 Poster: A snowHead
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After posting elsewhere in the forum, it's looking like I'm going to Tignes in mid-April as a very enthusiastic beginner with around a week of experience.
I'm still undecided between taking group or private lessons, but I have some questions:
1) If I go with group lessons, I found some older threads suggesting a good list of names (Ultimate, Evo 2, New Gen, TDC, Progression), are those still good names or can these things change a lot from year to year?
2) If I go with private lessons, how would people normally structure a week there? Taking 1-2h every day, then using the rest of the day to practice? Longer private sessions every day? Not having sessions every day?
3) Again for private, would people go for one of the ski schools or try to choose an individual instructor? If the latter, any specific recommendations? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I would go for group lessons... all week, much more fun, and you'll have some freinds to ski with when the lesson is over. Any of the above in terms of ski school...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As a Beginner, I would also suggest you take Group lessons.
If you are on a strict budget, Evo 2 gives good vfm for decent instruction. If you have more to spend, I would go with New Gen, TDC or Progression.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I agree with @Old Fartbag, Evo 2 sounds a good idea. Group lessons all week.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ah, what's the rationale for group lessons being strictly better? I realize I might be completely wrong here, but going by the levels described on most websites, assuming each level takes a week, progression would seem a tad-ish slow compared to what I've seen other skiers go through? I see the social point though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@badbadjokes, phone TDC Tignes and have a chat with Gavin. There might be enough beginners to form a small group so you would have the best of both worlds between group and private. They are very flexible about tailoring to your specific needs, the other companies less so.
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| badbadjokes wrote: |
| Ah, what's the rationale for group lessons being strictly better? I realize I might be completely wrong here, but going by the levels described on most websites, assuming each level takes a week, progression would seem a tad-ish slow compared to what I've seen other skiers go through? I see the social point though. |
IMV. There is a lot at play here when coming to the decision of which way to go.
For Classes to work, they need to be small (ideally 6 or less, but no more than 8 ) and a good Instructor with fluent English.
As a Beginner, classes should be more fun, will give you more hours of Instruction and can provide others of the same level to ski with.
Once the basics have been learned, there comes a point where Private Lessons, targeted at your specific needs, are more fruitful. When starting out, you are all at the same level.
Private Lessons should be a faster track to learning, but are more intense - Learning is influenced by many factors and having a laugh in a group can be a great way to go (unless you hate groups and are uncomfortable making a fool of yourself amongst others).
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 17-03-22 14:23; edited 1 time in total
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If your priority is to progress as fast as possible and you are you fine with the cost then private instructor is best.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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> When starting out, you are all at the same level
Should it really be that clear to me what level am I? Looking at both newgen and progression level descriptions I seem to fall squarely in-between levels 2 and 3. I'm afraid if I choose level 2 I'll finish the week without having progressed much from where I am (or maybe half as much as I could for a full week), but level 3 says "comfortable on blue runs" and the 34% gradient sections within the blues at a certain resort I've been to have certainly robbed me of the ability to confidently say I can do all blues...
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| Quote: |
assuming each level takes a week
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This is a mistaken assumption. Some skiers stick at the same level interminably, others progress much faster. If you could "do each level in a week" a British beginner skiing just one week a year could be a proper expert in 6 years or so.
The main advantage of group lessons is FAR more hours in the week, pound for pound, and FAR less time spent pottering around on your own embedding all your bad habits.
The advice to speak to Gavin at TDC would be worth following up. Quite expensive instruction but (if it's the Gavin I had a lesson with some years ) he'll put you right. Don't get hung up on "grades of piste". As you've discovered, some blue runs, some days, can be proper challenging and punish poor technique.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@badbadjokes, If you have one week on skis, you are a beginner - esp if it was 2 years ago.
They will assess you at the beginning and if you are demonstrably better will move you to another group..........but chances are you wont be.
As an aside, was on the free lift in Lac last week heading up to meet others to for apres in Brasero.
Got chatting to a young guy next to me, said it was his first day (ever) skiing, and he had already done "one black run" with his mates.
Asked if this sounded ok progress for first day  ..............we told him to book some morning lessons before he got in bother and just meet up with his pals in the pm/pub.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Alright, I'll be working point by point, but please understand I'm not trying to be annoying, just trying to understand!
> far more hours in the week [...] far less time [...] pottering around on your own
Is it really that big of a difference? I'm seeing schools offering private sessions at 1h30 per day (in between the group slots, I guess?) with groups being 2h per day, would those 30 minutes make that much of a difference?
The point about own time being "bad" is one I hadn't considered. So outside of lessons it would be better to just chill?
I'm not _terribly_ price sensitive, but of course no one wants to throw money away, so if a set of private lessons is a horrible choice then of course I won't go for it. I'm just trying to understand why the consensus seems so heavily towards group lessons when I would have expected a wider distribution of opinions and different pros/cons.
> If you have one week on skis [...]
I described myself as a beginner on the original post, c'mon, there's no need to put me down. 
I'm making (what I would consider) a serious effort to improve, going to sessions at the snow centre (before and after the mentioned resort visit), and all the experience wasn't years, but weeks ago. I just want to improve as much as I can before the season ends, as I have taken to enjoying things quite a bit. But it would be a disappointment to sign up for level 1 again in Tignes. At some point I have to make progress, right?
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@badbadjokes, depends a bit on who are you going with and skiing buddies.
So for example when I went the first time - 2 weeks in Tignes ironically enough - I was going with a mate who had done 3-4 trips before. So I did 2 weeks of lessons and skied with him other times.
But if say there was 2-4 of you of a similar level, you could ski together and just mix in a couple of private lessons to give you the feedback and point out stuff to work on.
The other thing to say is mid-April is relatively quiet so the group lesson group size could be quite small - which is to your advantage. Again my first 2 weeks were last season and iirc there ~4/5 in my group each week.
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You know it makes sense.
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I did a private and it is accelerated learning but as I see for me it is more about circumstances.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I might or might not be able to find company for this trip, it's a bit last minute...
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Poster: A snowHead
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| badbadjokes wrote: |
| But it would be a disappointment to sign up for level 1 again in Tignes. At some point I have to make progress, right? |
If you accurately describe what you can do - you shouldn't be put in the wrong group...and if the group you are put in proves to be incorrect for your ability, you can be moved....though all this depends on who are taking lessons that week. Some ski schools will watch the entire group of roughly equivalent ability ski and then divide them into appropriate groups.
Being in a group below your ability is frustrating and you won't improve much. Being in a group that is too advanced, is also frustrating, as you will be the one holding them up and find your confidence removed.
Most ski schools have a class for people who have done one week - and you are unlikely to find that beyond you.....but speak to the various ski schools and choose the one that fits your need the most.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@badbadjokes, if you can afford a private lesson every day, and ask your instructor for drills you can practice in your own time, that would be optimal. But of course, far more expensive. And what people more often do in their own time is go and try new runs, and "get down" something with all sorts of bad habits.
Depends how disciplined you are. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| badbadjokes wrote: |
| I might or might not be able to find company for this trip, it's a bit last minute... |
I would assume not and book group lessons for sure.
As Old Fartbag says if you feel the group is too weak or not progressing quickly enough speak to the ski school and if you are correct you should be moved.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Bear in mind that mastery of some of the basic skills can mean focussed drills, and lots of practice. Side slipping, for example, and then building up to a "falling leaf" style swing forward and back as you go down the slope, shifting your weight in quite subtle ways. Absolutely terrific, get you out of jail, skill - but mastering it, unless you are particularly gifted, takes time when you feel you should be off whizzing round the mountain. The one-footed drills too, which are only possible to practice on a gentle slope where you feel totally comfortable. And drills which I always found knackering, jumping skis off the ground, then alternating jumping tips and tails. As a young man you'll find those a lot easier than I did! And you can have fun too - skiing backwards is a good one.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
@badbadjokes, if you can afford a private lesson every day, and ask your instructor for drills you can practice in your own time, that would be optimal. But of course, far more expensive. And what people more often do in their own time is go and try new runs, and "get down" something with all sorts of bad habits.
Depends how disciplined you are. |
This. The problem with private lessons for a relative beginner is that typically 2-3 private lessons cost the same as a whole week of group lessons. If you are disciplined enough to work specifically on exercises given to you during a lesson, for 2-3 days afterwards, and on basically the same slopes (to avoid ending up in situations that are beyond your ability) then privates would work. Most people aren't, and they end up exploring, trying "just one red", survive and embed bad habits that then have to be unlearned before you can make more progress.
Once you are at a level where you can ski most pistes, and have the skills to get you out of trouble when you bite off more than you can chew (yes, sideslip, I'm looking at you) then fewer focused private lessons is the way to go.
One thought - if you haven't booked accommodation etc yet, and are not fussed about top notch rooms etc, have you considered UCPA? I think you would have the option of whole day lessons there. You can really improve rapidly with that much instructor time, even in a group.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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My plan if going the private route was originally to do one session every day. I figure it might cost double, but it's not like the rest of the trip is cheap either... Plus the most expensive resource is always holiday time, isn't it.
And yeah, plan was very much to agree with the instructor (or ask for suggestions if a group lesson) for stuff to do during free time. I'm exactly the kind of person who thrives on focused practice, give me something specific to do again and again and I'll arrive the next day nailing it. (I won't be able to do any variation of it though unless you ask me to practice it...)
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UCPA is a great suggestion. Sociable, too.
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@badbadjokes, you wouldn't need privates daily. It takes more than one day to put into practice what they tell you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
you wouldn't need privates daily
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But if money no object, why not? If you're otherwise on your own, it would be nice to have the company.
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| badbadjokes wrote: |
| I'm exactly the kind of person who thrives on focused practice |
In that case, if you can afford it, go private. 2 or 3 morning sessions, work on what you learned each afternoon. Sorted.
Oh, and avoid UCLA at all costs unless you like the "follow me" school of instruction with a bunch of French adolescents competing for who can over-exaggerate their ability the most.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
you wouldn't need privates daily
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But if money no object, why not? If you're otherwise on your own, it would be nice to have the company. |
Better off paying a mate to come with you I would have thought. Probably won't have much in common with a ski instructor other than a love of skiing.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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 I'm not suggesting becoming bosom pals, or going out boozing, but skiing all day on your own can be a bit dismal.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm not suggesting becoming bosom pals, or going out boozing, but skiing all day on your own can be a bit dismal. |
That would be my view.
Lesson - Practice - Lesson - Drills - Lesson- More practice....is more Bootcamp that holiday.
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You know it makes sense.
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I'm trying to look up the TDC school that got mentioned here a few times, but going from the website it looks like all their offerings are geared towards much more advanced skiers (e.g. people going to reds and stuff?).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Phone them
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Poster: A snowHead
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@badbadjokes, definitely not. As @pam w says, phone them and I'll be amazed if they can't help you (unless they're booked out, they're very popular for a reason)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| badbadjokes wrote: |
| I'm trying to look up the TDC school that got mentioned here a few times, but going from the website it looks like all their offerings are geared towards much more advanced skiers (e.g. people going to reds and stuff?). |
According to their website they have:
Confidence Clinic: "If you feel confident on green runs, but not so on blues, then this is the clinic for you. Improve and consolidate on the basics of ski technique, learn to make easy flowing turns in control."
Discovery Clinic: "If you feel strong and confident on Blue runs, but not so on reds, then this is the clinic for you. Discover more of the mountain, make skiing easy, learn how to ski the more challenging Tignes terrain, increase your speed whilst maintaining control, start to learn to carve."
https://www.tdcski.com/tignes/group_lessons_tignes/group_lessons_index.php
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Right, I didn't realize the menu header was clickable.
From the booking system they don't seem to have availability for the dates/levels anymore. Oh well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@badbadjokes, always worth a call - they may squeeze you in. It's good that they are popular.
Steve Angus (one of their instructors) blog posts on here so you could post on that thread or PM too.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@badbadjokes, Val has more coaches than Tignes and they share according to demand (it's run by brothers, one on either side of the hill).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Layne wrote: |
@badbadjokes, always worth a call - they may squeeze you in. It's good that they are popular.
Steve Angus (one of their instructors) blog posts on here so you could post on that thread or PM too. |
Thanks.
Yes badbadjokes - to try and address a couple of points and also general points to make. Best thing is to contact TDC Tignes (there are more of us in Val but we do inter swop about between resorts ALTHOUGH I would say (speaking for Val that we are about 90% fully booked (close to 100% fully booked for ALL mornings between now and the end of the season - just things like Friday am's etc left now at this late stage for the next 4 -5 weeks) on the whole) we are pretty booked up!) and ask them what they could fit you in for - if anything!
A couple of key points if I may...
1) colour of run / technique / skill are all mutually exclusive to each other and shouldn't be muddled up but in the industry usually are (not many ways for people to describe where there ski as a 'starting' point to get their 'level' across)
2) The learning curve in skiing gets steeper and steeper. As an example (taken from the ski racing world).... getting within 50% of say Michael Shiffrins time might take 1 week of practive. Within 25% of her time 1 year of practice, within 10% of her time 10 years of practice and within 1% of her time then you had been better sure you are skiing day in day out all the time. So improving and 'getting to the next level' you have to double your input.
3) Time skiing about often ingrains bad habits UNLESS you have a focus and are disciplined with your time and the INPUTS you put into it. For example at school the teachers teach your kids what to do but in their homework time it is ingrained so in the next lesson they can build on that and so on. Unless time is invested in making good the muscle memory you will often undo the 'good' stuff of learning!
So to summarise badbadjokes - personally you need to mix lesson time (1 hour won't even scratch the surface!) and practice time etc. Each instructor has their own 'style' and methods for teaching and not every style will suit every person but there is certainly an element of experience leads to better instructing id say! For me (along with most British instructors) we have CHOSEN to jump over many hurdles and for most of us it has been a long slog to get to where we are at - simply speaking we have chosen to make this our career and longevity in the profession is likely an indicator of abilities to do the job at hand. And if I may independent and 'small scale' schools more often are made up of passionate individuals who are secure in our teaching abilities and that is reflected in how quickly the slots get booked up (whether new clients or repeat business, referrals or long standing regulars). That is NOT to say anything about ANY other types of set ups but put it this way I would happily allow colleagues to look after clients I have had for 15 years or more as my confidence in their abilities is complete.
The best of luck and hopefully you can get what what you need. Enjoy the sliding!
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I would suggest you also check out Ultimate Snow Sports.
https://ultimatesnowsports.com/
If they're not showing availability on the website send an email query to info@........
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Thanks for the extended reply!
Just to make things very clear about how I look at things. I don't dare say skiing is easy, or that it comes easy to me. In fact going by my own life experiences I tend to be below average in sports and athleticism. I also don't in any way think I'm entitled to skiing to a certain level at the end of the week.
But the big question I want to answer in Tignes is this: if I set myself the main goal of improving as much as I can, with good guidance, and pushing myself just the optimal amount, how far can I reach in one week? And how can I get there? It's a matter of personal challenge.
Maybe the answer is "not very far". I secretly hope the answer is "solid technique parallel down a red". I'll be honestly happy with anything in between. It's the high of improving as much as I can that I'm going for here, of doing things I seriously didn't think I could do before.
There are other ski trips I'm planning with friends that'll be more social. This one is more about challenging myself.
This is why I was leaning more towards private sessions, and frequent ones at that.
Does this make sense? Or is this too insane?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@badbadjokes, Maybe also have a think about how you learn best. Do you learn by watching others, by having a complete theory of something, by trying things out?
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| rjs wrote: |
| @badbadjokes, Maybe also have a think about how you learn best. Do you learn by watching others, by having a complete theory of something, by trying things out? |
Definitely not by trying things out, that usually ends in disaster . I feel like mimicking and theory are both important? When I was learning snowplough turns I actually did some internet research to work out the physics of it (it's less intuitive than I thought it'd be! plus most websites just mention plough in passing), that was actually useful for "getting" it a bit better, though there's a gigantic difference between understanding the physics behind something and understanding how to move your body to make things happen...
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