 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi from memory so probably wrong, are all cars hired in france coming with winter tyres, so no need to hire out a set of chains from them? Going to hire from Lyon Airport , so if any one has good or bad experiences from there please let me know. thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Cars at Lyon airport do not automatically come with winter tyres. Lyon is well outside of the area covered by the Loi Montagne, so you will need to request winter tyres or chains.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ah @andmelffion, thanks for that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And if it's really snowy, get chains as well (not necessarily from the car hire people, can pick up in a supermarket) as on a busy snowy changeover day you might not be allowed up the mountain without them. I don't think there's anywhere in France where you automatically get snow tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@bigtoe, as I understand it currently, its not illegal to drive any car within the areas of notification for winter conditions with any tires available. This making it fine to use non winter tires in those area, and not a requirement of legislation to supply hire vehicles fitted with "winter" rated tires.
The shift in law requires the vehicle to have, when travelling in the defined mountain domain, any of these ..... winter rated tires, OR winter traction devices approved for use (chains, socks etc) that you can deploy. You can of course have all of these if you so desire.
Contrast to CH and some others, in which it's specified that the vehicles must be fitted with winter rated tires to be used on public roads.
Judging a car hire and what you're going to get hasn't changed for France, just your responsibility in legal demand for those areas now under controlled directive.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Origen wrote: |
| And if it's really snowy, get chains as well ... |
And even if it isn't really snowy. More than once roads have been clear all the way up to resort on arrival day, but then with a couple of feet of fresh snow on departure day.
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Try in 2 weeks, you may start to see winterisation options then
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
M&S is no longer valid.
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@Sfellows, it was never "valid"
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Digressing, out of interest, in Switzerland and Austria is there a nationwide switch to winter tyres every autumn?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
And even if it isn't really snowy
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Absolutely. The only time I ever drove without chains, because I'd left my big "winter bag" (which included a shovel) in the apartment because of having to fit masses of ski boots and skis and all into the car, I couldn't get up the hill to the apartment, with two tired small girls I'd picked up from ski lessons. A car ahead of me had come to a complete halt on a steep hairpin bend and I dared not risk trying to pass him (I had four good snow tyres) and then bunging up the entire road, so I wedged my car behind, walked the little girls up to the apartment up a steep hill in the snow, made them hot chocolate and stuck a video on for them and said they must just sit there and do NOTHING, got the chains and carried them back down to the car, which by that time was surrounded by snow. Shovelled some snow out of the way, put the chains on, and got the car up the hill out of the way of the plough which I knew would be coming soon. I was utterly knackered and never went out without the chains again.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Digressing, out of interest, in Switzerland and Austria is there a nationwide switch to winter tyres every autumn? |
Yep. (People will nitpick about the exact wording which often refers to "wintry conditions" but...) effectively it's the law. Same in Germany, Luxembourg, Czechia, Slovakia and probably some other places that I haven't specifically driven to in mid-winter.
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I recall somebody who lives in Switzerland saying that strictly speaking there is no law making it illegal, from any particular date, to drive with "summer" tyres. But when there is any kind of accident in wintry conditions involving a car without winter tyres it is highly probably you will be found guilty of driving a vehicle which isn't "roadworthy", no matter how exemplary your driving.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Digressing, out of interest, in Switzerland and Austria is there a nationwide switch to winter tyres every autumn? |
Yep. |
i don't remember people in say, Geneva, using winter tires so it must be a regional thing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Changing over to winter tyres happens around now and the change back early April, There is no set date to change and you dont have to fit winter tyres but if you dont and have an accident in "winter conditions" you will be held responsible. In practice pretty much everyone has a set of winter tyres or fits all weather tyres such as Michelin Crossclimate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Digressing, out of interest, in Switzerland and Austria is there a nationwide switch to winter tyres every autumn? |
Yes in Austria, it's impossible to get an appointment in a garage at the end October unless you've booked well in advance. We changed ours over a week ago as I was too late to book an appointment so couldn't get anything until in to November or early.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
| Digressing, out of interest, in Switzerland and Austria is there a nationwide switch to winter tyres every autumn? |
I'd say yes - but on the basis of sensible driving i.e. the primary focus is "Do I need winter tyres on to get through a typical winter of driving?" rather than "What's the legal requirement?".
Yes, as mentioned, there's a consequential liability if you have an accident in terms of summer tyres representing 'unsuitable' equipment. But it seems to me that the default position of most Swiss drivers is to swap summers/winters as appropriate, unless they (a) can't afford to or (b) can use another vehicle to drive in winter conditions. This to the extent that I see quite a few Swiss cars with winter tyres on in the summer. So as you might expect in an Alpine region, it's not uncommon to run on winter tyres in summer - the converse of the British tendency to use summer tyres year-'round.
Having watched the topic being discussed for some years on this and other forums, a recurrent tendency is to talk at length about the legal requirements, ignoring the practical issues i.e. "Am I required to fit winter tyres by law in {country}?" rather than "What are the odds I'll need winter tyres in winter in {Alpine destination}?". And then to focus on a range of reasons why statistically, you'll get away with not having them fitted, as a justification.
Once upon a time, this was a fairly niche argument as most Brits couldn't justify to themselves the cost of a separate set of winter wheels and tyres, even if they drove to the Alps every winter. The exceptions were perhaps owners of high-performance cars where winters would still be useful back in a wet and cold UK. However, with the advent of all-season tyres designated as winters as well (with the 3-peaks-&-snowflake certification), this expanded to become more a discussion around whether switching to all-seasons had the benefit of giving you close-enough-to-winter tyre characteristics, such that they double as effective winter tyres as well.
What I see now is that the tendency for people who drive to the Alps every winter is to fit winter-certified all-seasons, replacing the summers that are fitted as standard to UK cars. Particularly if they drive an SUV or AWD vehicle. Indeed, these tyres arguably work better than a winter/summer setup in the transitional spring and autumn, when temperatures in the UK can be very variable. And that those who have separate winter and summer equipment is now back to that small subset of performance car owners where the performance gap between all-seasons and summers in summer/winters in winter is amplified and too big to be acceptable.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Mon 21-10-24 11:52; edited 6 times in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davidof wrote: |
| i don't remember people in say, Geneva, using winter tires so it must be a regional thing. |
Not sure about that. I certainly don't remember locals spinning their wheels on slush when I used to do airport transfers there. I think I'd point to the standard practice of Genevan hire cars having winter tyres as to what the "norm" is, even if some people don't fit them. I've always understood it to be due to insurance liability rather than mandatory law to fit winters but the end result is the same.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Thank for all the answers, an insight!
I had winter tyres for a years for our fwd VW Golf, I had a local fitter change them over each November. Giving safer driving in the UK too. They really came into their own driving on a couple of inches of snow in storms over the Col du Lautaret and in the Écrins National Park, we always made it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks everyone for the input . So I could buy chains from a supermarket around Lyon ? Are socks ok or does it need to be chains ? Any idea of cost ?
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| bigtoe wrote: |
| Thanks everyone for the input . So I could buy chains from a supermarket around Lyon ? Are socks ok or does it need to be chains ? Any idea of cost ? |
Either is fine, price will vary on tyre size but likely between €50 - €100
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@andmelffion, many thanks again 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Origen wrote: |
| I recall somebody who lives in Switzerland saying that strictly speaking there is no law making it illegal, from any particular date, to drive with "summer" tyres. But when there is any kind of accident in wintry conditions involving a car without winter tyres it is highly probably you will be found guilty of driving a vehicle which isn't "roadworthy", no matter how exemplary your driving. |
Correct. Its not mandatory but the majority of people do switch over.
Which reminds me, must book an appointment....
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