 Poster: A snowHead
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Starting the 2024/25 thread early as I wanted to answer a question on the 2023/24 thread that was more relevant to the upcoming year.
The most exciting news from the area is that the Lago Goillet lift (lift Z on the piste map) in the Cervinia area is being replaced this season. The area served by that chair is one of the few north facing areas on the Italian side – and the only high north facing one. As such it has some superb snow from very early to very late. And some great side piste areas. The massive downside was that the chair lift was sooooo slow. You could freeze to death on it – or at least pray that death would take you as a relief from the cold. They are putting in a new high speed six man chair lift. A real game changer. It is also a nice way to get over to Valtournenche from Cervinia. The usual way is to come down the Ventina (piste 7) from Testa Grigia with as much speed as you can to get across the flat 35,36 and then drop down on the 12. However, a nicer way to do it would be to come down the Ventina (7) a bit further and then turn left on 39 to the bottom of the new Lago Goillet chair, which takes you up to the top of the 12 to head over to Valtournenche.
Happy 2024/25 everyone.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Skeeezo wrote: |
Looking to take advice for a three day trip to Zermatt, skiing from 6th - 9th December this year.
My elsest son is turning 16 in this period and as a treat I was thinking of taking him away for a long weekend skiing at Zermatt. I have found a place to stay in Tasch and travel is sorted but I have a few questions before I confirm everything..
Is it easy to get to the lifts from the train station in Zermatt? We will be using the train each day to travel into Zermatt from Tasch.
Also, do we have a good chance of getting some skiing done during this period? I’m nervous to travel all that way if it’s potentially closed due to wind/lack of snow.
Not bothered about black runs or anything, just a nice getaway and some fun reds and blues. |
I am almost always out there in December and have never had a bad time. As well as the good early snow because of the height, there is extensive snowmaking which can start earlier because it will be cold. I will be out a few days after you this year (13 December).
At present we are summer skiing up on the high glacier at Klein Matterhorn. From some time in October we will start skiing the lower glacier from Furggsattel. The main opening is on 30 November (so well before you arrive). They always get a decent amount open so there should be plenty for you to do. The Swiss side consists of four areas (from North to South): Rothorn, Gornergrat, Schwarzsee and Klein Matterhorn). All lifts will be open with two exceptions: the Kumme lift on the north side of the Rothorn; and the Hirli lift, south of the main Schwarzsee lift). On the other lifts not all pistes will be open but there will be pistes running from each lift. The runs down into the village will probably not be open but you are not missing much – those runs are great for getting to après ski but are not great ski runs. You say you are not interested in blacks which is good as it is likely none of the black runs will be open. There will also probably not be much off piste worth doing. Zermatt is very rocky (being quite recently post-glacial) and needs a lot of snow for the off piste to be good. The off piste areas are great but I wouldn’t recommend seeing Zermatt as an off psite destination until February – March and April are by far the best.
Cervinia work much harder at getting stuff opening. They will get open whatever they can (including before the 30 November opening). If there has not been a lot of snow the runs might end at Plan Maison and Valtournenche might not be great.
As others have pointed out from Täsch (anglicised as Taesch and pronounced Tesh) you come into the main Zermatt station. On the east side of the station you have the Gornergrat station and the green E-bus stop that will take you to Sunnegga station and on to the Matterhorn Express station. Those are the only three ways up onto the ski areas. When you buy your ski pass make sure you buy one that includes the Täsch <-> Zermatt shuttle.
December can be windy. You would be unfortunate if that stopped much of your skiing on the Swiss side. It is more likely to close the Swiss-Italy link. You are probably better off buying a Swiss (with Täsch shuttle) pass rather than an international pass. You can upgrade for a day if conditions are good and you want to pop over to Italy. One of the downsides of Zermatt in December is that, being mainly north facing (which in skiing terms is otherwise good), it is cold and the days are short. It is worth popping over to Cervinia for a day where it is mainly south facing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks @JohnMo there’s so much helpful information there.
I’m convinced it’s the right place for us. My plan is to arrive late Thursday and providing the weather is compliant, Ski Friday to Sunday. Our first early season trip. Can’t wait!
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We're coming out to Cervinia for Christmas. We're first-timers to Cervinina.
We are staying in an apartment booked through Vrbo. The address given on Vrbo is Via Piolet, Breuil-Cervinia, Valle d'Aosta, 11028 Italy.
Is anyone knowledgeable about that area, please? Proximity to lifts, shops, restaurants etc?
We like a nice cruisey blue, and fun reds. Eldest likes a black and some options to go off piste, but not essential. Husband is a nervous skier so likes a blue, but is open to trying some gentle reds. We've mainly skied in Les Arcs and Austria.
Thanks
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks. We'll have a hire car, too.
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| Owlette wrote: |
We're coming out to Cervinia for Christmas. We're first-timers to Cervinina.
We are staying in an apartment booked through Vrbo. The address given on Vrbo is Via Piolet, Breuil-Cervinia, Valle d'Aosta, 11028 Italy.
Is anyone knowledgeable about that area, please? Proximity to lifts, shops, restaurants etc?
We like a nice cruisey blue, and fun reds. Eldest likes a black and some options to go off piste, but not essential. Husband is a nervous skier so likes a blue, but is open to trying some gentle reds. We've mainly skied in Les Arcs and Austria.
Thanks |
Via Piolet is not very specific. I assume they will give you more details nearer the time. Via Piolet is a road that runs through town. If you are at the north end you will be nearer more shops and restaurants and closer to the best lift for you. If you are at the south end you will be further away from stuff but not disastrously so. You will be near to another lift but probably not one you will want to use – except your eldest.
There are three lifts up (ignoring a small learner lift) from Breuil-Cervinia to the ski areas (I have not covered Valtournenche, a connected area you can access higher up). I will describe them from south to north (right to left as you look at piste map):
1. Cielo Alto lift. This will be your closest one if you are at the south end of Via Piolet. It is a really old chair lift and soooo slow. It is a lovely area (quite a lot of it in the trees – very unusual for Cervinia) and is great to ski if the snow is good. It is north facing so will be cold. The problem is that the pistes coming off the top of the lift are blacks so probably only suitable for your eldest. If he skis it, tell him to stay to skiers’ right and he can get across to piste 7 and join you at the bottom of the Plan Maison gondola.
2. Plan Maison gondola. The middle lift. This will be the closest one if you are at the north end of Via Piolet. It will almost certainly be the one you want to use. It is not a huge distance but it could be a bit of a hike in ski boots and carrying skis if you are at the south end of Via Piolet. This takes you up to Plan Maison. From there there are three consecutive chairlifts that take you up to the ridge on the Swiss border (Theodulpass). The first lift give you access to nice blues and easy reds. The second chairlift takes you up to some fairly easy reds – but stay to the ones on skiers’ right (the ones on the left are trickier – I once had to walk half way back up them carring my daughter in laws and my skis after she decided those pistes were too difficult for her!). The third chairlift takes you up to some fun reds that your eldest will love but your husband should stay away from.
You will probably find yourself skiing back down to Breuil Cervinia from Plan Maison as the blues are nice and the reds are not a problem. The irritating thing with this is that you can’t get directly back up to Plan Maison. You end up at the Cretaz chairlift. See below.
3. Cretaz chairlift. This takes you up to Plan Torrette. You can see Plan Maison higher up but it would be some hike to get there, particularly carrying skis. You can of course ski back down to Breuil Cervinia if you want to enjoy those pistes again. If you want to get back to Plan Maison you need to ski down to the nearby Pancheron lift. From the top of there your eldest will love the blacks and reds down to return to the bottom of that lift – there is also usually some nice side piste action to be had. From the top of the lift your husband should stick to skiers left. He can follow blues all the way back to Plan Maison.
The Cervinia area I have not yet covered is one I am a bit nervous about your husband taking. But it is the only area from which you can get back to the bottom of the Plan Maison gondola and so be closer to your accommodation. From Plan Maison do not use the chairlifts but go back into the main building. Inside there take the gondolas that go over to Cime Bianche Laghi. From there your husband should go no higher. Your eldest can take the large gondola up to the other section of Swiss border, Testa Grigia. The Ventina (7) down from there is the jewel in the crown of the ski area (best done non-stop in a lung busting drive all the way down to town). Your eldest will also like the (new) chairlift in that area that takes you up to Colle Superiore delle Cime Bianche. The pistes (and side piste) under there are great.
The tricky bit is your husband skiing all the way down from Cime Bianche Liage back to the bottom of the Plan Maison gondola. It is red all the way. It is a proper red but not extremely difficult (unlike the top section just discussed). I would hope if he takes it easy and has a few stops he would be OK. As I say, it is a much better way for you to return home given where you are based.
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Great info @JohnMo, indeed an early start. We are as usual not out till early Feb, but will start to watch all threads from now on. It’s been relatively cold and rainy all summer in Liverpool. Hope it’s relatively the same in Zermatt this winter!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks JohnMo, that is absolutely brilliant! I'll do some blacks, too so the eldest won't be alone. I'll be printing this page! Thank you.
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There is 50mm of precipitation due tomorrow. That would have me really excited in winter as it would equate to about 50cm of snow! As it happens all it means is we’ll get no walking done. It could be good for the summer ski area though as it is cold up there at present and, despite coming during the day, that might well be snow. It is a bit early for the lower glacier and will probably be rain there – but we are still five weeks away from the earliest possible opening date for skiing there.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Exciting to see the 2024/25 thead up and running.
Onwards and upwards for a cracking season everyone.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Looks like I was wrong (in a good way). The precipitation fell as snow on the lower glacier as well. Here is the Furggsattel lift (which should open some time in October. Yesterday the glacier was looking the dirty blue grey it usually is in September. Today it is looking nice and white. The snow on the rocks will melt but that on the glacier should help the steady build up to next month.
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Looking good up there. That said, always a tad sobering to see how much the glacier has dipped over the last 20 years...
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You know it makes sense.
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Golf will be teeing off early in the European masters in Crans Montana tomorrow due to precipitation due around 3pm. Just over the valley.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Some nice low temperatures in the forecasts. But could do with some more precipitation to go with them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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And so it begins. Up on the top left is the summer skiiing glacier. Lower down at the top right is the glacier used for Autumn skiing (now starting to build up a base of snow). That glacier doesn’t extend all the way down to the lift station at Trockener Steg so when they get confident it is cold and likely to stay cold they start building a track of artificial snow connecting the lip of the glacier to the lift station. That is what you can see starting in the lower centre left.
We are still several weeks from even the earliest opening of the Autumn skiing area. But I always think of the start of the building of that track as the earliest sign of the ski season.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@JohnMo, great visual! Always enjoy reading your updates, hope you have a good season.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Look, I know 6 days out is too far to get really excited. But September is the month of premature excitement.
Looks like there could be something bubbling up for early next week. Temperatures will mean precipitation will be snow to a reasonable level in the ski area.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hi all,
We are a group of three planning a Zermatt trip for early March. We have an Airbnb booked in Zermatt for the week.
Flying from Canada has challenges on the return journey. As far as I can see the trains back to Zurich or Geneva begin at 5.30 am or so. I think that would put us at either airport for 9.30 at best. All of the best (cheaper) departing flights from these airports leave too soon for us to catch them.
I have also looked at Lyon. The flights are half of what we would pay for workable return options from Geneva or Zurich. Of course the transfer is longer and would likely require renting a car.
Zermatt/Cervinia has been on my list for years and I am very excited to finally get there this year. Any suggestions are most welcome.
Thanks,
MoM
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Do the math. You can always take the last evening train and arrive at Zurich Airport train station.
There is a very decent Ibis Budget hotel 2 tram stations from the airport.
There's a tram coming every 10 minutes. Price for a double room for one night used to be around 100, tram ticket each way was about 5 CHF.
If you fly to Lyon instead and save money on the flight, will the rental car cost (including snow chains, park8ng fees, leaving Fr for CH and highway sticker) make it worthwhile?
What about the return flight schedule from Lyon, do you need to book a night in the area as well?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I would stick to Geneva or Zurich. The airport hotels are fairly cheap and would avoid the faff of renting a car to get back to Lyon which will be an expensive transfer.
Plus…you can wrangle and extra half day of skiing before getting back to Zurich or Geneva for the hotel night before early next day flight. Win / win.
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@MOM, Lyon adds 2-3 hours to your transfer. Life is too short.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @MOM, Lyon adds 2-3 hours to your transfer. Life is too short. |
Amen.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tomorrow’s precipitation coming up from the south so the Cervinia side will get the best of it. But the area just over the border should see a decent fall. That is important as that is where the lower glacier is. That area will get opened up for skiing some time in October. This week’s snow might help that to be earlier in the month rather than later.
The precipitation hits mainly in the late afternoon which is a pity. The snow limit is expected to be 2,700 falling to 2,300 as evening closes in. The lowest point of the autumn ski area is Trockener Steg and that is at 3,000m. So should all be good stuff there.
The Italians are more adventurous in getting stuff opened before the main opening date at the end of November. They can look at the border at Testa Grigia (3,500m) down to Cime Laghi Bianca (2,800m). So that should all be snow. They can also look at Theodulpass (3,300m) down to Plan Maison (2,500m). Plan Maison will be almost all rain. However the higher parts of that section will be snow which all contributes to getting stuff opened in November.
The next lot of precipitation is coming through on Thursday. There looks to be twice as much as tomorrow’s with a similar snowline. Four days out of course still has a reasonable level of uncertainty.
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| MOM wrote: |
Hi all,
We are a group of three planning a Zermatt trip for early March. We have an Airbnb booked in Zermatt for the week.
Flying from Canada has challenges on the return journey. As far as I can see the trains back to Zurich or Geneva begin at 5.30 am or so. I think that would put us at either airport for 9.30 at best. All of the best (cheaper) departing flights from these airports leave too soon for us to catch them.
I have also looked at Lyon. The flights are half of what we would pay for workable return options from Geneva or Zurich. Of course the transfer is longer and would likely require renting a car.
Zermatt/Cervinia has been on my list for years and I am very excited to finally get there this year. Any suggestions are most welcome.
Thanks,
MoM |
I agree with what others have said about Lyon compared to a cheap airport hotel
Have you looked at Milan? It has good flights to North America and they are often cheaper than the Swiss flights. The train from Zermatt to Milan Central is about three and a half hours (not as frequent a service as the Swiss airports but not bad). You then have to get from Milan Central to Milan Malpensa airport for which you need to add on another hour (journey is 50 minutes).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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book into a cheap airport hotel the night before, the best option. still ski till 3pm, train, in hotel by 9pm. quick bite locally
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 23-09-24 15:05; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is there skiing open at Zermatt at the moment?
When I looked at the Zermatt website earlier this afternoon, it showed all ski lifts as closed... 
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Looking to book Christmas week in Cervinia but probably left it too late and struggling to find reasonable prices for accommodation- ideally want 2 apartments for 2 families of 4 . Any pointers much appreciated!
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You know it makes sense.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
Is there skiing open at Zermatt at the moment?
When I looked at the Zermatt website earlier this afternoon, it showed all ski lifts as closed... |
Yes. The summer skiing continues. What time did you look? The lifts on the top glacier close at 2 (so 1 UK time) at this time of year. However, there was a pretty big storm coming through today so I wouldn’t be surprised if they hadn’t opened at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hmm, I was hoping for a bit more snow at Trockener Steg. But every little helps. Good news is the snow, while only a dusting, did get down as far as Plan Maison.
Next lot of precipitation comes through on Thursday. It looks like a lot of it. However, we need it to come as late as possible. The snowline during the day is up at 3400m. That is the height of the top of the glacier chair lift at Furggsattel (the one due to open some time in October)! During the evening the snowline falls to 2600m. That is the height of Plan Maison on the Italian side. This precipitation seems more to be coming from the west so might favour the Swiss side rather than the Italian side.
Temperatures drop dramatically from Friday with the snowline getting down to 1400m at times (ie well below Zermatt town). There is precipitation bubbling through on both days but nothing like as much as Thursday.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yesterday was another damp squib. Very little of the precipitation was snow below about 3000m. Ah well, it was good for the glaciers. Not a lot to get excited about in the near term (although good low temperatures are useful for the ground and for the snowmaking). As always, we live in hope.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| JohnMo wrote: |
The most exciting news from the area is that the Lago Goillet lift (lift Z on the piste map) in the Cervinia area is being replaced this season. The area served by that chair is one of the few north facing areas on the Italian side – and the only high north facing one. As such it has some superb snow from very early to very late. And some great side piste areas. The massive downside was that the chair lift was sooooo slow. You could freeze to death on it – or at least pray that death would take you as a relief from the cold. |
That's great news. I made the mistake of going on that lift once, and only once......
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Whitters wrote: |
| JohnMo wrote: |
The most exciting news from the area is that the Lago Goillet lift (lift Z on the piste map) in the Cervinia area is being replaced this season. The area served by that chair is one of the few north facing areas on the Italian side – and the only high north facing one. As such it has some superb snow from very early to very late. And some great side piste areas. The massive downside was that the chair lift was sooooo slow. You could freeze to death on it – or at least pray that death would take you as a relief from the cold. |
That's great news. I made the mistake of going on that lift once, and only once...... |
Yep. In previous years I would go up in March but wouldn’t dream of it earlier. This is a game changer. There is some lovely skiing to be had round there - some seriously deep side piste that stays relatively little tracked for longer (probably will change!). I am really looking forward to it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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This week showing some signs of hope. Certainly more than was being suggested just a couple of days ago. The snow level is an encouraging 2500m or so.
This coming weekend is the “earliest possible date” for opening the Furggsattel lift on the lower glacier. I can’t imagine that it will be opening then but the snow on the glacier is looking good and the track from the end of the glacier to the lift station is complete.
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Trip planned 1st week in December to Cervinia for a big birthday. There will be a couple of non-skiers so what I’m hoping to do is get a guide for the skiers and a guide for the walkers so hopefully they will be kept entertained and be brought to us for lunches.
Anyone got any suggestions for (linked?) skiing and walking guides?
Thanks
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@Doccam, My wife and I do a lot of winter walking (she doesn’t ski). However, we do it all on the Swiss side (where we are based). With the new Alpine crossing lift we could go over and walk on the Italian side. But it is just so ludicrously expensive to get her a ticket (I have an annual international pass and she has a Swiss half fare card but even so). One day I am sure I will bite the bullet.
I have never thought about it but I don’t think I have seen people winter hiking on the Italian side (with the exception of a couple of snowshoe trails). Nor have I seen an Italian side winter hiking map (there is a summer one and one for the snowshoe trails) Hopefully someone will come on and tell me of course there are lots of Cervinia winter walking trails.
Do your non-skiers do snowshoe walking? As well as the marked trails if you have a guide you can go “off piste/trail” snowshoe walking. If they have not done it before I would strongly recommend. It is easy enough to hire snowshoes in town (assuming they don’t have them already).
Anyway to answer your question you are probably best off contacting the official guide company:
https://www.guidedelcervino.com/en/
info@guidedelcervino.com
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@JohnMo thanks for the links. There’s a decent spa at the hotel to keep them occupied but it’s more to meet up for lunch than anything.
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This agreement was made a couple of years ago (and was discussed on here) but it is being reported in some parts of the press again now as the Swiss government has approved it. It will probably be reported again next year when the Italian government approves it.
Most people think of borders as being lines on a map. This forum is one of the places where a lot of people are likely to know that many Alpine borders are defined as the watershed rather than a fixed line.
Often the watershed is (or was) on a glacier. The glacier tends to be thicker on the north facing slope. So the watershed tends to be further north than it would be if there was no glacier and the watershed was determined by the underlying rock.
As everyone knows the glaciers are melting. When that happens the underlying rock is exposed and the watershed is further south than it previously was. In Zermatt-Cervinia this means Switzerland has been expanding into Italy. The place this has had the most practical impact is at Testa Grigia. There there is the restaurant (and lodge) Rifugio del Cervinia. As the name suggests this is (was) in Italy. But only just. It was just south of the watershed when the glacier immediately south of it was rather thicker than it is now. You can actually see the rock it is sitting on is now exposed and even to the untrained eye you can see water would flow north from it (as opposed to south in earlier years). Technically that means it is now in Switzerland and all of Swiss laws apply to it. Sensible the two governments agreed to ignore that.
I am assuming this agreement when (if) it is published will revert to the more common position of having the border defined by a line on the map where there would be some legal consequences (as with this restaurant).
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgk7r0rrdnmo.amp
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FAQ
for a day ticket seems a rather dear do for a 2pm finish - unless the lifts open very early 