 Poster: A snowHead
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Plans to merge the various National Snowsport organisations with BASI and SCGB under a new umbrella organisation with the merging of the coaching organisations seem to be progressing with Snowsport England calling a EGM to vote on proposals in November full details of the proposals can be downloaded as a PDF from the following:
http://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/notice_of_an_egm-1522.html
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 2-11-06 16:58; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kevinrhead, The title of your thread doesn't reflect what is proposed.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If this continues as certain organisations wish and there should be a vote to vote Snowsport Scotland out of existance I'd fully expect a breakaway to re-establish a Scottish Organisation that does not recognise the UK bodies. Merging all the snowsport organisations into a UK one can only be BAD NEWS for Scottish Snowsports. It's not modernisation, its an obliteration of Scottish Snowsports interests and representation. The Scottish organisations should play no part in this.
The population factor would sway such a single ogranisation to the interests of the South East, a snowsports industry based around dry slopes, snow domes, and over seas based competetions and off course the overseas holiday market. Such an organisation could only further maginalise home grown snowsports, the needs of Scottish Snowsports with a home grown snowsports industry is very different. We only need to observe the ignorance sometimes displayed by the SCGB to UK snow based snowsports to see the potential problems.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 2-11-06 16:40; edited 1 time in total
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| It's not modernisation, its an obliteration of Scottish Snowsports interests and representation. |
Why would that be the case? As a complete outsider I'd have thought that Scottish skiing would be the strongest constituency in any new setup?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rjs, Accept my original title did not reflect the what is proposed overall but I was reading it as an instructor and the proposals certainly seem to suggest that there will be a merging of the various coaching bodies.
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As I understand it the proposal is that initially there will be a federal UK Snowsports, sitting on top of a confederation of the existing national bodies such as Snowsport Scotland - but the objective is quite clearly that these home nation governing bodies will subsquently vote themselves out of existence and UK Snowsports will become a single central UK wide governing body.
As funding would come through SportScotland and the Scottish Executive in the post home-rule world I can't see such a single entity being as effective or as committed to standing up for Scottish Snowsports (and funding). Rather than having a Scottish organisation where Scottish snowsprots was it's sole purpose for existing, we would have a UK body for which Scottish Snowsports would be a minor issue. I don't see that as being an improvement.
Without going all political on this topic, the reality is that every party but the Labour party will go into the next Scottish General election advocating more powers for the Scottish Parliment, and it seems likley that the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens (and if they get their act together the Socialist groups) will all advance next May. It just seems to me that esp given the current political reality that the currently proposed Snowsports Modernisation (which has good intentions I accept) is going in the wrong direction.
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Within the SCGB (members only)forum, this has been discussed at some length here. The club chairman has advised that the Club has withdrawn from the process. Quite right too, in my view. I mention this only because of the SCGB being mentioned earlier in this thread.
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achilles, The Snowsport Modernisation Paper published by SSE does not mention this and having just read the latest statement from SSE board they are also advising voting against the current proposals but indicted that discussions will still continue
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
As I understand it the proposal is that initially there will be a federal UK Snowsports, sitting on top of a confederation of the existing national bodies such as Snowsport Scotland - but the objective is quite clearly that these home nation governing bodies will subsquently vote themselves out of existence and UK Snowsports will become a single central UK wide governing body.
As funding would come through SportScotland and the Scottish Executive in the post home-rule world I can't see such a single entity being as effective or as committed to standing up for Scottish Snowsports (and funding). Rather than having a Scottish organisation where Scottish snowsprots was it's sole purpose for existing, we would have a UK body for which Scottish Snowsports would be a minor issue. I don't see that as being an improvement.
Without going all political on this topic, the reality is that every party but the Labour party will go into the next Scottish General election advocating more powers for the Scottish Parliment, and it seems likley that the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens (and if they get their act together the Socialist groups) will all advance next May. It just seems to me that esp given the current political reality that the currently proposed Snowsports Modernisation (which has good intentions I accept) is going in the wrong direction. |
OK, I understand all of that, but how will Scottish snowsports be weakened by an eventual unified body? Surely Scottish snowsport is the strongest of all the home nations in terms of number of participants and depth of experience?
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Rob, given that England has 10times the population of Scotland i doubt the total number of people who participate in snowsports in Scotland is higher than England.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Winterhighland, The discussion papers and the presentation at the open meetings were quite clear that there need to remain home nation bodies to receive targeted funding and that they would ringfence anything that they got. The Snowsport UK branding would be the one that would be strongest though.
Things that I would expect to change would be that there would only be one structure (price list) for annual registration plus whatever happens with the coaching schemes. I am registered with SSE, but I prefer the Snowsport Scotland coaching scheme and simplicity of registration options.
The proposed changes shouldn't affect SCGB anyway, but I would hope that they would not block anything that the home nations wanted.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The point as I understand things is that the funding for wintersports has already been cut, if I understand things correctly unless British snowsports can form themselves into an effective group with one face that funding is likely to be further reduced 
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| Rob, given that England has 10times the population of Scotland i doubt the total number of people who participate in snowsports in Scotland is higher than England. |
But given the heritage of Scottish skiing, is the difference in population between the home countries a bit irrelevant? Of the British instructors and coaches that I'm aware many more are Scottish than would be the case is it was reflecting populations. I would have thought that England and Wales would have been the junior partners?
As a complete outsider it seems odd to me that there has been so much emphasis on developing (and maintaining?) separate structures within UK skiing when surely the focus should be providing a pyramid of support so that the best athletes can compete with the rest of the world, rather than the home nations competing with each other. Or is this too simplistic a view?
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You know it makes sense.
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| D G Orf wrote: |
| The point as I understand things is that the funding for wintersports has already been cut, if I understand things correctly unless British snowsports can form themselves into an effective group with one face that funding is likely to be further reduced |
The modernisation process was started some time before the last funding round from UK Sport. I don't think that it is simply a response to the recent cut in funding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Or is this too simplistic a view? |
Don't think so - perhaps a bit too much internal feuding politics without a greater overall UK vision of what can be achieved.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Whatever the politics, something has to change. Alpine nations scratch their heads in disbelief at what goes on here. Can you imagine if each province of Austria or each Canton in Switzerland "saw ghosts" and suspiciously viewed things the same way as some among our home nations do? Sure, they've got their regional set ups but they all benefit from falling under one big national umbrella. Snowsports in the UK desperately needs better funding and it simply won't happen if modernisation fails.
After the funding cut, the extra funding required can only really come from outside sponsorship. The home nations currently get almost no sponsorship pounds, disciplines like freestyle, nordic, and even snowboarding get virtually zilch. It's all about the British alpine team and, by comparison to the rest, sizeable amounts from the likes of British Land etc.
The vision has to be one UK Spnowsports entity that can harness the spending power of the combined databases (attractive to potential big sponsors), provide a strong national identity and "clean cut, professional canvas" that big potential sponsors might want to see their logos on, and seek to engage the support (financial or otherwise) of the million or so recreational skiers in the UK. This is a billion pound market (if not more) but a fragmented set up like it is can never hope to tap into the river of cash flowing through it. There are travel and merchandising opportunities galore out there and sponsors looking for clean cut, classy opportunities in a sport that engages a million ABC1s. Modernisation has to happen first, then the sponsorship will follow, then the forgotton disciplines and under-funded regions might start to get the money to invest in the future.
Well, that's my bit. Not going to enter into arguments as it is so crystal clear what needs to happen... and it can be done.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
sizeable amounts from the likes of British Land etc.
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What will happen when Ritblat is no longer around. Will BL continue to support the GB team?
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brian
brian
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Hmmmmmm ....
| Latest ICM Poll October '06 wrote: |
Q6. In a referendum for independence for Scotland, how would you vote?
I agree that Scotland should become an independent country 51%
I do not agree that Scotland should become an independent country 39%
Refused/DK 10%
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bode Swiller
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| Well, that's my bit. Not going to enter into arguments as it is so crystal clear what needs to happen... and it can be done. |
Well, carry on then.
I couldn't care less what happens to competitive skiing in the UK. I do hope the funding gets cut even more. But I do pity those poor, middle-class mummies, who will now have to sell their SLKs in order to send their little dharlings to the Alps for a bit of pole bashing. How ever will they cope?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Tim Brown, would love to argue with you but said I wouldn't.
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rob@rar, my attitude goes back to when I had the very great misfortune to share a chalet with a family whose kids raced at national level. The parents whined about the cost. They couldn't understand why they had to pay. The kids were snooty and rude. 'A one off', I thought to myself. Then, ten years later, I shared a chalet in Zermatt with another family that must have been cloned from the first. Then of course there's your chum's attitude...didn't one of his call us all barstewards, or something?
So no, Rob, I don't care. But I will admit to a slight preference for a cut in funding. If that's ok with you, of course?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 3-11-06 14:20; edited 1 time in total
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Bode Swiller, don't argue then, but do tell us where you fit into all this. Because I'm getting the slight whiff of a vested interest coming from you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tim Brown,
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I couldn't care less what happens to competitive skiing in the UK
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and I'm getting the slight whiff of someone just sitting there in their vest
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
Tim Brown,
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I couldn't care less what happens to competitive skiing in the UK
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and I'm getting the slight whiff of someone just sitting there in their vest |
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Come on, Swiller, you just stink of industry involvement. You may as well put your cards on ta table, lad. Time for you to cum clean over your vested interest.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 3-11-06 14:38; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tim Brown, I refer you to the answer I gave a few moments ago
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You know it makes sense.
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Its not going to happen - England are going to vote against - that was the recomendation that went out to the clubs from the SSE My guess is that the Scottish clubs will vote against aswell as when I went to a BOB meeting last year the attitude of the representatives of the downhill clubs present was much as expressed here by Winterhighland. If either SSC or SSE vote against it won't go ahead as each have 25% of the votes and a 75% majority is required for it to go ahead
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After the funding cut, the extra funding required can only really come from outside sponsorship. The home nations currently get almost no sponsorship pounds, disciplines like freestyle, nordic, and even snowboarding get virtually zilch. It's all about the British alpine team and, by comparison to the rest, sizeable amounts from the likes of British Land etc.
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Yep nordic gets very little support, we are also pretty much ignored by SSC aswell who seem to have little or no interest outside of downhill. Biathlon has a bit of money, but only because they organised it themselves and went out and got sponsership which is also what nordic is doing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Winterhighland, there will never be a 'jumpers for goalposts' skiing culture, not even in Scotland. And the idea that a nice, comfortable 'way of life' up in the highlands should be subsidised by the taxpayer is laughable.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
Tim Brown,
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I couldn't care less what happens to competitive skiing in the UK
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and I'm getting the slight whiff of someone just sitting there in their vest |
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While you're here, Rob, I am right about all racers and their families being the same, am I not? For example, all SCGB members are the same, aren't they? As are all chalet-whores?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Winterhighland, there will never be a 'jumpers for goalposts' skiing culture, not even in Scotland. And the idea that a nice, comfortable 'way of life' up in the highlands should be subsidised by the taxpayer is laughable. |
Sufficiently ignorant to not warrant a more detailed reply.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Winterhighland,
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A UK snowsports body will also likely be hampered in it's search for funding by the English perception of class and off the type of people that go skiing as kind of shown by Tim Brown above ! Mountain sports doesn't attract that 'stigma' in Scotland - a home snowsports industry creates a very different market and very different culture/attitude to snowsports. A key drive needed for Scottish Snowsports is to gain Executive support to modernise and develop the snowsport areas and increase participation amongst school kids (something that still is to get anything close to the level it was before the Thatcher effect!).
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Sorry, but you really need to get out more. This paragraph neatly demonstrates why Dave Horsley is absolutely right to say
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Its not going to happen
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bode Swiller wrote: |
Winterhighland,
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A UK snowsports body will also likely be hampered in it's search for funding by the English perception of class and off the type of people that go skiing as kind of shown by Tim Brown above ! Mountain sports doesn't attract that 'stigma' in Scotland - a home snowsports industry creates a very different market and very different culture/attitude to snowsports. A key drive needed for Scottish Snowsports is to gain Executive support to modernise and develop the snowsport areas and increase participation amongst school kids (something that still is to get anything close to the level it was before the Thatcher effect!).
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Sorry, but you really need to get out more. This paragraph neatly demonstrates why Dave Horsley is absolutely right to say
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Its not going to happen
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Your catching on, its not going to happen! 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 3-11-06 15:22; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Winterhighland wrote: |
| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Winterhighland, there will never be a 'jumpers for goalposts' skiing culture, not even in Scotland. And the idea that a nice, comfortable 'way of life' up in the highlands should be subsidised by the taxpayer is laughable. |
Sufficiently ignorant to not warrant a more detailed reply. |
You'll be wanting to run your cars on pink diesel next - which I'm sure some of you do already!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Winterhighland wrote: |
| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Winterhighland, there will never be a 'jumpers for goalposts' skiing culture, not even in Scotland. And the idea that a nice, comfortable 'way of life' up in the highlands should be subsidised by the taxpayer is laughable. |
Sufficiently ignorant to not warrant a more detailed reply. |
You'll be wanting to run your cars on pink diesel next - which I'm sure some of you do already! |
What I would like to see and what the Ski Areas would like to see is something of a more level playing field, the EU is after all supposed to be a Single Market. The Scottish industry gets the least state assistance, is the most marginal yet operates with probably the least helpful tax set-up.
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As Winterhighland, intimates one of the worries that the alpine clubs in the SSC have with centralisation is that the way the sport is developed at the grass roots in Scotland will be lost. SSC does a lot more grass roots development of (alpine) skiing than SSE does. Note though SSC do very little for Nordic in comparison. I'd also point out a large wadge of cash was 'wasted' in paying consultants to device the plans for a new UK governing body.
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| Quote: |
| What I would like to see and what the Ski Areas would like to see is something of a more level playing field, the EU is after all supposed to be a Single Market. The Scottish industry gets the least state assistance, is the most marginal yet operates with probably the least helpful tax set-up. |
...and has the worst weather.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 3-11-06 15:22; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| Bode Swiller wrote: |
Tim Brown,
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I couldn't care less what happens to competitive skiing in the UK
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and I'm getting the slight whiff of someone just sitting there in their vest |
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While you're here, Rob, I am right about all racers and their families being the same, am I not? For example, all SCGB members are the same, aren't they? As are all chalet-whores? |
No, who cares and no.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What I would like to see and what the Ski Areas would like to see is something of a more level playing field, the EU is after all supposed to be a Single Market. The Scottish industry gets the least state assistance, is the most marginal yet operates with probably the least helpful tax set-up. |
...and has the worst weather. |
Don't be such a woose! 
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FAQ
The UK is the only state in the EU with a snowsports industry that doesn't classify uplift as VAT exempt public transport, this put's the Scottish industry at a huge disadvantage, esp as other UK taxation policy means you can fly to the Alps from Glasgow for less than the cost of petrol to drive an average family car from Glasgow to CairnGorm Mountain and back! 
