important sweeping action in any of the LDA exercises so it's then a matter of luck if/when you pick up a flux line. In the field today I managed to get a reading at 70 meters but I also managed to get to 22 meters of the transmitting unit by deliberately avoiding the flux lines to see how close I could get without a reading.
My conclusion is that model selection is really a matter of personal choice (ie I opted for the DTS as the read-out is really big, bright & clear for my dodgy eyes as I won't have access to my reading spec in an emergency & I couldn't read the Orto's screen in the fading light) but that whatever unit is purchased that practice is paramount as I knew that the unit needed to be 'swept' through a horizontal arc & I knew how to use the multiple burial button but I didn't do either of these things in the exercises.
BTW, once a user has located a signal with the DTS it really is amazingly quick to use the directional lights/distance reading to home in on the transmitter as I was able to move at a brisk walk straight to the victim's location, although I didn't try the Orto units so I can't say if they're better or worse in this respect.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| spyderjon wrote: |
Rutschen, Great write-up. It certainly was an interesting session.
My conclusion is that model selection is really a matter of personal choice (ie I opted for the DTS as the read-out is really big, bright & clear for my dodgy eyes as I won't have access to my reading spec in an emergency & I couldn't read the Orto's screen in the fading light) but that whatever unit is purchased that practice is paramount as I knew that the unit needed to be 'swept' through a horizontal arc & I knew how to use the multiple burial button but I didn't do either of these things in the exercises.
BTW, once a user has located a signal with the DTS it really is amazingly quick to use the directional lights/distance reading to home in on the transmitter as I was able to move at a brisk walk straight to the victim's location, although I didn't try the Orto units so I can't say if they're better or worse in this respect. |
Thanks jon, yep I agree totally - it's whatever suits you, there may be a best but if you can't read the readout or it doesn't sit nicely in your pocket or is too tricky to configure then it's pointless carrying it as a rescue device.
The sweeping helps a lot - and you need to do it at a speed that's appropriate to the reaction time of your unit. Some respond faster than others.
I'll second that DTS end search - it's was amazing how fast you stole the finds
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Interesting read, sounds like it was worth it.
You could have hidden the "victim" in the bar instead, saves time then 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
I'd like to add a thank you to SHello for actually getting our act together in the first place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rutschen,
Great write up. Were you all starting straight from the box?
Can I vote to make a sticky?
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Rutschen,
| Quote: |
... earlier experiments in the bedroom had shown that the mobile was found when 'tracking'.
|
...my earlier comment
| Quote: |
It will be a comfort skiing with you
|
.....is being revised............. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
It’s great news that you guys are out there practising with your beepers. Experience is the most important tool when it comes to staying alive up the mountain. So PLEASE make use of someone else’s experience. Not holding a beeper flat is a school boy error, I’m delighted that you found out about this while messing around. However if you had an experienced DVA user they would have told you straight away how to hold and move the beeper. You can only learn this stuff from someone who is well trained and well practised.
If it was as easy as following the little arrows on the screen then fine, get on with it. It’s not. As you have learnt it takes a fair bit of skill to locate and recover a signal. Imagine trying to do this in 1 or 2m high blocks of ice.
Most guides are happy to have a beeper familiarisation session before taking you out and many resorts / companies now offer specific beeper training. Practising with bad habits just makes the situation worse.
Please learn good habits from the start.
I’m really not knocking your efforts, but for your own safety (and possibly my own) you must use correct techniques with the beepers, search patterns and strategies…
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
parlor, the thing is, reading about it (or being told about it) and actually doing it are totally different. I think it was good to find out in practice exactly how much of an effect these things can have. Just doing it right first time doesn't always bring it home to you as thoroughly as seeing the effects of doing it wrong. I now know it's very easy to tilt the thing when you're concentrating hard on it, even when you know you shouldn't. I don't think anyone was under any illusion that it would be a darned sight harder on a non-solid surface, in ski boots - and especially in a panic situ. I for one found it a very valuable experiment and it has just whetted my appetite for more practice.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
eng_ch, which is why I think that ideally you need to be shown how to correctly use the devices and how to implement a search pattern. As you say reading, or being tokd, about it doesn't really help that much.
Learn the right way first off. Then practise.
I know these are practise sessions and, as I said above, I'm very happy you're doing them so don't be defensive. But when you're doing it for real there is NO chance for trial and error... Bad habits = death.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
parlor, sorry, didn't intend to come across as defensive. Was just pointing out that even being shown (told) isn't the same as experimentation and actually doing and both are valuable. We certainly are planning on doing more/finding out more and have some recommendations for people to contact in the resorts we'll be in this year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Wish I could have been with you instead of stuck in a lift que
even if parlor, thinks you wasted your time, I would have found it useful.
I know from been an instructor in many things. More is understood and taken in when people are comfortable and relaxed. Once the basic's are covered you can then put the stress factors to ensure it can be used when needed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| fatbob wrote: |
Rutschen,
Great write up. Were you all starting straight from the box?
|
Thanks fatbob, glad you enjoyed the read. Yes this was pretty much, I know eng_ch and I had read a whole lot of the theory (and I've been playing with radio signals of different types since I was in short trousers). We had an overview instruction when we bought our tansceivers (that day), but there is nothing like holding it your hand. And Spyderjon certainly had some experience using the DTS.
But this was pretty much experimentation and I agree with palour that if you practice bad habits you perfect them. I think the trick is to be doing the right things on auto-pilot, it's easy to forget things under pressure so you need to turn knowledge into reflex. I for one will be 'playing' with the experts before I expect to be any use with the things for real.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
While I agree with parlor that it never hurts to be taught properly I can see that experimentation is equally valuable when done in your manner. I'd bet that no-one who did it will forget the point about holding horizontally and sweeping 180 deg now whereas if someone was taught it without being shown why they might forget in the heat of the moment. Likewise the points like remembering to all turn to search at the start.
The accidental single search in a multiple burial is an interesting point. If you have say 3 victims and 5 searchers is there a protocol which would say 1 or 2 of the searchers use single search mode only to maximise chances/minimise confusion? I'm at the limits of my knowledge here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Nick_C, did I say waste of time? I think not. I was pointing out the importance of learning the correct techniques from the outset. As an instructor don’t you get fed up with trying to ‘unteach’ peoples bad habits. Read my post(s) again. I wasn’t having a go, I think that practise is the key with beepers, if practising in a ‘relaxed’ environment suits you, knock yourself out. I’d just recommend getting someone experienced to show you how to use them. Do a search on here if you like. I am the number 1 advocate for beeper carrying, understanding & practise.
Beepers are simple looking things aren't they? Only a couple of knobs / switches / dials. You can have analogue or digital (or both). And you've only got to follow the noise / arrows / whatever. What could be easier??? I'd never ski avalanche terrain with anyone who agrees with these points.
fatbob Skiing with too many people again are you The DTS has a special mode for multiple burials, which should be used if you are familiar with using it. Normal search mode is possibly more efficient for people that are less experienced with their equipment. So perhaps, having the luxury of 5 searchers (all using DTS) you might keep some in normal search mode. The only thing I would be worried about not using multiple mode is ‘normal’ mode being confused if two of the signals are close to each other, normal mode in DTS just goes off the strongest signal it can find.
To answer your question though, the protocol would be agreed after evaluating the situation and discovering all 5 searchers are wearing Trackers…
Multiple burials are a very tricky scenario to deal with whatever the conditions and whatever beeper you are using. Another advantage of analogue beepers in well trained hands…
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
parlor, I just found the tone of your post to be negitive.
Having re read it I still come to the conclusion that you feel unless you are been instructed by a qualified person it is a waste of time.
If I ever get into the position of needing someone to find me, I would be glad that Rutschen, and the others had had some experience rather than none at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
