 Poster: A snowHead
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Any recommendations? I might have some cash to spend, what's regarded as the best?
I'm thinking up to £1500?
I don't have much constraints on space within reason.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You should be able to get a decent set of weights and a bench and stand for that much. Squats and thrusts for leg and core strength, far better than any micky-mouse ski trainer.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Join a gym?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@under a new name, not everyone has easy access to a gym. Our local one closed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The Squat Rack, olympic bar and set of weights, should fit in your budget 
...and find online ski prep couch for at least couple of months for a change.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@holidayloverxx, annoying!
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Only one reply actually answered my question. I already have a full complement of free weights equipment, benches, racks etc. I was looking for something for a quick hit or to develop stamina as an addition to that. I'm already planning a mountain bike and Zwift program along with fast, steep hillwalking to help with cardio (I don't do running for fear of aggravating old injuries - Doctor's recommendation).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Deveron53, Turbo trainer for your bike?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Deveron53, Like everyone's supposed to have heard of Zwift.
Your attitude sucks, and starting another thread on the same subject is unlikely to endear you to many here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Deveron53, 1. It’s SHs 2. Not convinced an actual solution exists?
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IMO. The money that one of these ski trainers costs, would be better put to Private lessons. IMO. No ski simulator is going to make that much difference to your skiing ability....and the right sort of training will give you all the fitness you require.
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You know it makes sense.
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The gym I used to go to had a SkiErg, not sure if that's quite what you're looking for but was ok as a cardio exercise that I guess mimics the pole-pushing aspect of skiing, not convinced the cardio benefit was greater than using the rower though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Pogo ball, and £1490 leftover.
And Hickson intervals on the turbo.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Maybe this
It is a bit of shagpile on an infinite loop
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
@Deveron53, Like everyone's supposed to have heard of Zwift.
Your attitude sucks, and starting another thread on the same subject is unlikely to endear you to many here. |
I asked a specific question. Yes, I was a bit annoyed at the responses I got which is mostly people ignoring my question and pushing their own ideas.
I'm not here to make friends, I've been on here long enough to realise that the cliques that exist here are not ones I want to be a part of.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Deveron53, I think you need a little attitude adjustment more than another ski training toy ... 
I really don't think there's anything, other than maybe a horse. Skiing is really too specifically quasi-dynamic. Personally, I find running and roller-blading the best. Roller-nordic would probably be good but I don't need more kit.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sun 8-09-24 15:50; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Deveron53, I think you need a little attitude adjustment more than another ski training toy ...
I really don't think there's anything, other than maybe a horse. |
Thanks officer, I won't dare to step out of line in future.
I'm Soooooooooo Sorrrrry.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Deveron53,
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I'm not here to make friends, I've been on here long enough to realise that the cliques that exist here are not ones I want to be a part of.
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In which case there is an obvious answer to your question, which is - go #>*! yourself. That should be at least slightly conducive to fitness.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Hurtle, 
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@Deveron53,
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I'm not here to make friends, I've been on here long enough to realise that the cliques that exist here are not ones I want to be a part of.
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In which case there is an obvious answer to your question, which is - go #>*! yourself. That should be at least slightly conducive to fitness. |
Don't be shy, we're all adults here, no need to censor yourself.
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I'm in agreement with @Old Fartbag, the one I was told to do was squats standing on an inverted bosu ball as adding a balance element into the movement helps isolate the core, but the one I kind of adapted from that for snowboarding was again standing in a loose stance on an inverted bosu and rocking it back and forwards while keeping the upper body as still as possible. I found that it really focussed onto the thigh and calf muscles, and gave the same sensation you get when edging the board.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Deveron53, you didn’t read my post did you?
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| Deveron53 wrote: |
Any recommendations? I might have some cash to spend, what's regarded as the best?
I'm thinking up to £1500?
I don't have much constraints on space within reason. |
I had a Ski Simulator for quite a few years but recently sold it; definitely works the relevant 'muscle memory' groups and improves balance but it was bulky and I ended up staring at it rather than using it. You'll need a big(ish) garage / home gym / spare room to accommodate . . .its a massive heavy bit of kit but arguably better than other skiers edge as 'arc of movement' is significantly wider even on basic machine(s)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Any recommendations? I might have some cash to spend, what's regarded as the best?
I'm thinking up to £1500?
I don't have much constraints on space within reason.
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@Deveron53, I got one of these a year ago and rate it for a quick cardio blast:
https://silverbackgymsupplies.com/products/silverback-ski-machine
It's basically the same as the original/official Concept 2 SkiErg (https://www.concept2.co.uk/skierg/concept2-skierg) but cheaper - comes with the floor stand (which Concept 2 charge over £200 for I think), and it sits happily in my garage alongside the kettlebells and freeweights. The performance monitor on the Silverback one is not as good as the Concept 2 from what I can see - think it's a cheapo version from a rowing machine - but for me, on a tight budget, the skierg itself does the job and I just use the monitor to count up distance and time. You'll likely get better warranty etc from Concept 2. No issues with the Silverback though so far (over a year).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| aberdeenski wrote: |
| Quote: |
Any recommendations? I might have some cash to spend, what's regarded as the best?
I'm thinking up to £1500?
I don't have much constraints on space within reason.
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@Deveron53, I got one of these a year ago and rate it for a quick cardio blast:
https://silverbackgymsupplies.com/products/silverback-ski-machine
It's basically the same as the original/official Concept 2 SkiErg (https://www.concept2.co.uk/skierg/concept2-skierg) but cheaper - comes with the floor stand (which Concept 2 charge over £200 for I think), and it sits happily in my garage alongside the kettlebells and freeweights. The performance monitor on the Silverback one is not as good as the Concept 2 from what I can see - think it's a cheapo version from a rowing machine - but for me, on a tight budget, the skierg itself does the job and I just use the monitor to count up distance and time. You'll likely get better warranty etc from Concept 2. No issues with the Silverback though so far (over a year). |
Thanks for the reply. I think this is more for xc skiing though. I wanted to target the muscle groups specific to downhill skiing. I'll probably got for a Ski Simulator. I've chatted to Ski Exchange and found a particular model that will probably fit the bill.
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It's the holy grail isn't it? A device that will improve your skiing away from the slopes. I think manufacturers are aware that there are wealthy individuals who will pay top dollar for such a thing and the scepticism upthread is not unwarranted.
I looked some of these on YT. What struck me was - actually using your boots could cause all sorts of problems. A few minutes on the machine would have me cascading gallons of sweat into my boots - not ideal. I don't like the look of hand releasing them whilst balancing on the device. If you went for the no boots option you would have to be very disciplined in the how you balance above your ankle to reproduce the correct position. As others have pointed out, the device is very linear and does not reproduce the angulation and separation that occurs in a turn. If you ingrained movement patterns that don't include this 3 dimensional movement, there is a possibilty you'd degrade your performance.
I could see some use for a device like this as part of a circuit session where other aspects of ski fitness are addressed. I think it could be aerobically challenging and quite boring to use for the time you'd normally devote to an aerobic session and there's a risk losing form
I think we get a bit hung up on the destination and don't think about the multiple aspects of fitness that feed into the result. A trip to a good sports physio to assess mobility and strength together and following a programme that addresses strength, flexibility, proprioception and balance would give a more bulletproof fitness that carries over into other somewhat injury risking aspects of preparation such as running.
Tom Gellie (Big Picture Skiing) and The Clinique du Sport in Chamonix have some very comprehensive (paid but not too expensive) resources that address the wider spectrum of ski fitness.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Splenic, good post. I agree.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Deveron53, I think you need a little attitude adjustment more than another ski training toy ...
I really don't think there's anything, other than maybe a horse. Skiing is really too specifically quasi-dynamic. Personally, I find running and roller-blading the best. Roller-nordic would probably be good but I don't need more kit. |
Great point re a horse,. I have been riding my whole life , an instructor told me that's why I suffer less leg burn after a long day, I have the leg muscles and core strength , in fairness a set of skis won't run away with ya like a four year old gelding on a hunt field, but yup your using the same set of muscles .
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Poster: A snowHead
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| biddpyat wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
@Deveron53, I think you need a little attitude adjustment more than another ski training toy ...
I really don't think there's anything, other than maybe a horse. Skiing is really too specifically quasi-dynamic. Personally, I find running and roller-blading the best. Roller-nordic would probably be good but I don't need more kit. |
Great point re a horse,. I have been riding my whole life , an instructor told me that's why I suffer less leg burn after a long day, I have the leg muscles and core strength , in fairness a set of skis won't run away with ya like a four year old gelding on a hunt field, but yup your using the same set of muscles . |
Agree with this - if you've already got reasonable technique then bullet proof leg / core strength is the differentiator irrespective of how you attain this . . .I was looking for an easy fix (or a point of interest other than the boring gym) with my Ski Simulator (plus I picked it up for a good price) however the reality of actually using it and benefitting is arguably negligible . . . maybe better to spend the £ on a personal trainer IMO
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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This one https://www.skiersedge.co.uk/products mentioned already in thread, I've experienced a few times.
Not as part of training regularly, but through demonstration installations at variously Bartlett ski, ski show and a gym.
I'm deeply skeptical of simulation claims and reality being able to deliver genuine feel etc of primary event. But this seemed to me one of the exception in giving very close representation of skiing and particularly slalom type ski activities.
At ski shows it was demonstrated by the Bell brothers, one of which I was talking to about it and trying it for myself. It very quickly builds into aerobic demand and requires driving your performance as hard as needed. They are adjustable for strength and effectively cadence and ultimately the resistance that accumulation of the bands bring out at the extremity of travel. It really does feel like a run on very "hooked" up short radius skis when set to higher energy points. It will effectively "spit you out" as will a strong ski if you lack control or fully intend to control when the settings are raised fairly high, much like getting imbalanced on the wrong side of a ski edge when your talent meets its match. It does feel very real in this aspect.
I asked if he could do it without poles  which he demonstrated quite effectively, although even he was initially dubious as to if that was reachable, even he was blowing steam very quickly at that task. Impressive though in his movement and balance needed to really run the turns and keep genuine cadence out to strong angles of "turn" with attendant balance to get it there and maintain effort.
What I feel is, or at least it seems to me, the build of energy as the turns get fully resolved as it brings very significant resistance that matches very high energy skiing.
It can also be turned down to much more gentle levels, and more akin to most recreational skiers general levels of input.
I've certainly no connection at all with the company, but find fascinating that they've created something to assimilate skiing that, to me at least, appears to fulfill what it sets out /claims to do. Most things of this type come nowhere near such a match.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I used to have a Skier's Edge big mountain and found it useful for training (it really works your legs and aerobically, but in my experience didn't make much difference when out on the first day in resort) and also for improving technique. I had the standard shoulder width apart foot beds and also an off piste/powder foot bed.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Horse riding is excellent and so is inline skating .. both require a skillset so may not be applicable .. rowers ..you dont ski sitting down ( in the main), cycle machines predominantly lower body /cardio, running machines the same, ski ergs cardio and a skate pull, skiers edge isnt really any of them as a workout tool.. my view is your base should be around an elliptical stepper..you will get an excellent commercial grade norditrack that will give you all over body workout and cardio that you wont out perform and in your budget. ( I currently use an older e11.5 and play inline hockey) Throw in a versa climber and an assault bike ...ouch
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 26-09-24 21:52; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Horse riding is great for all sorts of things including balance, leg and core strength, but having taken it up only 6 years ago, now I have two expensive hobbies...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
@Deveron53, Like everyone's supposed to have heard of Zwift.
Your attitude sucks, and starting another thread on the same subject is unlikely to endear you to many here. |
What other thread?
I’ve heard of Zwift. And I’m not even a fitness nut. It’s so ubiquitous anyone who doesn’t know about it I would view his advice regarding fitness exercise with a giant grain of salt.
Deveron53 may not come with the most diplomatic style, I think he’s not half as rude as some of the response here. The guy asked a question, which in fairness doesn’t have a good answer. There’re only very few ski specific “machines” remotely worthy of recommending. But instead of politely informing him that stark fact, people were beating around the bushes.
Just because the majority of the people on this forum are unfit desk jockeys who could inevitably benefit from some sort of fitness training doesn’t mean the OP is.
My new neighbor had been a lifelong body builder. He’s super strong, and also quite fit cardio-wise. He’s new to cycling. Because our complex has quite a few steep pitches he can knock himself out with, I suggest he asked on the cycling forum for a list of good climbing bike he can buy. Well, I regretted that. Almost a total waste of time! Half the response suggested he got himself in shape before dropping any coin to buy a light weight climbing bike.  Why does everyone assume a new cyclist is unfit to begin with?
Much the same way some people here assume the OP is unfit.
Even if that being the case, why not answer the question first, or at least answer the question along the way??? Isn’t that just as rude by not answering the question asked?
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@abc, re the cycling answer, there's no point in spending double the money on a 7kg bike compared to a 8.5kg one if you're dragging >90kgs up the hill. And body building and 'quite fit cardio wise' aren't cycling fit. So they were right.
Obviously if your neighbour wants to spend £6k on a road bike he can do what he likes. But that's not what he asked.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| abc wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
@Deveron53, Like everyone's supposed to have heard of Zwift.
Your attitude sucks, and starting another thread on the same subject is unlikely to endear you to many here. |
What other thread?
I’ve heard of Zwift. And I’m not even a fitness nut. It’s so ubiquitous anyone who doesn’t know about it I would view his advice regarding fitness exercise with a giant grain of salt.
Deveron53 may not come with the most diplomatic style, I think he’s not half as rude as some of the response here. The guy asked a question, which in fairness doesn’t have a good answer. There’re only very few ski specific “machines” remotely worthy of recommending. But instead of politely informing him that stark fact, people were beating around the bushes.
Just because the majority of the people on this forum are unfit desk jockeys who could inevitably benefit from some sort of fitness training doesn’t mean the OP is.
My new neighbor had been a lifelong body builder. He’s super strong, and also quite fit cardio-wise. He’s new to cycling. Because our complex has quite a few steep pitches he can knock himself out with, I suggest he asked on the cycling forum for a list of good climbing bike he can buy. Well, I regretted that. Almost a total waste of time! Half the response suggested he got himself in shape before dropping any coin to buy a light weight climbing bike. Why does everyone assume a new cyclist is unfit to begin with?
Much the same way some people here assume the OP is unfit.
Even if that being the case, why not answer the question first, or at least answer the question along the way??? Isn’t that just as rude by not answering the question asked? |
Well, here goes...
Hi @abc , thanks for the sensible reply.
@ most the rest of you, glad to see you're all having a nice interaction. I hope your exercise regimes work out for you.
@ those of 28k+ previous posts, I'm glad I provided some amusement to you while you were busy gatekeeping Snowheads. (titter, snigger etc). You're doing valuable work, keep it up.
@abc , here's my other thread that the gatekeepers found so offensive: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=5331836&highlight=#5331836
Update: I bought a Pro Ski Simulator from Ski Exchange.
It works quite well.
Even though I do a few other exercises (such as mountain biking, Zwifting and weights based 'crossfit-style' exercises plus free weights), I do find that the Ski Machine gives me 'DOMS' in new areas of my body so I'm assuming it's exercising some new areas that I was missing.
I also bought the adaptor that adds ski bindings to allow use of ski boots.
I was lucky enough to find an identical (but older) pair of ski boots to the ones I bought new a couple of years ago.
This allows me to sweat profusely but keep my 'best' boots for snow.
Remember to oil the hinges, makes less noise that way.
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