Be aware though, that there will be a significant amount of confirmation bias, in that most posts will be from people who think they're great and therefore keep using them and wanting to share their experiences = those who are not so keen on the idea tend not to continue posting in those threads. Read the earlier posts first, not just the more recent ones.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
so (and we sell carv) i think it has a couple of things about it
if you like data then great the data is good
if your boots are a properly fitted snug fit then it may not fit in there
here is my thought on the whole thing
70%+ of people are skiing around on that intermediate plateau in boots that are a size too big, by putting the carv into your boot it is a 3mm volume reducer in size, this makes your boot fit better in the first place so you ski better, so carv must improve your skiing right? you then follow the data in you now better fitting boot and you get a little better
i am sure lots will disagree but, get a better fitted boot and take a lesson, the outcome will be more effective long term
After all it is free
After all it is free
I saw a thing about black Friday deals yesterday, I skimmed it but it appeared that you buy the things and then have to subscribe to an app too? Also on one of the example videos there was a skier who looked like their upper body was all wrong, but they were forcing legs to "game" the Carv score. To me it seemed like they weren't in a stacked position.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@SnoodyMcFlude, interesting comment, so I too a look as well. I think you're right. Something not quite natural about them.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I have Carv and used it for the last two seasons.
The sale price is good for the kit but there is also the subscription required.
I'm not renewing my subscription this year as I will mainly be off piste or touring with guides / instructors.
Over two years it has improved my carving technique significantly. I liked the drills and focussing on particular elements such as edge angle and edge similarity (I'm still rubbish!).
When you have a day or two by yourself it is good, although does gets frustrating when your scores start to decline as the snow gets more cut up and of course as you get more tired (probably mainly the latter).
I've seen the marketing that they've improved the system to be better on variable terrain, but have no experience of this.
When skiing with family and friends I don't really use it and instead focus on just enjoying myself, or at least make sure I'm not plugged in and then look at the data afterwards. Always interesting to see how far and how fast you've travelled, but a smart watch can do the same.
No replacement for a good guide or instructor in my experience, but if money isn't too much of an issue and you'll be on piste with time by yourself, then it is a good system to improve your skiing. Personally I don't know if I'll renew the subscription, maybe if spending 2+ weeks on piste.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@SnoodyMcFlude, I bought mine before the switched to a subscription option - I think I paid about £300 and get all the subscription benefits included. I'd think (more than) twice about having to pay £150 every year.
You're right, some of the instructors do seem a bit off, position wise. The Tom Gellie ones are noticeably better.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
I saw a thing about black Friday deals yesterday, I skimmed it but it appeared that you buy the things and then have to subscribe to an app too? Also on one of the example videos there was a skier who looked like their upper body was all wrong, but they were forcing legs to "game" the Carv score. To me it seemed like they weren't in a stacked position.
Oh that is interesting. I guess it there's a lot that works on weight distribution, which may or may not take account of where your upper body is.
I took a lesson at Easter and was disappointed. He reminded me of a few things and then at the end said, "yeah, but you were pretty good anyway." A tad disappointing
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
SnoodyMcFlude wrote:
I saw a thing about black Friday deals yesterday, I skimmed it but it appeared that you buy the things and then have to subscribe to an app too? Also on one of the example videos there was a skier who looked like their upper body was all wrong, but they were forcing legs to "game" the Carv score. To me it seemed like they weren't in a stacked position.
Oh that is interesting. I guess it there's a lot that works on weight distribution, which may or may not take account of where your upper body is.
I took a lesson at Easter and was disappointed. He reminded me of a few things and then at the end said, "yeah, but you were pretty good anyway." A tad disappointing
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Tom Gellie? Is this a youtube video dude?
I feel like I have had so much instruction that I know WHAT to do but don't always do it. I used to get critiqued on video which was incredible but that was some time ago now!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
He reminded me of a few things and then at the end said, "yeah, but you were pretty good anyway
@helenmcp, clearly not a well enough qualified instructor!!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@under a new name, Definitely. He’s supposed to say “you would get more out of skiing and enjoy it much more if you improved x,y & z. Now how many more lessons shall I book you in for?”
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
I took a lesson at Easter and was disappointed. He reminded me of a few things and then at the end said, "yeah, but you were pretty good anyway." A tad disappointing
Realistically what do you expect though?
With one lesson an instructor isn't going to work miracles. Especially if your skiing is already at an ok level.
One of the better coaches I've met regularly turns people away after one lesson with something similar. Along the lines of "you ski 2 weeks a year, you have all the basics and can enjoy yourself in a safe manner (i.e. "pretty good". Lessons aren't really worth it as the amount of time/money you are going to have to invest to see significant improvement is too much, you'd be better off just enjoying your holidays."
Of course if you went to him saying your goal is to become an Olympian the answer would be different.
As for carv see the linked topic for a comprehensive discussion. I have no doubt it works for most people (even if only due to the fact it actively makes you concentrate more). The people that have it mostly seem positive about it. I personally think it has some rather big limitations - e.g. the point above about carv not knowing what your upper body is doing allowing you to game the system and "score" higher with potentially poor overall technique. That's not to say the tech can't have a use in an overall improvement plan.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:
Tom Gellie? Is this a youtube video dude?
He posts a few of his vids on YouTube but has a subscription website with all of them (and boy oh boy are there a lot of them ). He does real deep dive analysis of whatever subject he covering so can be a bit of information overload at times but personally his approach suits me well as he presents the info in a way that I learn best.
@snowheid, likewise, found him via Carv and relate well to his teaching methods, I used Carv for the first time last season and combined with Gellie's videos, definitely improved my piste skiing
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
KenX wrote:
... ikewise, found him via Carv and relate well to his teaching methods, I used Carv for the first time last season and combined with Gellie's videos, definitely improved my piste skiing ...
@phil_w, no, but that has no bearing on it whatsoever, I've always skied mostly off-piste and my piste technique was somewhat lacking, so welcomed a new approach to it, now I actually look forward to skiing on-piste when the pows not calling, whereas before it was a bit of a chore........
That said, I probably wouldn't have stumped up for full retail, but I'm glad to have the opportunity of testing/reviewing it!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Very interesting episode of the Ski Podcast with @iainm interviewing the founder of Carv, Jamie Grant.
Enjoyed the tech explanations but also some of the stats around who's using Carv and the very high numbers of people who, once they escape the learning area, just stop taking lessons.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Glad you enjoyed it. Yes, the stat was IIRC that only 8% of skiers take a lesson in any given year and half (?) of those are beginners
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@iainm, that is not a surprise.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I was given a Carv to test and I found it quite fun, and definitely very addictive. Once you get your Ski IQ, it's very hard not to want to improve it. At the time I felt I was just gaming it (i.e. doing what I needed to do to get a good score), but where Carv works is that without really noticing, you're becoming a 'better' skier. Caveat would be that sometimes you just want to let rip and not worry too much about your 'edge similarity' etc, but you can always turn it off!
It's an aid. There are things that it can do much better than an instructor: continual, instantaneous feedback for instance; and things that an instructor can do better e.g. fault diagnosis, application of technique to different scenarios, drinking coffee, and continually clipping and unclipping their boots.
I caught this video, How to Ski Black Runs, produced by Carv and was struck by how little Carv was actually used in the vid. Imv the point being that Carv was doing the mundane, "I've told you what you need to do, now you just need to practice until you can do it." which actually takes up most of the time, and the instructor was identifying the skills gap, suggesting the drills, and then showing how to apply what's been taught.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@helenmcp, I've got carv and subscribed for 2 years. On one trip in particular, I used it most days and found the data interesting and it made me focus on my skiing technique. And saw my scores increase. But it was a real faff - i was skiing with friends so didn't have the commentary on, just switched it on and then reviewed at the end of the day. On a few days I checked during the day and found it had switched itself off, and i didn't have the time to recalibrate it. Plus my focus was having fun, which was on a variety of slopes that weren't always conducive to training drills, or high scoring technique.
So I found myself not using it on subsequent holidays - I only go twice a year so just focus on having fun. And £150 per year is far too much money.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Handy Turnip, I agree, the subscription price is a bit salty
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
KenX wrote:
@Handy Turnip, I agree, the subscription price is a bit salty
Well if you’re getting lessons, it’s cheaper than a single morning private lesson. I’d love to try it out but unless it can tell me where the sharks are doubt it will be much use off piste
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
KenX wrote:
@Handy Turnip, I agree, the subscription price is a bit salty
I actually looked at the Black Friday deal for the kit and thought I could probably live with it to enliven some piste days but the sub seemed a bit OTT given my likely usage which might be only an hour or two on days when I chose to use it. It's definitely a barrier and £50 or less for purchasers of new hardware would be a better proposition.
I suspect the sub makes sense to the highly motivated already spending a lot on coaching or instruction or shooting for quals but to casual leisure skiers I question whether its better than finding an online guru and working through a few of their ideas consistently. Even then the value is in video or experienced eye feedback not numbers on an app.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Yes I was fortunate enough to get a freebie, but have to say it raised my very limited piste carving to a reasonable, advanced, dare I say it, level, and that was all down to Carve.
For sure if I'd had a week of one-on-one lessons with the likes of Darren Turner he may have got me there. However what if the weather was grim/viz limited then we could not have skied as needed, plus would have been way more expensive!
Once you sign up all the data under the bonnet as it were, videos, tips etc is brilliant and it gets you hooked.
I do agree, however, that it is a bit of a luxury item, if just on a one-week holiday.
Last season I was using it regularly when all we really had was piste skiing, however when touring conditions became better I didn't use it, proof will be in the pudding if I sign up again this season, and I did more sessions Cross Country than piste last season so I also have those logistics to contend with, and I know there's far more room for improvement in my XC skating technique than my piste skiing
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks for the feedback everyone
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I think Carv is excellent, information is power (distribution.) And fitting it to boots is simple, if part of the fitting process it's no issue. After it may cause imbalances, volume issues, but nothing a bootfitter can't easily adapt or fix post purchase.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
new version coming mid October that doesn't have the insole so no more boot fit compromises
Are the people that like it also the types of data junkie who spend time analysing Strava and talking about wattage or the like, or is it more accessible than that? If it's in your headphones then can you also have music playing? I tend to like some tunes in the background so that would be my priority, but I'm not sure I'd really pay much attention to an after ski debrief from the thing.
I also maintain that the best way to improve technique is to have someone video you and then show the video to Dave of The Marmottes, Adithorp and Pigeondave. When I returned from the bar I got such a ribbing about my flappy arms that I have spent considerable time trying to correct the issue and am now the best skier on the mountain.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@SnoodyMcFlude, IMO they are Practical over Atheistical. Both valuable.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@CEM, Hello Charles, I do hope you're well and feeling refreshed after your toe dipping in Sardinia. I would like, if possible to revisit our debate regards Ski Boot Flex, would that be of interest to you? I think the topic requires some "airing". XX
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@SnoodyMcFlude, for me, I find that it gives some focus, particularly when skiing alone. It also adds an element of competition which can be fun. I also find it pretty much coincides with my own view of my skiing on what needs improving.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@SnoodyMcFlude, devils advocate but, in your example, focusing on flappy arms might not be fixing an underlying issue with, say the weighting of the skis at the appropriate time.....and I don't think Carv measures arm flappiness
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
clearly not a well enough qualified instructor!!
). He does real deep dive analysis of whatever subject he covering so can be a bit of information overload at times but personally his approach suits me well as he presents the info in a way that I learn best.
