 Poster: A snowHead
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No I'm not suggesting we bury people from Poland in the ground, nor do I refer to the practice of burying your pole at the end of each season to see if new ones will have sprouted in time for next year.
No I refer to the placement of the pole at the point of turn initiation. I was always taught that a pole-plant was obligatory, independent of terrain or circumstances (a rather rigid rule?). Some of my chums who have learnt to ski more recently think I am mad and appear to view the pole-plant as a learning technique to be dispensed with as soon as they can hold an edge.
So, your opinions please my fellow  s (and yes I have searched on this but the list of results is ENORMOUS!):
Zammo is a cumudgeonly old git and should get a life. Be quiet about your pole-planting old man!
Zammo is absolutely correct, a pole plant forms part of every technically correct turn.
Zammo's teachers were even older gits than Zammo. There's a time and a place for this pole-planting mularkey.
I look forward to your, as ever, expert and amusing responses.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zammo wrote: |
| Zammo is absolutely correct, a pole plant forms part of every technically correct turn. |
I favour that one.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd drop the "every" - it's not essential, and sometimes not desirable.
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Pole planting is just one technique, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but it can help with both style and technique if you want it to
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In regular piste skiing I don't think I pole plant that often, certainly not with any power perhaps just a gentle kiss on the snow. Skiing bumps I think every turn gets a decent pole plant, as does skiing steep terrain or deep snow.
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I favour a peat and sand mix. Keep inside on a south facing window until there is no danger of frost.
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Chuck away your poles you don't really need them 
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brian
brian
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I was taught to pole plant at all times but that was 20+ years ago when men were men and skis were thin. Seems to be practically frowned on in large radius turns these days ...
zammo, perhaps a technique update is required, are you still going up and down with your feet together ? If so, check in for some lessons (insert obligatory easiski plug here). It does make a big difference having modern technique on modern equipment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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zammo, Plant them in early spring, after the last good frost!
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zammo, Pole plant required when you need to ! By this I mean that there are times when you'll not need a pole plant - longer turns on easier slopes for example.
Steeps, and bumps - yes the pole plant will help.
What's a pole plant for ? Two things - 1) Timing and 2) Support during the edge change. So if you have good rhythm and are well balanced on a particular run, there's no need to pole plant.
Ski teaching has come on a bit in the last few years - but (IMHO) not as much as has been hyped ! What's looked for now is what works functionallly, rather than a recipe that says that a turn isn't complete without a pole plant.
Interestingly (for me), I've been teaching some folk who have reached quite a high level of skiing ability without a pole plant, and getting them to change to use one (because, eventually it will help) is quite a challenge !
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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zammo, we used to plant the pole at the beginning of the turn to help time the turn and to give us support for the up-unweighting movement. No that we don't do the up-unweighting any more we no longer need the support from it. Also, the original way was to flex and plant, this represents an interuption in our flow down the hill and is thus undesirable.
Therefore, the plant has now moved to help stabilise the upper body during the middle part of the turn, and is indeed a kiss or tap rather than a positive plant. We used to teach pole plant quite early, now I wait until peeps can do nicely carved turns before I even mention it.......
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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easiski, interesting. I should qulaify my post a bit: I no longer always pole plant, but almost always 'kiss' the snow a little, mostly to maintain rhythm. On steeps etc. I'd be lost without it.
Interesting that you now teach it later, rather than early on.
brian, some ski technique correction required fpr sure, although I no longer ski with my feet tied together! That said, having them shoulder-width apart still feels a bit odd, although more natural on up-to-date kit, certainly
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brian
brian
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zammo, feels odd ? tell me about it 
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You know it makes sense.
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So.......
Assuming a wider stance is desireable these days for carving turns should we be looking at reducing pole length?
What are opinions about the ideal length of pole and how should we now be measuring them against out bodies when at the ski pole shop?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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zammo, IMHO, a pole plant is part of a turn, increasingly important in increasingly technical manoeuvres.
Ie. important in steeps, essential in bumps, necessary in slalom gates.
Less important in easy stuff - or perversely in GS, DH.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
What are opinions about the ideal length of pole and how should we now be measuring them against out bodies when at the ski pole shop?
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The same measurement as ever....... providing your skis don't have much of a riser plate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, don;t talk to me about bumps ..... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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zammo, I would not advocate shoulder width unless you want to do slalom. Hip width apart is where your feet naturally dangle when someone picks you up under the armpits - that's as wide as you need for normal skiing.
ski, I still go right angles at the elbow with the hand under the basket indoors.
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Pole planting seems to me to be far more useful when doing tight linked turns as it helps with the rythm, it's totaly unnecessary when doing wide carved turns, indeed if you really carve turns well then your body is over at such an angle that the use of poles might be considered almost hazardous.
If anyone wants to try and emulate the skiers of yesteryear with their tightly pressed together legs giving a near single track then proper use of poleplanting is essential, given that this is a completely different style to current instruction techniques however I suggest you find a good teacher to show you how 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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easiski,
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I still go right angles at the elbow with the hand under the basket indoors.
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Me too - but I notice that the sticks I've been using for years feel just a bit short on skis with a riser plate, compared to those without...
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Warren Smith says pole plant is vital, indeed STRONG pole plant is vital.
Good enough for me!
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| rungsp wrote: |
Warren Smith says pole plant is vital, indeed STRONG pole plant is vital.
Good enough for me! |
Does he say a strong pole plant is necessary in all circumstances?
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[quote="easiski"] Hip width apart is where your feet naturally dangle when someone picks you up under the armpits - that's as wide as you need for normal skiing.
Is that something you regularly do to your students as part of your lessons? If so, I'm in. Sounds like fun... 
Incidentally, the instructor in La Plagne who spent most of a two hour private lesson hammering into me the need for a light pole plant to focus my rhythm, probably did more good for my skiing than any instructor in the last few years. Got me over a plateau - the pole plant gave me something to focus on, and meant that I started to relax a bit more, got me transferring my weight more fluidly etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Option 3. Gets in the way for sweeping, carved, long-radius turns. Good for short radius / steeps / bumps though.
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Most people get this completely wrong. THey gently place the pointy end in snow. To do the job properly, bury the flexible root end in good compost to a depth of just below the flower (often called the 'basket') 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Proper size baskets (7-10cm diameter - not the weeny fashionable ones) are a pretty good idea for improving your performance in the soft stuff,
From recently learning to tele I found/still find that using poles at all is an impediment to proper technique at an early stage.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| laundryman wrote: |
| Option 3. Gets in the way for sweeping, carved, long-radius turns.. |
I kept insisting this.... my instructor kept in insisting I needed to work on learning to use them as they would aid my timing.... when I remember to keep the pole tips moving ALL the time THEY DO.... so I have stopped insisting it is too hard and returned to attempting to use the damn things!
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zammo, skiing bumps well (properly) is the quintessence of daily skiing (IMHO). Powder however, when it comes...
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar.org.uk wrote: |
| rungsp wrote: |
Warren Smith says pole plant is vital, indeed STRONG pole plant is vital.
Good enough for me! |
Does he say a strong pole plant is necessary in all circumstances? |
Having skied with Warren I can say that he wouldn't say in 'all circumstances'. As pointed out ^ there are circumstances when it is vital and others when it is now considered to be an older style.
Carving has taken more of a GS & DH approach to poleplants, ie lose them, while steeps & moguls need strong pole plants.
However it really comes down to the shape of your turns. Some shapes require pole plants and others don't. It's hard to make any hard and fast rules about pole plants as you can make any shape turn in any situation...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I would not advocate shoulder width unless you want to do slalom. Hip width apart is where your feet naturally dangle when someone picks you up under the armpits - that's as wide as you need for normal skiing.
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i would go with that,
as a stance width, anatomically the outside edge of the soles of your boots should be at the same width as the measurement across the ASIS: anterior superior illiac spines (the pointy bits at the top of your pelvis)
this allows the femurs to 'hang' in the correct postion without any undue torque.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CEM, yup, that's kind of what I meant, and certainly how ones legs hang / support in what your physio would call 'neutral'
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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David Murdoch, I think if you're a purist re: technique then, yes, bumps is the terrain which a) requires the cleanest approach and b) demonstrates the skier's proficiency in certainly the core elements of skiing technique.
Personally, I'd rather ski powder, trees and steeps, but I guess we mostly all enjoy what we're better at rather than what we don't do so well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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zammo, hmmm, I will happily ski powder rather than bumps for as long as its available, but I can usually find bumps anywhere and powder is a treat.
I'd rather ski powder in the trees and with cliffs...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sage, very, very little cliffs and very, very deep powder. Like riding down in an elevator.
Of course, I have also been known to do a little "bark munching".
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David Murdoch, it's important to show the trees you love them by giving them a big hug. This is not so much to be recommended when it comes to pylons ...
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| parlor wrote: |
Carving has taken more of a GS & DH approach to poleplants, ie lose them, while steeps & moguls need strong pole plants.
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I find pole 'plants' actually help a lot in GS, they help you initiate the move from one turn to the next and get your body moving in the right direction. In fact one of the racing coaches had me doing double pole plants (both sides) to encourage really getting the body flowing in the right direction and to stop me dropping my inside hand - that made a huge difference to my perfomance
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| stuarth wrote: |
| In fact one of the racing coaches had me doing double pole plants |
Was he French 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A double pole plant is an excellent tactic in re-centreing, getting stacked, or as a recovery move.
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FAQ
