 Poster: A snowHead
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I've got an Orotvox 3+ that I bought in 2013, so next season it'll be 12 years old. I've been reading about lifespan of these devices and see some recommendations saying to replace every 10 years if not sooner.
Mine has been carefully looked after, transported in hand luggage, used around 12-15 days a year apart from 2020-2023 when I didn't get away, and batteries removed every season - so far less use than a professional would see in a single season. It self tests OK and is picked up in transceiver checks with partners.
I'm happy to replace since it's an essential safety device (only following good decision making, obvs.), but don't want to create e-waste or spend if I don't need to. If it still functions it could be a target for search practice in a field.
The new Diract voice looks pretty good, and the Mammut seems widely praised although I'm not as keen on the form factor or harness.
What are the thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How many aerials has it got (2 or 3) and does it do signal differentiation in multiple search mode (ie it can tell between 2 or more receivers by the minute differences in signal). If the answer is 2 and no - maybe time to change - search tech has moved on
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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3 ariels and a good multiple search/marking feature, but it is getting old now. Thinking about replacing mine.
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Most Canadian guides won't let you ski with one that's 10+ years old irrespective of use. {anecdotal knowledge use at your own risk - the antenna can "degrade" so the transmit frequency isn't quite right such that it won't be picked up in search - try a range check on yours}
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Well I’ve just retired my F1 Focus from 1999, probably a little overdue to be honest. Replaced with the Diract non-voice which I’m very happy with.
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Thanks.
Yup, feature set seems ok but outright age was what I was concerned (sceptical?!) about with regards range degradation and frequency drift.
I might ask Mrs Santa for exactly that next year, Diract non voice.
I can then conduct regular drills and range test the old one before deciding if it's even good enough for a backup or not.
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The voice one I think is good if you’re relatively new to using a transceiver but if you’re moving up from something like an F1 is a massive improvement.
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Im in similar position with mammut pulse (red), purchased 10 years ago.
Will be able to sell the old one on ebay no probs, people will be using it for training etc, so no waste.
As contrary, something build 10 years ago could be much better quality then fresh products cutting costs of everything...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have transceivers much older than 12 years.
Easy enough to do a search test is it not?
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I replaced a 3+ purchased when they first came out this season FWIW. Went for a Mammut Barryvox
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Layne wrote: |
Easy enough to do a search test is it not? |
I was thinking of that too.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Not that easy when you only have one...
If anyone near South Yorkshire wants to meet up to test range and practice searches at some point over summer then let me know!
But yeah, I can test the range. If that's all there is to it that's great. But the articles I said stated replace, not test, which is why I am checking.
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I got a lot of F1s and even a VS68. Great devices for getting found or finding one other guy. Not so great at solving multi-burials. Solution: avoid multi-burials.
One thing often overlooked/underreported is the very short range of early digital devices compared to the analoge ones. Only the latest models are on the same level. As for the Ortovox 3+, it's quite good at getting found because of the smart antenna, but I wouldn't expect great things when it comes to searching. So it's a good thing to lend out to a skiing partner.
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You know it makes sense.
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If your transceiver is older than your phone and your phone is out of date then bin both of them and get new ones.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| GlasgowCyclops wrote: |
| If your transceiver is older than your phone and your phone is out of date then bin both of them and get new ones. |
I got a shiny new phone last week. Flagship model, works super smooth. Much worse for outdoors than the old one from '17.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Tristero wrote: |
| As for the Ortovox 3+, it's quite good at getting found because of the smart antenna, but I wouldn't expect great things when it comes to searching. So it's a good thing to lend out to a skiing partner. |
I think you've got that the wrong way around. If I had the choice I'd want my partner to have the best device for searching (for me).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Tristero wrote: |
| As for the Ortovox 3+, it's quite good at getting found because of the smart antenna, but I wouldn't expect great things when it comes to searching. So it's a good thing to lend out to a skiing partner. |
I think you've got that the wrong way around. If I had the choice I'd want my partner to have the best device for searching (for me). |
But no. You don't need to lend out a beacon to someone you expect to find you in case of an avalanche. Just doesn't work like that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Think of your transceiver as you would a parachute, just because it hasn’t had to save your life yet, are you willing to risk your life and someone else's?
Even if it’s relatively new, make sure the software is up to date. I’ve used FaceWest before to do mine, and you get a test certificate (on Barryvox’s ) from them showing its fully operational.
https://www.facewest.co.uk/Avalanche-Transceiver-Software-Updates.html
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How often are parachutes typically retired?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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A quick search suggests max of 10 years, depending on usage, with inspection/repacking/servicing every 6/12 months if not used.
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| Quote: |
A quick search suggests max of 10 years, depending on usage, with inspection/repacking/servicing every 6/12 months if not used.
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It isn't really time actually for your main, it is more number of jumps, time exposure to UV, where you jump (desert sands is abrasive, more life span if you land in a grassy field), any water exposure and where you pack it (inside/outuside and on what surface).
'Modern' canopies are made out of ZP which is probably good for like 3000 jumps taking into account variations with the above factors, and you need to have re-lines done on your main more frequently (maybe every 700ish jumps).
Reserves are a little different in that they are inspected every 6 months in the UK (different in other jurisdictions) and reserves of 10+ years would be totally totally normal. Maybe after 20+ years you might start to consider a new one even if its in good condition, but again it is highly dependent on number of reserve rides, number of repacks and how it has been stored. Age itself isn't a major depredating factor on modern reserves.
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Don't worry about replacing it (although the 3+ isn't my favourite transceiver) but you should get it re-certified by Ortovox. This is inexpensive and removes any doubt re frequency drift, antenna damage, etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thank you, @kat.ryb.
| under a new name wrote: |
I'm not convinced a chute's a terribly close analogy to a transceiver, however?  |
But the analysis should be. In other words, not just a blanket number, provided by merchants motivated to increase their sale.
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@abc, fair points, indeed.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I have a Barryvox that is approaching 18 years old. I have it serviced by Ortovox every couple of years to make sure it is working properly and for software upgrades. It works great but I was informed by someone much more knowledgeable than I, that Ortovox will stop servicing this model this year. That would suggest it is about time to change. New model due out this year too. Coincidence?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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A bit off topic indeed, but the above post highlights my concerns over the blanket "10 year" statement on a transceiver from some manufacturers.
10 years at a pisteur, or 10 years as a recreational holidaymaker?
I am cautious. I want to be safe. But I would think inspect/check would cover it unless there's some repeatable degradation going on.
Same with bike helmets - the manufacturers all state 3-5 years, but this varies on storage, conditions, use, UV, transportation (soft bag or kicking around a van). Independent testing showed age wasn't a large factor in performance degradation.
If there's a case the 3+ isn't great in a search I may well relegate it to backup. It would be nice to quantify my decision though!
I actually just found that Ortovox do recommend a 2 yearly service after 5 years, with a 10 year disclaimer on repairs. 25 Euro plus shipping might be worth checking
https://help.ortovox.com/hc/en-001/articles/9086125479965-Avalanche-transceiver-check-up-or-repair-Costs-how-to#h_01HD15ZWHZZ2CJ8XRC4JF3XD1S
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As a Pisteur, we get our transceivers revised/checked every year until the manufacturer says its too old. We have to do this as it must be manufacturer garenteed to be a primary search beacon.
The beacons are then used as beacons for the Piste basher drivers. We check them ourselves for frequency drift, transmit and search range ever year. They are used in this roll for 10 years if they stay withing specs. At this point we would consider them perfectly fine for personal safety devices. But the rulles dictate that we can keep them in (so called) frontline use
Then they become practice search beacons. We have some early Ortovox F1s kicking around, they still work fine. A fun challancge is watch one of the younger guys do a search with one of these!
So to answer your question. get your beacon checked ad stick with it.
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Joint01
Joint01
Guest
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| Idris wrote: |
As a Pisteur, we get our transceivers revised/checked every year until the manufacturer says its too old. We have to do this as it must be manufacturer garenteed to be a primary search beacon.
The beacons are then used as beacons for the Piste basher drivers. We check them ourselves for frequency drift, transmit and search range ever year. They are used in this roll for 10 years if they stay withing specs. At this point we would consider them perfectly fine for personal safety devices. But the rulles dictate that we can keep them in (so called) frontline use
Then they become practice search beacons. We have some early Ortovox F1s kicking around, they still work fine. A fun challancge is watch one of the younger guys do a search with one of these!
So to answer your question. get your beacon checked ad stick with it. |
The manufacturer doesn't know shiz about the state my transceiver, I will decide when it's "too old"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Joint01 wrote: |
The manufacturer doesn't know shiz about the state my transceiver, I will decide when it's "too old" |
Curious to know what criteria you use to make that decision?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JudgeMent4l wrote: |
| Joint01 wrote: |
The manufacturer doesn't know shiz about the state my transceiver, I will decide when it's "too old" |
Curious to know what criteria you use to make that decision? |
Check it with some other beacons. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Diggery, I actually asked a few people about this recently. Frequency drift was only an issue with the now very old analog devices, digital ones people say that don't have issues with frequency drift.
Have you seen anything on a manufacturers site around 10 years? I couldn't find anything when I did a search.
I also asked facewest and their reply was :
| Quote: |
| there is no real time limit or life span on an transceiver. If you regularly test your transceiver against another and the signal range is still as it should be then it is perfectly good to use. Older analogue transceivers used to drift from their signal which would of course cause problems but the digital ones don't tend to do this as much. |
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| kitenski wrote: |
@Diggery, I actually asked a few people about this recently. Frequency drift was only an issue with the now very old analog devices, digital ones people say that don't have issues with frequency drift.
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Digital beacons are just a DSP on top of analogue circuitry. The main difference is the use of a crystal on more recent beacons to generate the pulse (basically everything except old Barryvox and Ortovox). The DSP actually makes the problem of out of spec beacons worse as it will exclude those signals which someone experienced with an analogue beacon may be able to pick up by ear.
Components also age, particuarly capacitors but there are different types and qualities so perhaps beacon makers use better components than a laptop or tablet.
Probably the most useful thing you can do is a range test when you first get the beacon and then repeat this say once a year before the season starts.
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Just had my 2 transceivers serviced by Facewest - would definitely recommend as they are both swift and efficient.
Posted on Monday, FW called me tuesday to advise receipt and confirm they'd been inspected, one firmware update done, and I received them on Thursday with the diagnostic reports.
£37.50 in total.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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After approx 10 years my BCA tracker 3 started draining battery at a weirdly high rate. Sent it the to the BCA service centre who said that it had a bug and couldn't be fixed. It had only had pretty light use and was stored without the batteries in when not in use. No idea how common this is, but it is the kind of fault that you would rather not discover come squeaky bum time. It appeared to function perfectly well otherwise, both in transmit and search modes. I'm not saying that you should replace yours, which isn't even the same brand, but you might want to conduct more through tests of it to beware of weird behaviour as they age
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@rambotion, interesting and something to keep an eye on! Would it drain within a day?
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| kitenski wrote: |
| @rambotion, interesting and something to keep an eye on! Would it drain within a day? |
I'd hope observing your battery life as part of you transceiver checks before setting off would would show it up or an abnormal trend. If it suddenly started using most of it battery life in a single day then fingers crossed that day and you'd know the next morning.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 18-10-24 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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@kitenski, more like 25%, and also drained further when left turned off wit the batteries in overnight. Luckily when it started doing this I was with a guide who had a spare one
@adithorp, as you say, you just spot this at the end of the day when you go to turn it off and as well as the next morning
It wasn't particularly cold and I tried a couple of sets of batteries in it before sending it off. Previously it would only have dropped by a couple of percent a day
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We have three 3+ and they all work perfectly and are great, straight forward transceiver.
What you should absolutely do if you haven't so far is send it off to Ortovox for a service and firmware update. This Should be done every three years.
It's not expensive and will give you the peace of mind that your device is working properly and fully up to date.
If you get on with it , you will have it back in time for the PSB
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Diggery, thank you so much for starting this thread.
I had never thought of getting my transceiver checked.
Will now get this sorted straightaway.
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FAQ
