Can you get an idea of how good someone is without seeing them ski?

A snowHead

I think I can make a reasonable guess - based on posture, familiarity and ease of handling equipment, etc. Many subtle cues...

What do you reckon?

A snowHead

Probably not

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

David Murdoch,

A reasonable guess. but it wouldn't matter if I got it wrong.

It's funny that a lot of very experienced skiers use stems... a lot more than you would think they would, not that there is anything wrong with a stem..gets you out of a lot of pickles, IMV...but I've seen some initiate almost all their turns with a little stem..??

Grammar...!!!!

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I'd reckon you can get in a reasonable guess too - mainly between absolute beginners, one weekers and the more accomplished taking into account the way they carry their skis, what they are wearing, (hire) skis and even nationality. I wouldn't want to make a decision whether to take someone down a red or a black etc purely on this basis though. French neon one pieces and retro skis confuse matters though.

Curiously for snowboarders I'd say that an absolute beginner and a time served veteran are much harder to tell apart - mainly due to the ease of walking in soft boots etc and the fact that quite a lot of people will lay out cash on their own gear early in the learning process.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

fatbob, I'd have a slightly different set of categories but broadly that. I certainly wouldn't pick an itinerary based on it though. That said, I reckon when I was repping (not SCGB) that I could generally pick out the guests who were going to be hassle (of any kind - skiing or otherwise!) on the bus up from the airport...

Never tried for snowboarders as clearly a snowboard gives one all the information one needs wink

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I added a poll for you, in a slightly authoritarian fashion...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Hoppo, I think you need to add a "don't care" button.

After all it is free

Hoppo, Thanks!

Ray Zorro, if you don't care, you don't need to read the thread. So clearly you did care, maybe just a little bit, once, you fickle, heartless brute.

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David Murdoch Laughing

, I'm just in a bad mood as I'm still at work Sad

. Ignore me wink

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pam w, you need to ask??

Compare and contrast:

http://www.fluorescentrompersuits.co.uk/romper15.jpg

with

http://www.hotfreelayouts.com/pics/894/glenplake.jpg

You know it makes sense.

voted no on this as ones ability to ski has nothing to do with how "good" you are i now some really nice people who goto church every sunday but have never even tried to ski Puzzled

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Voted 'Yes' because I can get a very precise idea that may or not be accurate.

DM that first pic shows a prejudicial posture with elbow behind torso. I am not certain you have an unbiased fashion eye.

A snowHead

Oh, yes. No doubt at all. And correct far more often than not. Wink

A snowHead

Sorry, I'm not remotely convinced. I ski in a small unfashionable French resort where people wear ancient suits and can ski just fine. I recall last year sharing a chairlift with a guy who works each winter in the local police so he could ski a lot. You should have seen his suit! And his funny old rear entry boots. Would have had Snowheads falling around laughing and putting his picture up for ridicule in the media zone. If you got your camera out quick enough before he launched himself off the nearest cliff. Reminded me of a day I spent on a yacht, gale bound in a Scottish loch, with lots of other yachties, all faffing around with our warps in our Henry Lloyd goretex stuff and yellow wellies, feeling rather heroic. Till the local lobster boat (a little tatty one, not like our sleek chartered machines with winches costing hundreds of pounds apiece) came rolling in from the open sea with a big stack of lobsters and a couple of fishermen in soggy trainers, denim jeans and what looked like wornout Marks and Spencer's rain coats tied round the middle with string. They soon got our yachts tied up right and we all went off for a wee dram.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

pam w, I wouldn't judge by clothing. At least not that way.

One can tell a lot by the way someone walks in ski boots, carries their skis and poles, find their way around the resort, stands on their skis, gets into their skis, and so on.

Clothing and gear? Yes, but not by its newness. More by its cachet. For lack of a better term.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

pam w, you're rejecting a specific criterion when the original questin was meant to include more holistic evaluations, Gestalts of inkblots if you will, unless the observer is specifically trained to key on relevant minutiae.

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fatbob, expensive gear with the sheen worn off, yes, that's a clue.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

If someone is wrestling with a pair of skis like they are trying to carry a greased python I'd say there's a fair chance that they don't have too much skiing experience.

A BASI Trainer friend of mine once told the story of a BASI III assessment where a group of eager-eyed trainee instructors where told that how they carry skis was an important part of their assessment. They duly lined up to demonstrate the best "ski carry" technique they could muster, with a couple of them suffering from performance anxiety and dropping a pole or two. Once all of them had demonstrated their best technique my friend reminded them of the date: 1st April Smile

After all it is free

i could say yes - by watching them ride a T-bar Twisted Evil

oh and I'll add to that ... especially when the wind is blowing about 100kph into your face giving you a nice face peel from the sleet...and the track has rocks/debris on the side or a bit of a drop.. and is a bit rutted up....

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I'm lovin' this. I didn't realise I was going to set off quite such a fun thread. more! More! MORE!

(Sorry, just been rereading my E E (Doc) Smith Lensman books...) awful, Awful, AWFUL romper suits.

comprex, it is, I think, a bit more of an instinctive, holistic reaction - or snap judgement if you like. A good giveaway of someone who's probably never had a good lesson is carrying skis on shoulder the wrong way up.

It's not snobbery, it's not "holding-knife-like-pen", there's a Right way and a Wrong way.

Snowblades are also not a good sign (ducks behind sofa).

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David Murdoch, I find it starkly inconceivable that a man of your obvious gifts could read such tripe. Watch my jets Laughing

You know it makes sense.

Depends on how many subtle clues. You can tell near-beginners from how they carry skis, walk in ski-boots, what skis they're carrying, and you can tell more experienced skiers from how they get in and out of their skis but I do think people are too quick to judge on appearance and/or dress alone. I know I am and it seems it's always the moguls prove me wrong and teach me humility.

I think it was on about my third skiing holiday that I one day noticed a young Japanese couple wearing garish completely naff matching his and hers one pieces in the queue for the chairlift behind us. I remember thinking to myself that at least they must be worse than me. At the top we sagely turned right for the blue having seen the steep and scary heavily mogulled slope going left. We did the run and enjoying it, went back up. Arriving near the top we saw the couple still almost at the top of the steep mogul run, obviously in no hurry to descend. I kind of felt sorry for them presuming that they had gone left not knowing how difficult the run would be and were having difficulty getting down. I was wrong. As we got nearer I realised that they were taking pictures of each other. I then saw each put their camera away, don gloves and in a flash, they were gone - straight down the fall-line in perfect and effortless control. I suspect they'd already been down it and back up again in the time I'd taken to do the blue. Twice.

And again, 2 years ago, 4 OAPs, 2 wrinkly grey haired men and 2 wrinkly grey haired women, wearing eighties one-pieces and ancient boots and skis. I was on a steep mogulled pitch in the between-piste (rather than properly off piste) so I guess I wasn't completely fooled by their indecent lack of being comprehensively kitted out in all the latest fancy gear wink

. Anyway, I was making heavy work of it and stopping or falling every few turns and they'd caught up with me. I noticed that at 1630 on a hot March afternoon they all had that calm air about them of having just finished a leisurely stroll. Each one in turn swept swiftly and elegantly past me with consummate ease, disappearing over a ridge into even steeper terrain, while I having peered over the ridge, slunk back towards the piste. I don't think that had I seen them walking around at resort level, I would have been savvy enough to know just how good they were, even recognising that they must have been skiing a long time.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Hey - someone else has voted with me! Love you I do, hmm yes. snowHead

A snowHead

Yoda, Clear ether my friend!

A snowHead

slikedges, yep, here's me starting a thread like this and then coming out with, "You can never judge by appearances".

Or should never.

But I think you can make allowances for appearances?

Or non-appearances.

Mahybe what I am trying to suggest is that you can often get an idea of what to expect but you shouldn't allow that prejudice to get in the way of what you experience?

Maybe it's time I retired for the evening. Night night all.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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David Murdoch,
http://www.interdisciplines.org/mirror

relevant?

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

comprex, oooohhh! Good point!!!! Maybe!!!!

I like the whole motor neuron idea (there was chat on here about it a few months ago IIRC) - it seems both intiutive and gives me a scientific platform from which to clain that there have been summers where I have got better simply by thinking about skiiing and watching lots of ski vids. Also that I am am 100% convinced I learned a great deal from simply observing ESF instructors over 3 seasons.

Are you suggesting that one might then extend that to feeling some sort of resonance when watching how people handle themselves in ski kit but not while skiing - familiarity, ease, grace and elegance being a few other things to "watch" for? As that seems to be a reaonable extension.

Also could underlie the "takes one to know one" type of conversation often heard in pulp fiction about honed killers, elite special forces, etc. Posture, dynamic balance, etc.

Not that anyone has ever walked up to me in a bar and offered me a couple of grand for any "wet work" you understand. Although it does rain quite often in Morzine, that's an entirely different "wet" work.

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DM,

Watching is a great tool IMV, how are you going to do it if you can't visualise yourself doing it? I accept that is a little bit harder than that, which is why we don't all have a great golf swing...... but I do think it is a good starter where you use your minds eye, as it where.

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Can you judge how well someone skis ? Only as much as you can judge anything else.....

However, when I used to teach full time I noticed that my fellow instructor's beginners classes used to go much better than mine. When I asked him why - he said he alwats made sure to get the peeps that were ready first ! That really is reliable way of judging ski ability !

After all it is free

It's quite fun when you judge someone and get it wrong. My favourite's always include:

[list]Well equipped people that turn out to be your typical 'all the gear, no idea'.
Horrible spotty faced, baggy panted jibbers that look like they should have a snowboard (or worse) and they turn out to be horribly good.
SCGB reps. For some reason I always give them the benefit of the doubt then I see them on the mountain and laugh so hard I normally fall over.
BASI instructors. Actually this is less of a pre-judgment, they just always shock me. Some of them ski quite well, but most of them should still be at ski school...

I guess that makes me quite judgmental then. Shocked

Not really, I think it's just what most people do when they're waiting around in lift queues... Twisted Evil

Without reading all the above in any depth, I personally can't get any more than a vague idea but experienced teachers can get a very good idea just by watching someone walking up to the slopes in ski boots, carrying skis.

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One way (which is a bit of a fudge I suppose) is if you see someone skate well on skis they're usually of a decent standard when skiing.

Help!!

Can you get an idea of how good someone is without seeing them ski?

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