II, sure, absolutely, but one thinks a few things:
* What do the environmentals think of it? Considering current and planned constraints at Cairngorm.
* I would have said that most terrain is accessible easily (or relatively) by touring or tele skis.
* AFAIK/IIRC the major cost of heliskiing is the heli. I assume they're planning to use otherwise downtime. But will they seriously find clients?
* How often are conditions consistently as good as, say, Canada? These things typically need to be quite fore-planned. My recollection, even in the "good old days", is that to exploit skiing in Scotland really well, you need to be pretty flexible.
Just seems like a somewhat unlikely idea...sorry...
And I note that the promo piccy shows two daring young Scottish snow bunnies goat hopping down a sheer cliff face into fields of endless powder.
Well, maybe not, but you can see some rocks, and heather and a light partial covering of snow! Hmmm, just what I'd pay $50 per vertical foot for.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
What do the environmentals think of it? Considering current and planned constraints at Cairngorm.
Considering Glencoe is on the opposite side of the country to Cairngorm!!!
You obviously have got something against skiing and boarding in the uk. Your cynical comments are unhelpful and downright disrespectful to all those people connected with snowsports tourism in Scotland. All new ideas and promotions that enhance the provision in Scotland should be applauded and not slated by those who should know better. (or maybe you've never been there Mr Murdoch!)
Heli skiing in Scotland a great idea for those who can pay for it. Not everyone wants to or is capable of slogging up the mountains. Let them enjoy the fantastic high mountains inaccessible by most of the skiing public.
Paul
After all it is free
After all it is free
pfairbrother, i'm sure DM can speak for himself but your post does come across as a bit chippy. i'd say that DM highlights some very worthwhile concerns, some of which are specific to Scotland (ie question marks over consistently good conditions) and some of which aren't (ie environmental questions). The Scottish Highlands are one of the few true wilderness areas left in western Europe. Do we really want to increase helicopter traffic there?
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Not everyone wants to or is capable of slogging up the mountains. Let them enjoy the fantastic high mountains inaccessible by most of the skiing public.
if that argument holds, why don't we just build roads everywhere?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Arno, I can't see how an occasional helicopter could possibly spoil the wilderness. To use my argument in the support of building roads is also not quite in the spirit of what I was saying and you know it!!
Obviously the helicopters will not be able to fly every day of the snowsport season but as an occasional facility for steep backcountry skiing/boarding (probably only weekends and holidays) they may prove to be successful.
If my post appeared 'chippy' that's because I get fed up with the British playing down and sometimes slagging off our very own snowsports industry. All efforts to enhance the Scottish snowsports experience and attract more visitors should be supported and not sneered at.
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you can see some rocks, and heather and a light partial covering of snow! Hmmm, just what I'd pay $50 per vertical foot for.
is just the sort of comment I mean. The reason why the snowslopes aren't nice flat grassy slopes devoid of rocks and heather is because the ground is unspoilt and undisturbed by the operators unlike many of our European counterparts. If you look where you are going you could even try turning around those sorts of obstacles!!
I fail to see what the current constraints on Cairngorm have to do with this. The closed system only applies to the funicular and does not apply when there is skiing provided. If the Ciste and West Wall chairs are operating anyone could use them to gain access to the higher ground it is only because of the funicular and fears of hundreds of ill equipped tourists wandering the plateau that prompted the visitor management plan to be implemented. Again the presence of helicopters landing on the plateau during snow cover would not alarm SNH or the National Park.
Paul
brian
brian Guest
I would've thought starting up a heli operation in Scotland would be a total non-starter. What percentage of days could you actually land anywhere near a mountain summit ?
However, if I was running a heli-sightseeing thing in Glasgow or Edinburgh and I noticed I had a fair number of blank days in Feb and March and someone showed me a vid like this :
then I might ponder on filling a few of those days with skiers if I could ....
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
brian wrote:
I would've thought starting up a heli operation in Scotland would be a total non-starter. What percentage of days could you actually land anywhere near a mountain summit ?
However, if I was running a heli-sightseeing thing in Glasgow or Edinburgh and I noticed I had a fair number of blank days in Feb and March and someone showed me a vid like this :
then I might ponder on filling a few of those days with skiers if I could ....
I agree brian - I thought it wouldn't be viable until I saw that clip and then thought, why not? It's not going to be an operation that runs too often during the winter but on clear days with good snow there could well be a (small) market for it.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I do think that you can say that heli-skiing in Scotland is not a great idea without being down on Scotland as a ski destination in general.
If one is happy with the environmental impact, I could see it working as a sideline for helis that are used for other purposes. Must admit I don't know too much about heli use in Scotland but presumably some are used for things like forestry, rescue work, shuttling oil workers to rigs. An enterprising owner of one of those could supplement his income by doing heli drops. I don't think anyone is going to get rich just out of heli-skiing!
Have to say, though, that people who are capable of steep backcountry skiing are usually capable of getting themselves up a hill under their own power. Some actually like that aspect and feel it adds to the achievement and the wild atmosphere of the mountain they are on.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Really good video, though. I must try Scottish touring again - perhaps my previous experience ( over on the East side) could be improved on. But sadly I'm not sure if I can fit it in this coming season - unless it is in late April. (What has late April been like of recent years?)
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Some of the best touring on the Cairngorm plateau was in April and May this year. There was complete cover form Cairngorm across to Ben Macdhui on May 10th this year!!
Paul
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Big dumps in March and superb skiing through April with snow cover into May (I skiied on the last couple of days of the season up there in mid/late May by which time it was melting rapidly). By all accounts the back corries held up better than the pistes with snow lasting longer there and in other off piste areas.
Take a look at the photos on Winterhighland to get an idea of 2005/2206 and previous seasons.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
(Arno, thank you for leaping to my defense!)
pfairbrother, Paul. You are lucky I am so easy going. I have nothing against UK snowsports, nor was I being "cynical". Disrespectful? What have you been smoking?
I was reared in Glasgow on a healthy diet of mutton pies and local skiing. A six hour drive to Aviemore for the annual Easter holiday? Why not?
I don't want to get into a fight. If I thought heliskiing could contribute positively to making Scottish Snowsports at all more successful, it would be marvellous and have my full admiration. I love helis, best chairlift one can get.
But from where I sit, Heli skiing is just not a good idea. Let me amplify (please).
Heli skiing works generally very well in Canada, for instance, because there's a relatively stable climate in winter, loads of terrain of the right sort of gradient, lots and lots of snow. Lots and lots and lots of snow. And not a few very well maintained helicopters that would otherwise be idle. So you can reasonably package up a nice stay in a luxurious lodge with the use of otherwise redundant helos and pilots and reasonably expect that in a given week you might have one "down" day but most people will get the vertical that they want. And mostly in lovely deep fluffy powder.
It works very well and safely now because of a lot of infrastructure developed over the years which means lots of weather and avalanche data, backup helos, fuel caches, radio networks, etc.
Given that it's near impossible in Scotland to forecast from a Friday night whether one should bother heading up the hill on the Saturday, the general variability of weather alone means and I just can't see how you could make it work at all - let alone economically. Recall that Glencoe "Mountain Resort" (???, sorry, the Kingshouse hotel is not in any shape or form a "resort") nearly ceased to exist a few seasons ago because it was too hard to make a few chairlifts work economically.
Moving on, no, the occasional helicopter is unlikely to spoil any wilderness. It's also unlikely to pay for its pilot, fuel and mechanic. And if you're not capable of slogging up you sure as heck ain't capable of skiing down (powder requires a certain gradient, and a certain expenditure of energy. Even on fatboy skis). Might feck off the somewhat precarious population of ptarmigans though (if you were on Cairngorm).
And IIRC the constraint on Cairngorm isn't to prevent poorly equipped tourists wandering off and falling from Ben Macdui. Mrs McMuggins and clan, all sporting their best cimmets, pelmets and white stilettos can ride up and down the funicular to their hearts content. Just try and get on it with full sub-arctic touring gear, goretexed to the eyeballs and carrying skis and see how far you get.
Brian, good point. Given wind and visibility constraints? I would have thought not very many...
Oh yes, I mentioned dangerous. Leaving aside the ski safety side (as I am sure Scotland can supply many experienced and able guides) - if you take Canada the pilots are used to flying in atrocious, high mountain, winter weather. Many of them train in Antartica. I imagine that many commercial pilots in Scotland are ex-forces which is probably a good thing - but wouldn't most of them be employed by Bristow? and I don't believe that the North Sea ceases operations for the winter. So where are you going to find pilots capable of safely operating the things?
P.S. Yes, I have been heliskiing and it's something everyone should do. But I also spent 6 days out of 7 "down" sitting in a lodge with nothing to do, 6 hours drive from anything and paying $800 a day for the privilege.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
David Murdoch wrote:
P.S. Yes, I have been heliskiing and it's something everyone should do. But I also spent 6 days out of 7 "down" sitting in a lodge with nothing to do, 6 hours drive from anything and paying $800 a day for the privilege.
Ouch!
I had only one down day, but everything above the tree-line was wind crust. However it was almost impossible to persuade them to land near the trees since it wouldn't have been less economic for them, in terms of take-offs and landings per vertical ft. and we would have skied out the trees for the next weeks party if no more snow fell.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
snowball, yes, Ouch! Stuff of many a tale but deadly boring nonetheless. However, the previous year we had set the lodge record for vertical in a standard 10 guest heli with two groups, so that had been fantastic.
Something which I think could be a goer when there is sufficient snow and I'd quite like to see is small scale Cat Skiing in the vicinity of the resorts, using Kassboherers to take in some 'beyond the lifts' terrain - at it's most basic a Piste Basher shuttle from the Ptarmigan up Marquis Well to near the Summit. An idea that would allow the ski areas to offer something extra, make a bit of additional cash and can be done in a sensitive way.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
