| What percentage of your time is spent on piste whilst ski-ing? |
| 95% On-piste |
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50% |
[ 69 ] |
| 75% On-piste |
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24% |
[ 33 ] |
| 50% On-piste |
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14% |
[ 20 ] |
| 25% On-piste |
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5% |
[ 7 ] |
| 5% On-piste |
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4% |
[ 6 ] |
| Option for people who don't really want to commit themselves to anything but want to see the result |
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1% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Voted : 137 |
| Total Votes : 137 |
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I can't remember if I've polled on this before! I've not included the snow park in my calculations, anybody who spends significant time there is welcome to comment and I'm treating anything off-piste as the same...
I ski 95% on piste... I had an instructor in Austria who was keen on going off piste so had a couple of days of meadow ski-ing at about my third week and I've started ski-ing a little bit off the edge of pistes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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50% for me.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Hmm may I suggest a minor adjustment to the "skiing" question? For me for example "it all depends". If I am on a specific type of trip with a guide then it will be 95-100% off piste. If I'm on a "ski holiday" on my own or with friends then I'll look for opportunities to go off here and there but try to be aware of my limitations - take Flaine for instance; there are a lot of potholes around which have literally been death traps for the unwary. How many "holiday" skiers would be aware of that before zooming off into a "nice bit over there"? And there's always the avalanche danger plus what do you do if it all goes pear shaped - you break a leg in the back country or end up in a white-out with cliffs below? So on that type of trip it may be 5% off and 95% on.
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Yoda, this could get a bit too scientific. If I look back at the skiing I've done over, say, the last 5 years, then it's about 50/50.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yoda, I was looking for a crude measure integrated over a number of visits 
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What's all this off piste stuff about  Never had the chance to try and wondered what all the excitement is about. I did come off a long drag lift once and tried to get back on piste through deep snow but it was all rather hard work. Can anyone tell me what the attraction and the buzz about unpisted snow is.
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Headplant, speaking as one who voted 95% on piste... you can leave the crowds behind and skiing through unpisted snow can be great fun.
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50/50 - at least partly because of the need to ski with young family, who will be whipping my butt in the powder in a few years time 
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It all depends on the resort & easy access to off-piste, for me. So the amount can vary tremendously.
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Headplant off piste skiing is more challenging than piste skiing, both in terms of technique, as well as level of fitness, and in a way, learning to ski well on piste, including black runs, is just the start of learning to ski. When it does come together it's just so much fun though, as it's fluffier, and your skis feel as if they're floating on air, you can go places where there is nobody else around, you can try stuff that's a little bit steeper, but not cut up into moguls, and you get a lovely powder spray of snow on every turn. Plus if you fall over, it generally doesn't hurt, although finding a ski can be a bit of a struggle.
You tend to find that the bug bites gradually, the first time or two, you wonder what all the fuss is about, and then you gradually doing it more and more often.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'd like to vote in the poll but there's no button for '100 % On Piste'
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My goal is to ski off piste but to stay in a resort and to use the lifts where possible. In practice this means skiing lots of piste to get to and from the off piste. For example, when staying in Val d'Isere if I do any of the Tignes off piste areas then there is a significant amount of piste to get there and back. Mornings are normally four hours of hard skiing. Afternoons I tend to be lazy and pootle around the pistes for an hour or two, unless the weather is poor or the pistes are crowded and dangerous. In my mind there is no sense in forcing myself onto unpleasant piste skiing just because I am in a ski resort. So I gues my goal is 75% off and 25% on piste, but the actual figures could be 45% off and 55% on. So I will vote 50%.
Headplant, skiing is about more than just skiing. Sure there is all that Kramer describes so well. I enjoy improving my skills and going places that few others can go safely or competently -- and I'm not a great skier, I have seen many skiers go to places that are way beyond my skills. There is also a whole other mountain experience that you cannot get from the pistes. Why do people walk in the countryside, admire sunsets, watch birds and animals? Off piste has the same appeal of getting away from the crowds and seeing the mountains in all their glory.
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You know it makes sense.
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There's also conditions to consider, when there's powder available it's superb, but if it's all crusty, sometimes it's better staying on pisted runs.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I kinda wonder about this one - even on the days that I take out my fat skis, and spend all day skiing off piste, given the lifts/pistes I'd need to take to get there, and spend the day skiing there, it would still only be about 75% off piste for the day.
I guess if I hiked for every turn, and didn't go near a piste or lift, it might be more.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wear The Fox Hat, I think maybe La Ros has all day off piste with its 12m of powder
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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boredsurfin, virtual Shangri-La
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yeah, like others above I try and spend as much time off-piste as I can, but in reality it's probably not as much as I think. I'll go for 50/50.
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Last season improving my off piste was the single goal i set myself so I guess I went from a 5/95 to 75/25. Still plenty of room for improvement but the only snow codition we didn't manage to find was Kramer's fluffy stuff, but that's the real challenge, to be able to ski whatever the mountain throws at you and have fun at the same time.
I'll put crust in adifferent category for the moment - tried hard but more of a survival exercise than fun
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm really not interested in skiing off piste at all. I like making really nice turns on piste, and think that a really good pisted red run is just the best thing. I have skied off piste a little bit but just hate powdery stuff. Love the hard icy stuff. This means I'm probably weird, but I don't care. I'd be quite happy never to go off piste again.
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docsquid, No your not weird, its just that on piste techniques are different to off piste and don't always come naturally. I include myself in that category.
If you get frustrated in your quest for that perfect on piste carve take some time out and have an off piste lesson, a whole new world opens up.
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I suspect most good skiers desperately over rate the actual time they spent off piste. (Apart from the bloke who drops in sensational pictures of the latest peak he's hiked up to and skied down. Davidof ?)
I like to think I'm a good skier for a late starter doing a couple of weeks a year but if I'm honest I'd say I probably spend 15% of my time, on any given day, off piste. In particular I like 'good' moguls so you need a reasonable amount of skiers to generate them. Even if you do a day's guided you often spend 25% min. on-piste.
(At the Eosb with probably the most suited skis, on my/the off piste day, I had a nightmare though on the one set of moguls we did and they were on piste.)
As an aspiration I'd like to do what Davidof does but in reality I never will or am extremely unlikely to. Who is going to pay me to do that.
So I'm going to put 25%.
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OverTheHill, vote for 95% on piste 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| rich wrote: |
| docsquid, No your not weird, its just that on piste techniques are different to off piste and don't always come naturally. |
Actually, the technique is pretty much the same. It's just that the snow conditions off-piste (especially powder) will amplify any weakness in technique.
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Tim Brown, OK I'll bite.
I know a lot of strong on piste skiers who flounder off piste. I've also seen plenty of people who can ski off piste OK and do not have any superior on piste skills. Not being able to hack it off piste has nothing to do with on piste weaknesses.
I stick by what I said, there are some significant differences, not particularly difficult or technical, just different.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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rich, could outline these significant differences?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A strong on piste skier can be just strong, using muscles and strength to overcome lack of technique. I have skied with competent people on piste, some would call them good skiers, people who can ski fast and in control. But half way down every piste they need a rest stop and after three pistes they are exhausted. They use their strength to control their skis. How often have your heard people say their thighs are burning after one or two pistes? The more skilled a skier is the less strength they need. And more so off piste where any lack of technique quickly becomes apparant. I support Tim's view: the same technique is used, it is just that you need to do it properly off piste.
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Adrian, I been doing some thinking and I have to say that, as far as powder goes, there are some subtle changes that need to be made. Totally agree with you about skiers who use brute force, though. They will look good on-piste but struggle in the powder.
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You know it makes sense.
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Tim Brown, I understand what you are saying. I'm definitely not in the category of using brute force: being a very tiny woman with very bad lungs means I don't have this option. However I can ski right down a fairly long piste without stopping, and generally ski all day apart from a short lunch break - the only time I get tired is when the pistes have got bumpy, as bumps technique is a bit more active and hard work!
I just don't like going off-piste, other than the moguls at the side of the piste, because I just prefer to ski on piste. When I do ski in powder, I don't use brute force because it seems to me to be an excellent way of getting injured. I think it is because I prefer a racing style, and going fast, that I prefer on piste!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Tim Brown, my assumption is that we are talking about competent on piste skiers who occaisionally go off piste on their standard kit and get no enjoyment out of it and can't understand what the fuss is all about i.e. no fat skis. Basically talking onpiste carvers to mid fat. Fat skis let you get away with murder.
If you just take a few of the basic on piste characteristics of emphasis on edge control, outside ski dominance and hip angulation none are of any benefit in deep snow and the latter two are the source of most of the problems.
Off piste is really a lot less technical, it requires both skis to act together with an even weight distribution. Hip angulation and setting on edge gets replaced with a body extension and unloading of the skis, if you extend fully you can start the turn with even weight on both feet if you use your hips it tends to load the outside ski immediately. Turn initiation is more upright and shoulder lead.
Its only in the last couple of seasons that I made any real improvement in off piste. I'm no expert but can now get around without being on my tails and without thigh and everthing else burn.
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Poster: A snowHead
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docsquid, the racing style and going fast is what off-piste is all about for the new breed of freeriders.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Tim Brown, then I'm obviously the old breed
Maybe one day I'll enjoy it. At the moment I don't.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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rich, there are subtle differences, but the new school style and all mountain skis, mean you don't need to make big adaptations to your technique. But it goes back to what I said before; bad technical ability will be amplified when skiing off-piste.
Now, you talked about one being 'more upright and shoulder lead', I'm basically saying that the subtle changes are made at foot level and above that you should look the same.
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| docsquid wrote: |
Tim Brown, then I'm obviously the old breed
Maybe one day I'll enjoy it. At the moment I don't. |
Do you do short swings or long turns?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rich, I disagree entirely I'm afraid. Although you might choose to use subtle differences off piste the same techniques you've described work just as well. The only real exception would be the bottomless powder of Utah. What gets anyone into trouble off piste is any rotation whether it's leg, hip or shoulder - bang down you go. Also you do have to be more patient with the skis off piste - the resistence of the snow means they take longer to turn, and lots of peeps try to force it, and bang - down they go!
docsquid, No problem with liking piste skiing. You will probably eventually start to like off piste, but it's horses for courses.
I voted 75% on piste cos I'm usually teaching and that is usually on piste ... I like both though. 
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Well, the week I went ski-touring I guess it was 99% off-piste. Most unusual - but on a good week, the piste is a series of links for the off-piste. I voted for 25% on-piste - but that is indulging in really wishful thinking. Conditions and the right company/leader have to coincide.
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I stated 50:50 which is based on my estimate for last season for other seasons it would be less off piste.
If you discount time climbing to the run, walk out at the end, waiting for fallers, falling over yourself trying to find lost skis in the powder, my time would also fall a lot of off piste time is not spent actually skiing for me
Some areas it depends a bit on how you classify ski routes, frequently skied runs that become packed etc.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
Do you do short swings or long turns? |
I do all sorts of turns, depending on the conditions. I like short swings, but can do long turns, and can do turns where you steer with the edge or steer by rotation of the skis or a mixture of both. In the last powdery stuff I tried, I was concentrating on using the edges, not rotating the skis, and not trying to do any racy long -leg short-leg stuff. I was told to do the stretching up and settling onto the edges thing, and also concentrate on a smooth transition from edge to edge. I did fairly short turns, simply because to do longer turns would slow you down too much.
I DO tend to put more stress on the downhill ski than uphill ski, and I was obviously doing that wrong - something I've been working on during the Summer at the Snowdome. However my legs didn't hurt at the bottom of the pitch that we did (sort of blue/red steepness, not very steep).
Maybe one day I will enjoy it. So many people like off-piste it must have something going for it!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
So many people like off-piste it must have something going for it!
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Lack of crowds, quietness, more wild life, beautiful views, greater variety of skiing and occasionally better snow. 
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docsquid, sounds like you're in good shape to tackle off-piste to me. I think the whole point is to try and develop our technique to the point where we can enjoy the whole mountain in all (skiable/safe) snow conditions.
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FAQ
