 Poster: A snowHead
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looking to invest in transponders so we can enjoy going off piste.
been skiing on and off piste for over 30 years with out one but son is now persuaded we should get then.
i know this is a can of worms but are there any recommendation on which one to look at.
i understand that multi antenna are better than singles but apart from that i need help.
cheers
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Other people with more tech savvy will be along shortly, but here to point out the obvious that a transceiver is useless without also having a probe, shovel and a bit of an idea how to use them all.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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agreed. i have a shovel, but daft may be not the probe in the back pack.
did a basic course before i went on a 1 week fresh track trip when i was in early twenties.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Could be a good idea to do another skills course first, and maybe work out what you want once you have had a chance to try gear out.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@nt.farmer, good that you've come round to the idea of carrying safety gear!!
With the transceiver, they all pretty much do the same thing, as our guide for my course told us, all transceivers are stupid and easily confused. The key is to practise with whichever one you decide to buy and know how to use it should the need arise.
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Scary OP here. You might as well carry a chocolate teapot as a shovel alone. If you can't find someone you simply can't rescue them. Very glad to hear that you've decided to invest in some kit though. Well done to your son.
That said, I've heard good reviews about the Ortovox Diract Voice although I haven't used it myself. Basically it talks to you and tells you what to do rather you having to interpret the beeps and arrows on the screen. If you're not going to participate in a practice session at least once per season then I'd go for this. Assuming you do buy something then practice a few times with your son at home. Just hiding one under some leaves will be a good start.
Whatever you choose stick to the simple model (I don't mean cheap though) as only people who use the advanced ones day in day out will be able to use the features without confusion in an emergency.
I've, fortunately, not had to rescue anyone but I know friends who have and unless you are extremely disciplined it can turn into a panicked shambles in an instant. I remember almost having palpitations just doing a practice session when one minute into it the guide started screaming at us saying he was dying under the snow and wanted to be rescued to see his wife and child again. He shouted and screamed all the way through until we had rescued the hidden transceiver - i.e. him. At the end he said he wanted to inject a bit of realism and even that was nothing like the adrenaline of a real rescue. Christ!, But that was an experience.
Some basic understanding of your safety kit and rescue is also invaluable. How to assemble your shovel, how to lock your pole so it doesn't fall apart mid-use, where to dig from (you never dig straight down from above) and how to recognise that your transceiver has just started transmitting again (a built in safety feature for most in case of a second avalanche) in the middle of a search. Even simple stuff that would seem blindingly obvious looking from the outside is missed. Don't stand around watching the lead person do the detailed, final location search. Get your bags off and your probes and shovels assembled and ready to use. Minutes and seconds are vital.
Final bit of advice, make sure you know which routes you are skiing and that everyone in your group has the local area piste security numbers already in your phones as trying to find glasses to read it from a piste map in an emergency is a joke and wasting very precious time. What3Words is an useful app also.
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@nt.farmer, If you're planning on skiing off piste without a guide, I'd recommend that you do a course that is a little more than just Transceiver skills. You need more than just that. Lots of folks out there provide them. Snoworks in Tignes are good, or if you're a member of the AAC (UK) or the Ski Club GB, they do them too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Modern transceivers are all pretty good, but there have been some improvements in the last couple of years so it's definitely worth getting hold of the latest model of whichever you are interested in. Watch some videos to get an idea of the complexity – you don't need the most complex model, one you can understand well and use quickly is better.
| rickboden wrote: |
| What3Words is an useful app also. |
Everything else you've said is good info, but I don't think this bit is true, assuming you're trying to get rescued in France, Austria, Italy etc. rather than Scotland. Unless it's changed recently, the app will give you a different location depending on what language you are using, so you are not necessarily getting the same info as the person you are trying to relay it too. Then add in wind noise/poor phone signal/accent and translation issues, and it's a recipe for confusion. Better to use the coordinates on your compass app, or use an app that sends your location data directly to emergency services (again, this may be regional – we have one in Tirol).
What3Words seems to be popular in the UK, but I've never seen reference to its use here in Austria. Be careful relying on apps that are very regional in their usage.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What3words is designed for an urban environment to hit a very small target. Hopeless in a howling gale on top of a mountain. Better to use OS Locate or local equivalent and stick to numbers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
Modern transceivers are all pretty good, but there have been some improvements in the last couple of years so it's definitely worth getting hold of the latest model of whichever you are interested in. Watch some videos to get an idea of the complexity – you don't need the most complex model, one you can understand well and use quickly is better.
| rickboden wrote: |
| What3Words is an useful app also. |
Everything else you've said is good info, but I don't think this bit is true, assuming you're trying to get rescued in France, Austria, Italy etc. rather than Scotland. Unless it's changed recently, the app will give you a different location depending on what language you are using, so you are not necessarily getting the same info as the person you are trying to relay it too. Then add in wind noise/poor phone signal/accent and translation issues, and it's a recipe for confusion. Better to use the coordinates on your compass app, or use an app that sends your location data directly to emergency services (again, this may be regional – we have one in Tirol).
What3Words seems to be popular in the UK, but I've never seen reference to its use here in Austria. Be careful relying on apps that are very regional in their usage. |
I agree to some extent. I've found it in use in France. I don't ski as much as I'd like to in Austria so bow to your knowledge.
I used it on Gentiane in Tignes last year to help get the pisteurs to an injured lady after describing roughly where she was. Worked no problem.
Unless you are fluent in French (or other local language) you won't be reporting an emergency in a foreign language. It will be English.
Most people don't know how to access their GPS coordinates on their phone.
Anyhow, whatever works for you to tell them where you are. General area first then specifics afterwards is all good imo.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
...use an app that sends your location data directly to emergency services (again, this may be regional – we have one in Tirol).
What3Words seems to be popular in the UK, but I've never seen reference to its use here in Austria. Be careful relying on apps that are very regional in their usage. |
In UK we have "PhoneFind", which just gets the phone to report the location directly. The CRO use that for fell rescues in the Dales anytime they're not sure of a shout's location as reported there - search for phonefind to see how it's used in the real world. People don't need to do anything to use this, which is why it's so useful. If you look at the reports from last month there's an example of where it fails (when you're seeing emergency outgoing calls only), because they need to get back to you suck the GPS location out of your phone.
I would be surprised if other nations didn't use similar electronic approaches.
Note also from that 2024 report:
| Clapham CRO wrote: |
| ... If you need to tell the emergency services where you are, they will ask you to use What3Words. Please, always insist on also giving a description and placename in case of spelling errors. We understand that OS Locate may be re-launched as a free addition to OS map purchases at a later date |
I think they're saying that if you don't know where you are, then What3Words is what the 999 services will ask you to use to find out. That's not the same as saying it's a superior approach to, you know, actually knowing where you are and all! They just need to know where you are, and most folk getting rescued will manage What3Words easiest. Often folk are getting rescued precisely because they don't know where they are!
If your location isn't entirely crystal clear the CRO will PhoneFind you anyway. It's easy [if you're in service and power...] and less prone to error.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rickboden wrote: |
| Unless you are fluent in French (or other local language) you won't be reporting an emergency in a foreign language. It will be English. |
Yes, you are correct, but you are assuming the person on the other end of the line is also operating in English. The German version of the app will spit out three different words for the location.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| rickboden wrote: |
I agree to some extent. I've found it in use in France. I don't ski as much as I'd like to in Austria so bow to your knowledge.
I used it on Gentiane in Tignes last year to help get the pisteurs to an injured lady after describing roughly where she was. Worked no problem.
Unless you are fluent in French (or other local language) you won't be reporting an emergency in a foreign language. It will be English.
Most people don't know how to access their GPS coordinates on their phone.
Anyhow, whatever works for you to tell them where you are. General area first then specifics afterwards is all good imo. |
Interesting. Did they ask you for the W3Ws code, did W3Ws give you three French or English words and do you know if they actually used it? I guess they would have to have the dual second language set in English in their app.
IMHO, within the ski resort boundary, it is relatively simple. On piste you just name the piste and the piste marker number you are above. Off piste is trickier but a name of the sector, or the two pistes you are in between normally suffices.
Outside of the resort boundary, you SHOULD know how to access the your co-ordinates in the local mapping system. From experience, having called in a helicopter from the PGHM about 10years ago the French were using a SARLOC/Phonefind function then so they would definately have one now.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| or use an app that sends your location data directly to emergency services (again, this may be regional – we have one in Tirol). |
Which app is this? I have a couple, and wonder if one of them is what you're referring to
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nt.farmer wrote: |
looking to invest in transponders so we can enjoy going off piste.
been skiing on and off piste for over 30 years with out one but son is now persuaded we should get then.
i know this is a can of worms but are there any recommendation on which one to look at.
i understand that multi antenna are better than singles but apart from that i need help.
cheers |
There are no bad transceivers on the market. Ideally, get one you have used and liked from your course and practice with it. Then, when you get to resort, practice again, but on skis in snow. Doing a wide search on skis is an important skill missed out in a lot of practice training I see. It is also difficult to move around in deep snow without skis so knowing when to take your skis off (as late as possible) is really important. The final bit is actually probe and dig for a buried rucksack. There is a lot more to it than pone might think, even if you have read up on digging techniques.
Having been involved in an actual avalanche rescue (not my party, saw the guy get caught) adrenaline and panic really make things tough so having things as automated as possible helps..... alot!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| galpinos wrote: |
| rickboden wrote: |
I agree to some extent. I've found it in use in France. I don't ski as much as I'd like to in Austria so bow to your knowledge.
I used it on Gentiane in Tignes last year to help get the pisteurs to an injured lady after describing roughly where she was. Worked no problem.
Unless you are fluent in French (or other local language) you won't be reporting an emergency in a foreign language. It will be English.
Most people don't know how to access their GPS coordinates on their phone.
Anyhow, whatever works for you to tell them where you are. General area first then specifics afterwards is all good imo. |
Interesting. Did they ask you for the W3Ws code, did W3Ws give you three French or English words and do you know if they actually used it? I guess they would have to have the dual second language set in English in their app.
IMHO, within the ski resort boundary, it is relatively simple. On piste you just name the piste and the piste marker number you are above. Off piste is trickier but a name of the sector, or the two pistes you are in between normally suffices.
Outside of the resort boundary, you SHOULD know how to access the your co-ordinates in the local mapping system. From experience, having called in a helicopter from the PGHM about 10years ago the French were using a SARLOC/Phonefind function then so they would definately have one now. |
I used English. I couldn't see a piste marker as I was skiing down the off piste and encountered her slightly off the piste just before I came back on to the piste. It looked like she had hurtled out of control, off the piste into the off piste. I called it in and they dispatched the blood wagon from the top. I then added the W3W location after as we were initially talking through what seemed wrong with her as she appeared concussed. I've no idea whether they actually used it or not. By the time they arrived we had her wrapped in our jackets and some skis crossed above and below with someone by the piste looking out for them so we weren't too hard to find. They might easily have used Phonefind. It was one of those (I'm not very well prepared for this) moments where you just try and do your best having encountered something you weren't prepared for. Interestingly we all remembered lots of bits of the details but no one had a full picture of everything that happened. I guess a bit like shock.
Which brings me back to my original comment to the OP. Make it as easy as possible by straight forward, simple kit and practice because when you really need it your mind will already be in overload and pannicked.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@swskier, The one I have shows up as "SOS EU ALP" and has a red SOS icon. I think there is probably automatic locating between modern phones and emergency services anyway, but that one displays your location in big on the screen, as well as passing it on if you hit the emergency button. I believe it works in Bavaria, Tirol and South Tyrol.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| @swskier, The one I have shows up as "SOS EU ALP" and has a red SOS icon. I think there is probably automatic locating between modern phones and emergency services anyway, but that one displays your location in big on the screen, as well as passing it on if you hit the emergency button. I believe it works in Bavaria, Tirol and South Tyrol. |
That's what I have, so that's good. There's also echosos which seems to do the same thing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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> everyone in your group has the local area piste security numbers already in your phones
An additional tip - I prefix the entry with a # in my phone book so it's the first thing you see in the Contacts, and in addition add it as a favourite, rather than having to scroll down to Zermatt in a panic!
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@Diggery, easier in Andermatt!
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Do people in Europe use PLB’s or inreach much? Very little phone coverage where I am, so some kind of emergency locator is standard equipment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@hang11, in my limited experience, no they are not popular. The resorts are so developed you are never really that far from other people and perhaps even phone signal. There's just not the huge areas of unpopulated wilderness like Alaska for example.
I would never criticise someone for carrying one - it's an additional level of safety, but I'm also yet to meet anyone carrying one where I thought it wasn't a little overkill for what they were doing.
As for op question, I would agree with @galpinos, there are no "bad" modern transceivers (well until the next recall at least  ). Best to find something you get on with and find most intuitive. For some this is voice props, for others maybe not. Some of the "pro" level transceivers are probably overkill and extra bells and whistles may cause more confusion than solve problems.
The best thing is making good decisions so you are never caught in the first place. Having the equipment is good as a backup, but you need to know how to use it.
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@hang11, I think read on here that @weathercam carries one while he's touring on his own.
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