 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi, has anyone had any experience of the Skiing requirements for A level PE at all ? I am hoping to get to La Tania with my son to do some filming as evidence and it looks like we need to film some competitive slalom runs.
The exam board AQA specification includes
Skiing
Students will be assessed in their performance in the role of their choice across each area of assessment in the fully competitive context (indoor/outdoor on snow, not dry slope).
Students will be assessed in two races in different disciplines (slalom, giant slalom, super giant slalom, downhill or skier cross).
At A-level at least one race should be on the steeper terrain.
Dont ask for much do they !!! 
We did the same for GCSE and that was a lot easier to organise .
Hopefully someone has done this and can put my mind to rest
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@bert7cosby, does your son race? If not, I'd probably recommend him to choose a different sport.
Rob@rar has experience of working with exam boards and skiing I believe.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Will be interested to hear how this goes. Rob@rar will, as suggested, be your best bet, being a ski instructor with a background in education.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If your son is really keen to make skiing his chosen sport, can I suggest a short course in racing with the videos in a dome? I think https://www.impulse-racing.co.uk/ do it, https://www.uniqsnowsports.com/ probably do too, and there's plenty others. Rather than spending precious holiday time trying to find the required type of course (generally not open to the public) and filming?
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I have sent rob a pm, thanks
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If you are struggling I know that the Snowdomes in Castleford and Manchester are holding a series of slalom events just for GCSE and A-Level.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@bert7cosby, From what I remember from A-Level PE x 3 is the key wording is "fully competitive" and "appropriate rules from their National Governing Body (NGB). As such a once or twice a year skier doesn't qualify. Your son would need to be part of a recognised Ski Club and training/competing regularly in competitions organised by or for Snowsport England. @Canuck, suggestion might be feasible but if he's year 12, you're cutting it fine. You could try hooking up with a Snowsport England Club. https://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/clubs-facilities/
My 3 offspring were all 16 year old Ski Instructors but used different sports for their PE A-Levels.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Fri 8-03-24 18:16; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Out of interest I looked up sailing as an A level sport. Definitely racing. My daughter has skied since she was four - just one or two weeks most years, a few lessons. She is also an experienced dinghy sailor and senior instructor (formal RYA qualifications) and taught sailing a fair bit including two whole summers as a schoolgirl. She would be able to get a good grade in sailing as an A level sport, I imagine, but not skiing. As a kid who's skied since she was tiny, and with a very athletic husband to keep up with now, she's a good skier, but it's not the same.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Canucks suggestion of impulse is probably your best bet if you aren't already racing. They do entry level schools races at hemel on mondays.
https://www.tickettailor.com/events/nssa/1068937
Not sure what they mean about the steeper terrain, its either a technical or speed event. Perhaps they mean one needs to be a speed event, if it does then you have no chance.
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I'm a competitive sailor and former RYA Club Racing Coach (terminology has probably changed since I let my qualifications lapse). Like @Origen, I had a look at the requirements for sailing. The expectation set out is for a fairly high level of competitive sailing, certainly at the front end of most club racing. This level is way beyond what someone could get to if their only sailing was on 1 or 2 weeks of holiday a year. It's at a level where someone would likely to be sailing at least weekly and likely more for at least a couple of years (and probably much longer).
Presumably it's meant to be a level playing field between sports so the expected level of skiing would be similar, which the language used suggests is the case. "In the full competitive context" suggests far more than a bit of filming on a ski holiday and the description of what's looked for in terms of skills looks like you'd need race training.
I'd be interested in the views of any instructors with experience of coaching / assessing skiing as a sport for A-Level PE.
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You know it makes sense.
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This document appears to give a bit more information, including defining the required competitive context in the case of skiing as:
"These will involve time keeping/measuring whilst making it apparent that other competitors are in attendance."
Are the school providing any advice?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Just do English. Far easier. Read some books and write essays about them!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Any reason why it’s Alpine skiing only and not freestyle. Freestyle is after all an Olympic sport and they allow dance as a sport.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I expect it is because it is even nore inaccessible than alpine aki racing is for school children, which takes some doing to be honest. Competitive junior ski racing is at least well established.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Specifications in A level PE have changed considerably the past few years to the point where it is practically impossible to achieve maximum practical marks unless you're almost a national level performer. I haven't taught A level PE for a number of years (now Primary focussed), but a colleague at the school I previously worked at was tearing his hair out a few years back at how even a high performing County level tennis player was unable to achieve top marks. It used to be more a judgement on technical performance, but the competition element is more important now.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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How much emphasis is placed on the coaching side of things? My daughter became a sailing instructor at 16 and worked voluntarily for the sailing club. She's not competitive herself, and never much enjoyed racing or competitive rig-tweaking, but she was very good at coaching beginners - kids and adults - and I know that some young footballers do the same sort of thing, which I think is brilliant, and at least as worthwhile as working on their own performance. Competitive sports people can be so self-absorbed. My daughter in law was a competitive swimmer and for some years taught swimming as an ASA coach. Both her daughters assisted (and were paid) and I think that experience is hugely valuable for a teenager.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Bluntski wrote: |
| Specifications in A level PE have changed considerably the past few years to the point where it is practically impossible to achieve maximum practical marks unless you're almost a national level performer. I haven't taught A level PE for a number of years (now Primary focussed), but a colleague at the school I previously worked at was tearing his hair out a few years back at how even a high performing County level tennis player was unable to achieve top marks. It used to be more a judgement on technical performance, but the competition element is more important now. |
Agreed.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sat 9-03-24 9:12; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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If coming to Val d'Isere happy to assist - im a ski instructor here obviously but also a qualified school teacher and done plenty of GCSE assessments over the years etc.
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| Origen wrote: |
| How much emphasis is placed on the coaching side of things? My daughter became a sailing instructor at 16 and worked voluntarily for the sailing club. She's not competitive herself, and never much enjoyed racing or competitive rig-tweaking, but she was very good at coaching beginners - kids and adults - and I know that some young footballers do the same sort of thing, which I think is brilliant, and at least as worthwhile as working on their own performance. Competitive sports people can be so self-absorbed. My daughter in law was a competitive swimmer and for some years taught swimming as an ASA coach. Both her daughters assisted (and were paid) and I think that experience is hugely valuable for a teenager. |
Yes there definitely used to be that option (and officiating too...unless I'm confused by the mists of time and that was just the GCSE!). I've just checked the AQA spec linked above and found the following so it's still an option, but looks extremely difficult in the context of students who may be "generalists" and not hugely committed to high level performance sport in one discipline (who used to make up the majority of our cohort back in the day):
Role requirement for a coach
The coach will be expected to plan, coordinate and lead participants to demonstrate the selected skills/techniques in a fully competitive performance setting.
The coach should demonstrate an understanding of the requirements and expectations of the role before, during and after the competitive performance to ensure all participants are safe and recognised techniques are developed.
They will also be required to implement strategies and tactics to maximise the strengths of the performers involved in the particular competitive performance when appropriate to alter the tactics to facilitate a different outcome; and to have the ability to justify their decisions during and after the performance.
The coach will be expected to analyse the performance of an individual within a fully competitive/performance context to identify one skill to be developed to enhance performance.
The coach will deliver a planned progressive session to modify the chosen skill so that performance of this skill is refined.
This process should be repeated for each of the Areas of assessment (one skill from Area of assessment 1, one skill form Area of assessment 2 and one skill from Area of assessment 3).
The coach will complete this process on a chosen core skill and one advanced skill from each Area of assessment.
Coach: Area of assessments 1 and 2
Detailed guidance explaining the relevant skills/techniques is outlined for each activity.
The coach will be assessed on their ability to analyse the effective execution of the relevant skills/techniques by their performer/s and suggest changes as required during and after the performance.
Coach: Area of assessment 3
Students will be assessed on their preparation, evaluation, analysis and execution of the following considerations:
general strategies employed to achieve the overall aim/objective
specific tactics that help achieve the strategies
game or performance plans related specifically to attacking and defensive play
specific set plays to outwit an opponent
ability to modify and execute changes as required.
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Wow - yes, that sounds like a big ask! I guess it depends on the level required. Most sailing instructors would regularly be doing some of that - a blackboard "theory" session followed by a race on the water, with the instructors dashing round in RIBs shouting and watching for rule infringement, poor tactics and (at lower levels) kids on port tack yelling "Starboard" at all and sundry. From my experience some young sailors who are themselves good helms, are pretty hopeless at "coaching" and really not interested - only got the qualification to have something to put on their CVs and maybe a summer job in the Mediterranean! Next time I see my PE teacher son in law, I must ask him.
I have no idea what happens in music. If a student is OK (or even very good) at the written/theory part of the exam, but has only a poor level of personal performance, they presumably couldn't get the top grade. Or if they were good performers but had very poor written English.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I didn't think you could work as a ski race coach until 18 in the UK system.
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Then in that case you're buggered if you want to take the coaching route unless your birthday is in September 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Bluntski, not for all sports. You can be an RYA Race Coach (qualifies you to teach dinghy racing at club and I think regional level) from 16 years.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
I think when you compare it to the A level for music (AMRSM Grade 6-8 ) or dance (RAD grade 6-Advanced) both of which would usually require private tuition plus 3-4 hours of practice a week, every week, from about age 8. Or all the math learning and homework from age 8 to A level maths (that's a lot of hours!). It seems fully reasonable that this is the sort of standard they're after.
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Exactly.
Even compared to other sports, where most people will have presumably been playing since a young age, multiple times per week almost all year round.
But we are back to the commonly held idea that people can become "advanced" at skiing doing only 1 or 2 weeks per year. While the same idea in learning a language, musical instrument, or any other sport would be laughed at.
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@sugarmoma666, sorry, I was just meaning for skiing (re rjs's comment). I know many other sports allow coaching qualifications to be awarded from 16+
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You know it makes sense.
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The foundation performance coach qualification with Snowsports England can be achieved at 16.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I don't know for certain but from being around it, id say you can qualify and instruct at 16 but you cant race coach until 18 like rjs said.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Glosterwolf, 16 for Snowsports England level 1 coach, same as the equivalent instructor qualification
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@bert7cosby, how did you get on with this in the end? There's someone on the "Facebook Ski Club" who was directed here as they're having issues with the exam board requirements. It's always interesting to hear how these things pan out and to build the knowledge base for others.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My best friends son Started skiing as soon as he could stand and had really good.Instruction all the way through.
Hes also a natural athlete and good with ball skills + raced toppers weekly for two years all over the ciubtry.
when he was sixteen He entered the competition class skiing tuition in Val D'Isere.
Most of the people in the class.Were French teenagers not the locals who had skiing as PE all winter but still very good experienced skiers Who would?
Probably do four or more weeks this season open instruction.
To give you an idea of the level expected at 16 on the day that all the other ski schools did their races wiggling between a few slalom poles. Ryan skied the ladies downhill into la Daille at full speed as far as I could see.
The route was designed to avoid them getting too much air.But I have to say I was absolutely God's packed at the speed.They went past us.It didn't seem much different to a proper downhill.And I remember watching Pirman Zubriggan Play down there once.
Following the week and the race , he was invited to come undo four weeks summer coaching on the grand motte With the french competition group.
He never did it as ski racing wasn't really an ambition But I would think that's the kind of level you should be looking at to get an A star.
As another comparable My two boys studied Piano from the age of 4 to 18. By the time they We're doing grade 8 they were practising an hour per day minimum.
I wish your son the very best of luck , but it shouldn't be an easy ride to get a top grade in any subject at A level
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 10-11-24 22:25; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
it shouldn't be an easy ride to get a top grade in any subject at A level
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Exactly. Expectations seem way high. Being "good at" something shouldn't be enough to get you a Grade A at A level. Not even reading some books and writing essays about them. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Origen, IIRC to get top marks on the practical, you have to be participating close to national level in your chosen sport.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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From the look of this to get top marks you'd need to be adult eurotest pass level? Or is that still too low?
This link has a useful picture for this I think https://www.snowsportengland.org.uk/talent-pathway/
Am I right the student would need to be somewhere in the light grey row above snow sports clubs and below GB selection to get top marks?
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@bert7cosby,
My first thought was to suggest you go to Val D'Isere & book Steve Angus, but he's beat me to it!
Second was try Apex2100 in Tignes - but I think Steve is the better option.
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| Quote: |
IIRC to get top marks on the practical, you have to be participating close to national level in your chosen sport.
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There are certainly far easier, and MUCH cheaper, ways of getting a top grade at A level!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
| Quote: |
IIRC to get top marks on the practical, you have to be participating close to national level in your chosen sport.
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There are certainly far easier, and MUCH cheaper, ways of getting a top grade at A level! |
Agreed off the top of my head it's probably only sailing and polo/equestrian that are more expensive, assuming that F1 doesn't count as an A level sport 
For example some top level field hockey clubs would potentially give opportunities for talented under 18s to take some squad places for away games (especially end of season dead rubbers) which would be in the region of national level. Seems a bit easier than trying to get BASS points or a GB snow sports squad place.
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@Henwc, My reading of the AQA document is that it doesn't require someone to be at national team level, just that they need to be able to demonstrate that they know what they are doing in two properly organized races. I don't think that someone would be able to get to this standard though unless they had been doing race training for a few years.
I do think that a student would need to have been working with an experienced coach for some time, typically in a club context, for them to be able to meet the performance analysys assessment requirements when they are looking back at their own performance during the two races.
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