 Poster: A snowHead
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Sorry for the long post!
I was snowboarding for the first time, when I caught an edge with the front of my board and fell forward, my knees bent quickly in a twisted motion. After 30 minutes, in which I continued to snowboard, my right knee started to hurt like hell and it got really swollen on the inside of the knee, in the MCL area.
I am now 1 year after the injury. I did an MRI scan twice. The doctor thought I had an MCL tear, but the MRI was negative.
Today the knee is less swollen, the doctor says that it is really stable, but it really hurts when I perform quick motions, as kicking (I used to play football and I haven’t since the injury).
It also hurts when i straighten the leg, and bend the knee inside (think about spreading your legs while standing and then trying to get the knee towards the ground).
Does anybody know what could it be?
I am so lost. Thank you very much.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ask a clinician. Sounds like mcl though, in which case a good sports physio would likely help, especially if they have a clear MRI
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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OP how old are you and what is your biological sex?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I am a male, 22.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I did in one mcl 5 years ago. It certainly didn't take a year to calm down/heal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Rotemdu, When I trashed my knee a couple of years ago it gave me serious problems for a long time. After a year my GP referred me to a Physiotherapist, suspecting MCL. Physio said even at my age MCL would have healed quicker than that and diagnosed a damaged cartilage - according to him cartilage damage can often take a year to 18 months to heal. I tended to believe him, as with treatment and doing all the exercises he gave me it was fine after about 16 months.
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| RobinS wrote: |
| @Rotemdu, When I trashed my knee a couple of years ago it gave me serious problems for a long time. After a year my GP referred me to a Physiotherapist, suspecting MCL. Physio said even at my age MCL would have healed quicker than that and diagnosed a damaged cartilage - according to him cartilage damage can often take a year to 18 months to heal. I tended to believe him, as with treatment and doing all the exercises he gave me it was fine after about 16 months. |
Interesting. What are the exercises you were given? I am open to try everything.
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@Rotemdu, go to a physio
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Rotemdu, The main one was one legged stand-ups from, initially a high stool, gradually reducing down to normal chair height. When I commented to the physio how effective the treatment and exercises had been after such a long time he did say that while he liked the credit it was "probably ready to heal anyway"
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maybe ask your doctor to look for something else instead of an MCL
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Go see a professional. Talking to random unqualified strangers on the internet is no help. Best find someone who specialises in sport injuries. An ideal might be the clinic of a member here, Jonathon Bell, he is a knee surgeon but the clinic has a physio set up which specialises in snowsports (and other sports too) https://wimbledonclinics.co.uk/ski-clinic/ .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Just because someone else has a “similar” symptom, doesn’t means the cause is the same. So the treatment may or may not work. Or even makes it worse.
Time to see a knee specialist instead of just a GP. (There’s one snowhead who happens to be a knee specialist though)
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| abc wrote: |
Time to see a knee specialist instead of just a GP. (There’s one snowhead who happens to be a knee specialist though) |
Not how it works on the NHS - You can't self-refer to a specialist
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You know it makes sense.
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@Gored, you can go private though
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Rotemdu, If it's been MRI'd (maybe X ray and ultrasound would also help; can show different things) and nothing abnormal detected then I'd definitely seek out a good physio who specialised in lower limb issues.
Post knee ligament trauma I was left with a really bad pain on the joint area which I was convinced must be bone or cartilage/meniscus. But lots of exercises to address imbalances and weaknesses from buttocks to ankle, plus stretches, have all but made it go away; most of the time. I can definitely tell when I don't keep up with them though (but in my case, with my injuries, I need to: you may not).
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Poster: A snowHead
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If the scan is “clear” and you had a significant pain and swelling medially someone isn’t right.
1) The injury was genuinely so subtle is didn’t show up on scan. _ unlikely IMO
2) The injury is subtle and the scan isn’t high enough quality/poor reporting/poor information on the clinical request form so the radiologist doesn’t spot the problem - most common reason IMO
3) The scan just genuinely isnt “seeing” the problem- not that uncommon
Some MCL injuries do persist with pain and ironically they are frequently ones that are grade 1 injuries. I see persistent pain in the deep MCL.
Can respond well to an injection of steroid targeted at the deep MCL . Here is a paper i wrote on the topic
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18938083/
Certainly there are other possibilities. Some medial meniscus tears don't show well on scan. Every year i have to have a look in a few knees that seem to have normal scans and they have a tear.
You probably need to see a knee/sports specialist if the rehab hasn’t worked at a year.
Jonathan Bell
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Joint01
Joint01
Guest
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Have you heard of stem cell therapy? Maybe that could help.
You can read more about it here: https://www.metrotimes.com/wellness/stem-cell-therapy-for-knee-pain-36958471. But the gist of it is that it's the quickest, most elegant way to heal the pain and the only nonsurgical option, and the only way to avoid invasive surgery and its attendant risks.
Last edited by Joint01 on Sat 17-08-24 15:18; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
Not how it works on the NHS - You can't self-refer to a specialist
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But you can ask your GP to do it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I’d pay for a private physio
The NHS ones these days hardly lay a hand on you and don’t have the time to see you quickly or often.
In some places you can self refer to NHS physios, there is a Musculo-Skeletal physio clinic in my area that is funded by the NHS. You call them, physio calls you back at appointed time for a telephone appointment then they might say you should now come to see us. When. Oh about a four week waiting list.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @Gored, you can go private though |
If you can afford it/have the insurance to cover it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@SnoodyMcFlude, some things are worth sacrificing for or getting a loan. An initial consultation isn't extortionate
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@holidayloverxx, true, although can't see an initial consult providing much more info than already. More likely it'll be initial consult, further scan (as suggested about) and a follow up consult. I think when I had mine done it came to about £2500. Not huge figures in the scheme of things, but that was only to a diagnosis without any treatment, and it's still not an amount to be sniffed at.
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| SnoodyMcFlude wrote: |
| I think when I had mine done it came to about £2500. Not huge figures in the scheme of things, but that was only to a diagnosis without any treatment, and it's still not an amount to be sniffed at. |
Probably quite a large amount to a 22 year old
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@swskier, I think it's a lot too, was just trying to cover off the "meh, it's only two ski trips" kind of response.
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| phil_w wrote: |
| Ask a clinician. Sounds like mcl though, in which case a good sports physio would likely help, especially if they have a clear MRI |
The question is which good sports physio? I ruptured my achilles skiing in 2015. Conservative rehab was going well until my good leg stepped on a tiny pebble and the reflex threw my weight onto my half rehabbed achilles. Two years later, and numerous physio appointments, I was still in a boot for any serious walking. Eventually I went to yet another physio and he told me to discontinue heal raises and stretching and recommended isometric on the ball of my big toe with bent knee. I never looked back. The difficulty is that even good physios have different approaches. Time is also a great healer. I've had chronic pain I thought would never go away and then some years later I remember and wonder when exactly it went away.
Anyway, I better stop reading this sub-forum and replying to old posts before I become too scared to ski. Send me a PM and I'll dig out the research paper on isometric exercise for achilles rehab. Although there isn't any more to it than what I've said already.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Paying to see a private physio or medic who specialises in knee injuries would be ideal. When I was 22 there’s no way I could have afforded that. Dare I ask what it’s like getting such a referral free, through the NHS?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The physio who cured me was on the NHS but the way these things worked at that particular point in time was that the NHS in Nottingham was outsourcing to a private hospital. But then the physio up and left and went somewhere else. I think the NHS physios are good. At nottingham the entry requirement for the physio BSc is AAB vs. the medical school which is AAA.
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I’m very pro NHS and universal access to health services but felt forced to get private physio treatment, or else struggle. My experience with a very nice but ineffective NHS physio was frustrating.
Fortunate to have a very good local private sports specialist physio, who was very practical, hands on and got results. Also found MrsPBs private physio follow up, after a complex leg break requiring a Taylor Spatial Frame for 9 months, was excellent.
I fear a 2 tier system with a huge gulf between them. But maybe there are snowHeads who know where to access good NHS physios? Theoretically patients can elect to be treated anywhere. What this works like in practice, I don’t know, but suspect it’s not easy.
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You know it makes sense.
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Someone mentioned here stem cell therapy. Read here that it leads to a quick recovery. So maybe it's worth a try.
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