I've been going to Livigno, Italy for years now and looking for a place that is a bit similar. The town itself is 1800meters high which is ideal since we can stay right in town and have our 3 yr old little man just go out and ski right there on the bottom beginner slopes. Many other resorts you need to go to the gondola and take it to the base/bottom of the slopes.
What other towns in the Alps are similar to Livigno in this high altitude respect? We'll be traveling from Prague so we prefer not to drive much more than 8 or 9 hours each way.
Also, the prices of accommodations (booking.com and airbnb) has really gone UP in Livigno from past years. Any idea what's going on?? I see prices have gone up 20-30%. I wonder why.
Thx for this..guess i could've found that myself lol
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@carminehawk, I have a toddler as well and Livigno is great in that respect. It does seem quite rare in that it's a proper town with a large local population, a bit of character, and is above 1800m. Some of the purpose built high altitude ski stations I've visited have been a bit bleak and treeless, with ugly high rise blocks.
I've noticed the prices rocketing the past few years too. Aside from general price rises across the industry, I think it's a combination of Livigno consciously choosing to move away from its former reputation as a cheap party resort, and the effect of the 2026 Olympics.
Altitude not as necessary as you go East, and your based east anyway. What about one of the village in Ski Amade. Haus /Ennstal near Schladming for example
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@carminehawk, as @t44tomo, said. Stay East and altitude is less of a factor. Ski Amade is less than 6 hours from Prague and we have a lot of Czech visitors. Snow sure from Christmas through to Easter as a lot of the terrain is North facing. (>50% in Flachau and Schladming). Zauchensee (1300m) would be great with a 3 year old. Beginners slopes right outside the hotels. Come after 15 March and your 3 year old skis for free. The Zauchenseehof has kids clubs. https://www.zauchenseehof.com/
After all it is free
After all it is free
davidof wrote:
St Moritz
Davos
to save Pam the bother les Saisies
The topic opener is looking for a different resort because prices in Livigno went up.
And then you recommend St Moritz and Davos
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You are not going to find a much better price-quality relation that in Livigno.
Yes prices may have gone up, but the starting level from where they went up was much less expensive than in most resorts.
Especially for anything with taxes on it, like schnapps.
You can rule out Switzerland, and Tyrol too.
Hardly any ski-in-ski-out; ridiculously expensive (especially Graubunden) compared to Livigno.
Colfosco might be nice for ski-in-ski-out. Less driving time; but certainly not less expensive.
That last part goes for all the Dolomites.
Rohrmoos (over Schladming) might be interesting for you.
Many hours less to drive.
The B&B and apartments are ON the slopes.
Still reasonably prices, for Austria.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
Onnem wrote:
davidof wrote:
St Moritz
Davos
to save Pam the bother les Saisies
The topic opener is looking for a different resort because prices in Livigno went up.
And then you recommend St Moritz and Davos
The OP didn't say she was looking for another resort because of the rise in prices (if you read the question) just that she was looking for a town at a similar height to Livigno so my response entirely fitted with the question.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@carminehawk, costs in all ski resorts have gone up a lot in the past 3 years, Livigno will be no different. Most of the Austrian resorts have slopes in the village, not all though for example the Zillertal areas & Ischgl. Livigno has a dry & cold winter climate many other places will have more snow though not as cold (Livigno is known as "little Tibet"). I suspect your biggest issue is going to be cost, all the places we could suggest are likely to be more expensive. An ideal spot might be Serfaus which has a big focus on children but recent comments mention costs, SkiAmade as above is great with Zauchensee possibly best option for you, similarly Saalbach Hinterglemm has much of its accommodation fronting on to or very near to the snow. Lots of other places too, Südtirol / Dolomites for example
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Onnem wrote:
davidof wrote:
St Moritz
Davos
to save Pam the bother les Saisies
The topic opener is looking for a different resort because prices in Livigno went up.
And then you recommend St Moritz and Davos
yah, this was very helpful lol
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@munich_irish, wrote: “ similarly Saalbach Hinterglemm has much of its accommodation fronting on to or very near to the snow”
Indeed. My apartments overlook a nursery slope, and the gondola is directly opposite my front door (with skiing possible back to the doorstep). That’s at just over 1,000m. How high do you actually need to go in the eastern Alps?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Obertauren probably fits the bill too?
Depending on amount of skiing you're looking for Kühtai would also work.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@tatmanstours, How many times have you actually skied right to your door step? From the bottom of the nursery slope you'd require to ski down a small road and then ski across the main road to get to your front door step from the nearest piste!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Markscotski, I think you need to refresh your memory, or be given some guidance, Mark . We’re talking about a distance of about 30 yards.
I will only concede that it does help if there has been recent snowfall and the road (certainly not a “main road”) has not been cleared. Or not to care about your ski bases.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 18-11-24 18:58; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
tatmanstours wrote:
How high do you actually need to go in the eastern Alps?
This is a great question.
So let's call 1800 base level for French, Western Swiss resorts.
What is the equivalent altitude/snowsureness level in the more easterly Alps? Is it clearly lower?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
When you're beginner or somewhat advanced, I would recommend
1. Ski in ski out
2. Not too busy, avoid kamikaze skiers
3. Wiiiiiide gentle blue runs to bolster confidence
4. Good quality snow
5. When you're not a mile-basher, there's no use going to a very expensive large ski area
Serfaus. I think prices in Serfaus are at least 30-40% higher than in Livigno.
And not even talking about the price of alcoholic beverages or eating out.
Obertauern. Even more expensive.
My sister in law went there 2 seasons ago; commenting it must have been the most expensive resort she has ever been to.
And she has been to Belle Plagne in peak season...
Zauchensee. Super busy.
Here's 3 videos of resort I would recommend.
This is based on the actual request from the topic opener; not my own preferences.
@afterski, wrote: “ What is the equivalent altitude/snowsureness level in the more easterly Alps? Is it clearly lower?”
Well, it’s usually possible to ski back to the town at Zell am See, and that’s at 700m (300m lower than Saalbach). Although clearly much will depend on the time of the season and conditions.
And I wouldn’t regard 1800m as normal base level for western resorts generally - more like 1500/1600.
But I reckon you can typically deduct 500-600m from the altitude of a resort in the western Alps to find its equivalent in the eastern Alps. Not an exact science of course.
The topography helps with snow retention in many resorts that are relatively low. Orientation of ski slopes, and the degree of exposure and of shading from the sun are of course very relevant.
I can only speak with authority about Saalbach, where snow retention is greatly helped during much of the season by the steepness of the south side of the valley in which it lies. The village and lower slopes get plenty of shade from the massive bulk of the Schattberg (= “Shadow Mountain”), which towers over the village to the south.
But, to get back to your question, there are many successful ski resorts at altitudes of less than 1,000m in the eastern Alps, which are snowsure from December to at least late March. Kitzbühel is another example. I would tentatively suggest that typically you would be looking at at least 1400m in the western Alps to find a resort that could be regarded as snowsure for most of the season.
By “snowsure” I’m not going into snow quality, which is of course another matter, and will again depend on many factors, obviously.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Passo San Pellegrino (excellent value at Hotel San Marco, ski in with everything you would want with kids) and Passo Del Tonale are both high with lots of gentle slopes on the doorstep. Not as big or genuine a town as Livigno (more high passes with buildings on them). We stayed in Tonale last year and there were free magic carpets behind the apartment complex.
@afterski, As a resident of the Eastern Alps, Flachau village is at 880m. I have skied to the bottom of the valley on snow, on the first and last day of the season for every year I've been here. Some of that is down to the Germanic efficiency of preparation and preservation. But taking last season as the poorest in terms of temperature, we still skied to the valley even though the Snow Making machines didn't operate after February. Aspect is as important as altitude, the valley runs in Flachau face N to NE.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@tatmanstours, yes fair enough on 1800 - 1600 point. I was just using a high resort as an example. I guess another way to phrase the question could be:
If 1800m is considered a high resort in the western alps, what is the equivalent height in the east?
I see you've answered that as basically 1200-1300m if you deduct your numbers.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@afterski, speaking personally, I ski between 1,000-2,000m in Saalbach (Ski Circus) from mid-December to early April, and after that I drive half an hour to the Kitzsteinhorn glacier at Kaprun, where (using the same lift pass) I ski between 2,000-3,000m. And I’ve never felt “snow-deprived”.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I have been to all the resorts mentioned in this thread.
I keep being baffled by how some cannot stop pushing their favorite resorts, without taking into account that the TO is searching a place optimized for skiing with a 3-year-old.
Maybe your favorite is good for YOU, but most recommendations are far off for a 3-year old.
I can still remember like yesterday, what it was like (my son is now 15).
You do not want your kid run over by some egomaniac.
So most resorts in Austria fail.
They have solved the problem of waiting lines with massive capacity monsters. Puking thousands of skiers per hour onto the slopes.
Unfortunately, the slope capacity did not increase. And there is insufficient space to adapt them.
So you get extremely overcrowded pistes, with lots of collisions, or near-misses.
Not what I want. I like going mach-3 on semi-FIS GS skis. So I need space to do that in a responsible way.
And most certainly not what you want, with a 3-year old.
So I recommend a place
1. With low collision risk.
2. Guarantee of good quality snow.
3. Cabin lifts, over chair lifts, over T-bars.
4. In a bowl so nobody gets lost, and no busy crossings.
5. No use paying for an area with 200+ km of slopes. Not only lift ticket prices go up, but accommodation and all other stuff as well. Better spend that money on good tuition.
6. Avoid the advice of personal-eternal-favorite-pushers
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Onnem, wrote “ So most resorts in Austria fail.”
Your depiction of overcrowded pistes may apply to popular resorts (anywhere!) in high season peak weeks. But not (skiing with a three year old) at a relatively quiet time of the season.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
afterski wrote:
@tatmanstours, yes fair enough on 1800 - 1600 point. I was just using a high resort as an example. I guess another way to phrase the question could be:
If 1800m is considered a high resort in the western alps, what is the equivalent height in the east?
I see you've answered that as basically 1200-1300m if you deduct your numbers.
another example Kranska Gora in Slovenia, the majority of the are on a slope above the village with a base at 810m. It looked a bit patchy in last years warm spell, but it was open and operating when most slopes below 1800m in NW french alps were closed / mush. I wouldn't recommend to the OP as they would be driving past plenty more suitable Austrian resorts to get there.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
tatmanstours wrote:
@Onnem, wrote “ So most resorts in Austria fail.”
Your depiction of overcrowded pistes may apply to popular resorts (anywhere!) in high season peak weeks. But not (skiing with a three year old) at a relatively quiet time of the season.
That is right.
And that is also why I recommend to steer clear of the usual suspects.
There are more than sufficient options apart of that.
I used to be a big fan of "industrial" or "utilitarian" skiing. ValTho etcetera.
Even if bound to peak season, there's FAR better places.
France, some examples
-Valmeinier & Valloire
-Val Cenis
-Serre Chevalier (for a big one, reasonably quiet)
Italy
-Bardonecchia
-La Thuile
-Gressoney
-Livigno
-Santa Catarina near Bormio (but almost unreachable)
-Vierschach
Switzerland
-Lauchernalp
-Obersaxen & Mundaun (but lack of investment and lift closures)
Austria
-Rohrmoos
-Mauterndorf
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thanks everyone for your feedback!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Onnem wrote:
I have been to all the resorts mentioned in this thread.
I keep being baffled by how some cannot stop pushing their favorite resorts, without taking into account that the TO is searching a place optimized for skiing with a 3-year-old.
Maybe your favorite is good for YOU, but most recommendations are far off for a 3-year old.
I can still remember like yesterday, what it was like (my son is now 15).
You do not want your kid run over by some egomaniac.
So most resorts in Austria fail.
They have solved the problem of waiting lines with massive capacity monsters. Puking thousands of skiers per hour onto the slopes.
Unfortunately, the slope capacity did not increase. And there is insufficient space to adapt them.
So you get extremely overcrowded pistes, with lots of collisions, or near-misses.
Not what I want. I like going mach-3 on semi-FIS GS skis. So I need space to do that in a responsible way.
And most certainly not what you want, with a 3-year old.
So I recommend a place
1. With low collision risk.
2. Guarantee of good quality snow.
3. Cabin lifts, over chair lifts, over T-bars.
4. In a bowl so nobody gets lost, and no busy crossings.
5. No use paying for an area with 200+ km of slopes. Not only lift ticket prices go up, but accommodation and all other stuff as well. Better spend that money on good tuition.
6. Avoid the advice of personal-eternal-favorite-pushers
At three years old for a week realistically it is the nursery slopes that need to be detached from the others to avoid problems , somewhrer with a publicly accessible nursery play area is probably best with baby tow/ moving carpet. Getting onto blue rune probably is not part of the agenda.
I must say I don't know Austrian resorts as well as many others but when I went to Zauchensee a few years back in a busy week in Feb it was actually very quiet. I'm surprised you characterise it as super busy.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@T Bar, he/she lost me at “most resorts in Austria fail”
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
tatmanstours wrote:
@T Bar, he/she lost me at “most resorts in Austria fail”
Hurt your feelings?
Always stating "I think" and "I find" because this is my personal experience, both peak and off season. Dozens of ski weeks, covering most well-to-wheel and less known resorts between Schladming (Styria, Austria) and Risoul (French Alps).
I dislike overcrowded slopes with uncontrolled egomaniacs. I like Austria for walking. But for skiing, there is just too many resorts on too little space, compared to the other countries.
You can increase uplift capacity. That solves waiting time, but does not solve the problem of too little mountain surface available for slopes and off piste.
Hence crammed slopes, lots of collissions, and near misses.
Just compare Mayrhofen with Valloire, both in peak season. At least 4 times more square meters per skier.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Onnem, with utmost respect, your opinion does strike me as an absolute load of Kaiserschmarren, but perhaps you have some evidence (other than your own unsubstantiated one) that most of Austria’s 440 ski resorts are too dangerous to take a three-year old child for its first skiing holiday.
I haven’t been able to find any up to date statistics, but the below report from Columbus Direct has French resorts in ALL of the top ten places for skiing accidents that resulted in fractures. Perhaps you may be able to cite better evidence to convince me, and the Snowheads community of concerned parents?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Onnem wrote:
So I recommend a place
1. With low collision risk.
A 3yo will not be in school so you can go in the quietest weeks. That will automatically reduce your collision risk where ever you go. That said a 3yo isn't going to be venturing all over the resort anyway and still needs plenty of parental/guardian protection. They are not always easy to see, prone to sudden movements/falls!
Onnem wrote:
2. Guarantee of good quality snow.
A 3yo doesn't need good quality snow. Any decent bit of white ribbon would be fine. When 4yo my son loved slushy bumps.
Onnem wrote:
3. Cabin lifts, over chair lifts, over T-bars.
Best thing for a beginner 3yo is a moving carpet. Chairs, depends a lot on their age. Modern chairs are safer, easier to get on and off and more comfortable.
Onnem wrote:
4. In a bowl so nobody gets lost, and no busy crossings.
As above #1 they ain't going that far. #2 someone will be with them all the time.
Onnem wrote:
5. No use paying for an area with 200+ km of slopes. Not only lift ticket prices go up, but accommodation and all other stuff as well. Better spend that money on good tuition.
Personally I think the whole premise of looking for a high altitude resort is flawed. And/or the concern about getting a lift up to a beginner area. A lot depends on when and where you are going.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
This discussion reflects the fact that although the OP wants ideas about a good place to take a 3 year old for their first skiing holiday it was couched in terms which led to an irrelevant discussion about altitude and some very silly generalisations about Austrian resorts being death traps for small kids.
Maybe start again?
Is this a "just 3" year old or a "nearly 4" year old? Do the parents propose to use a ski instructor, whether in a group or private lesson, or teach him themselves? Do they just want him to have a little potter about, slide down a gentle slope "hands on knees", or start serious tuition? Are they strong skiers themselves and willing to spend time with him?
Generally, 3 year olds are not going to "just go out and ski right there on the bottom beginner slopes." My 3 year old grand-daughter, last year, insisted she wanted to ski (we had not planned for her to do so, too young and too headstrong). Her mother, a strong girl and very good skier, got her boots, skis and a helmet and got stuck in. Romy absolutely refused to even consider having anybody holding her hand or helping in any other way, just pointed skis downhill and set off. Mother had to overtake, ski round her and catch her. And then go back up the magic carpet. The child loved it but learnt nothing. Mother was pretty knackered.
At Christmas Romy will be 4. Her Christmas present from me is ski lessons in a small (maximum 4) group, where she will learn to snowplough and control her speed. She will do what she is told, this time, because she's more grown up and because the instructor will know exactly to deal with small kids! Fortunately she has been attending a French nursery since early September so will cope OK with being in a group with a French instructor and, almost certainly, French kids.
@carminehawk, tell us more about your plans, and in particular WHEN you plan to go skiing. We can then give you more focussed advice.
If the OP does want a high altitude area in Austria I have never been to Vent but a friend who went as a beginner enjoyed it as a beginner.I don't think it sounds very good for the more experienced skier.
Another area that intrigues me which I've not been to which is high by Austrian standards is Heligenblut.
One which I have is Galtur has a very pleasant beginners area at the bottom and is quiet though it can be quite cold as it's North facing a better bet which has a lovely sunny childrens area is down the valley at Kappl, though, you need to get a gondola up to it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Origen, so many questions asked on SH get good answers first only to develop into an ego show later, obfuscating the OP intentions.
In a parallel universe one might get different answers to the questions he asked without having to ignore personal beliefs about what is right and wrong in life/in skiing/upbringing children
@carminehawk, please check Obergurgl in Austria. I believe it is the highest altitude skiing village in Austria.
Linked by skibus with Solden, the very place my kids learned skiing long ago.
Obergurgl isn't Livigno cheap but with excellent value for small kids.
And a weekly ski schools pyrotechnic show
After all it is free
After all it is free
tatmanstours wrote:
@Onnem, with utmost respect, your opinion does strike me as an absolute load of Kaiserschmarren, but perhaps you have some evidence (other than your own unsubstantiated one) that most of Austria’s 440 ski resorts are too dangerous to take a three-year old child for its first skiing holiday.
I haven’t been able to find any up to date statistics, but the below report from Columbus Direct has French resorts in ALL of the top ten places for skiing accidents that resulted in fractures. Perhaps you may be able to cite better evidence to convince me, and the Snowheads community of concerned parents?
It is always a good idea to support your statements with research figures.
Unfortunately, the ones you link are about fractures; not about collisions.
Just logical reasoning. And my personal observations over 60+ ski weeks.
1. The density of ski areas per square km in Austria, is much higher than France, or Italy. Just count and divide by surface area of the mountain massifs.
2. You can replace a 2-seater chair with a 4, then 6, then 8. This solves the waiting time issue. But exponentially worsens overcrowding on the slopes.
3. There is no place to widen slopes, or add new slopes, is majority of Austrian resorts. Even if there were, it would not get permission.
4. Obiously there are exceptions to this rule-of-thumb. Find them, and you'll have unworried skiing without having to look over your shoulder to see if there's not a would-be-Hermann-Maier coming at you.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Obergurgl would be amazing (although better if they had a moving carpet at the nursery slope). The run down from the first stage of the Hohe Mutbahn could not be flatter or straighter for a between the legs snow plough run with parents.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The picture below is in Valloire, carnival holiday, mid February 2024, busiest weeks of the season.