 Poster: A snowHead
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I am driving Jeep Renegade from Milan to Kitzbuhl. I have snow chains but not snow tires. Somebody in the forum said its illegal and snow tires are mandatory. The car weight i am assuming to be under 2tonnes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Winter tyres are mandatory from 1. Nov until 15. Apr in Winter conditions. On some roads depending on weather conditions snow chains can also be mandatory.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Should i assume, that the car i renting without snow tires and ONLY with snow jain won't be allowed in Austria?
i just found out,
Caution
The requirement to fit winter tyres only applies to cars and lorries weighing up to 3.5 t in wintry conditions, and they must only be fitted when the vehicle is actually being driven.
The requirement to fit winter tyres to cars has recently been extended to cover small, four-wheeled vehicles built using an enclosed closed, cabin-like design (also known as microcars).
https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/en/themen/mobilitaet/kfz/10/2/Seite.063100.html
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@ankitind, to say that snow chains are illegal is incorrect. I think the information you are looking for is: winter tyres are mandatory in Austria and some other Alpine countries in winter. You should also be carrying snow chains. If you rent a car from one of these countries in winter, it will come fitted with winter tyres. If you rent elsewhere, it may not, or you may have to pay extra. Here are the regulations. For driving in the Alps in winter, assume you will be driving in winter conditions.
[edited for clarification]
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Thu 10-10-24 10:35; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As long as there is no snow/ice you will be fine 
Get stuck or have an accident and you could be in serious stuke.
The real benefit of winter tyres is helping you control things going down hill. The chains will get you up.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 10-10-24 11:17; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Maybe choose a more practical, mainstream car? The roads between Milan and Kitzbühl are fine. You'll have more choice then probably. You must have both, tires and chains....
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| ankitind wrote: |
Should i assume, that the car i renting without snow tires and ONLY with snow jain won't be allowed in Austria?
i just found out,
Caution
The requirement to fit winter tyres only applies to cars and lorries weighing up to 3.5 t in wintry conditions, and they must only be fitted when the vehicle is actually being driven.
The requirement to fit winter tyres to cars has recently been extended to cover small, four-wheeled vehicles built using an enclosed closed, cabin-like design (also known as microcars).
https://www.oesterreich.gv.at/en/themen/mobilitaet/kfz/10/2/Seite.063100.html |
The rules are basically that if conditions are wintery, legally you must have winter tyres (not the same thing as snow tyres) on. Just carrying chains is not enough. Chains may or may not be necessary, very occasionally mandatory, *on top* of winter tyres - but in the 10 years I've owned 4x4 cars here (with winter tyres obv) I've never needed chains (touch wood etc).
I'm not sure if there's an actual legal definition of 'winter conditions' but I assume temperature below 10°C or so would count. If you have an incident in those conditions without winter tyres your insurance would not pay out and you would be in a world of legal and financial hurt, plus whatever physical hurt you may incur (or cause to others).
BTW chains can only be used if there is a continuous layer of snow or ice - you cannot use them for example if there's just slush or piles of snow and you are frequently going through to the tarmac below.
Short answer: you will need to hire a car with winter tyres on or find other transport (theoretically you could take the train then hire a car in Austria, which will definitely have winter tyres on).
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@ankitind When you say you have chains, do you mean that the rental company is providing ones?
I ask because many SUVs have stupid fat low-profile wheels and tyres that can't take chains. Yes, that tyre size can take chains but on the corresponding wheel on a particular model of vehicle, there's not enough space behind for the chains to rotate safely. Every SUV I've rented in the US and Europe was in this category - they had winter tyres on but chains couldn't be fitted. I could have bought chains to fit the tyres, but odds are they might well have caused damage if I actually put them on. You'll often find that rental desk reps try and fob people off with statements like "You won't need chains with winter tyres/4-wheel-drive" (untrue) or just "It can't take chains." (true, but misleading) rather than see you opt for a cheaper, mainstream vehicle that can.
This often means that if you want chains, then you'd be better off renting a more conventional vehicle, like an estate. Because the odds are higher that it'll have wheels which can take chains.
However, even this doesn't guarantee chains can be fitted. If it's a performance model or an AWD they might still have low-profile wheels and tyres on that again, can't take chains. My BMW convertible is in this category: it's ex-factory wheels can't take chains as it has low-profiles on, so I've had to buy a separate set of smaller winter wheels and tyres which can, for my ski trips.
So this is why when I rent, I just go for a low-end hatchback or estate, non-performance, non-AWD model, so that I get both winter tyres and snow chains. Or at least the odds are high.
And bear in mind snow chains may be needed for something other than 'Snowmaggedon' conditions - the last two times I've had to use them has been in bright sunlit conditions, where freeze-thaw had turned the road up out of the apartment car parking into a sheet of ice. As soon as I got onto the main road out of the village I took them off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm not convinced he's renting. How does he know he will get that exact model? why does he already have chains for the Jeep?
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@ankitind, there are endless threads on this topic. Winter tyres are not just mandatory in Austria but in Italy too (there are signs all along the A22 from Verona stating this). Chains are generally a red herring, there are very few situations when they are needed or even allowed. Unless you are thinking of taking some back country route they will be of no use between Milan and Kitzbühel. Assuming you go the most obvious route over the Brenner it is motorway almost all the way (on the last stretch of single carriageway road there is a short steepish section between Hopfgarten & Brixen, only time in the past 20 odd years when I can remember an issue was during the 2019 Snowmaggedon episode). If avoiding the Brenner due to the roadworks and going via Pustertal, Lienz, Felbertauern and Pass Thurn then Pass Thurn might just be an issue in exceptional conditions (there are regular buses going through) but very unlikely a 4x4 and winter tyres will not be sufficient.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I am renting from discovercars at Milan Airport. They are charging 20Euros for snow chain.
My plan was to take Tirol Snowcard and stay at apartments in villages of Kaunertal, Zillertal, Stumm, Fliess in Austria and than come back to Milan to return the car after 4 weeks.
But now I am bit scared after reading all these threads. 4x4 car with snow types is 2.5x more expensive.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Milan+Malpensa+Airport+(MXP),+21010+Ferno+VA,+Italy/Kaunertal,+Austria/Zillertal,+Austria/Stumm,+Austria/Flie%C3%9F,+Austria/Milan+Malpensa+Airport,+21010+Ferno+VA,+Italy/@46.4835951,8.9806881,8z/data=!4m38!4m37!1m5!1m1!1s0x478661757c84a7b7:0xa3f10a57a0c77efe!2m2!1d8.7259911!2d45.6284772!1m5!1m1!1s0x479cd546de988055:0xd91a230c688b9f1!2m2!1d10.7479919!2d47.033352!1m5!1m1!1s0x4777dae07db52371:0x716abdf9e497bc1!2m2!1d11.88963!2d47.26581!1m5!1m1!1s0x4777da84c601398f:0x40097572de69870!2m2!1d11.8869955!2d47.29148!1m5!1m1!1s0x479cc551fa90ffb3:0xa91f8ce0c1b94202!2m2!1d10.6279704!2d47.1204938!1m5!1m1!1s0x478661757c84a7b7:0xa3f10a57a0c77efe!2m2!1d8.7259911!2d45.6284772!3e0?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTAwNy4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@ankitind, just get a regular car with winter tyres, or just use public transport?
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@ankitind, why do you want a 4x4 instead of a regular car?
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You know it makes sense.
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winter tyres are only available in 4x4. Not able to get winter tires on normal cars.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ankitind wrote: |
| winter tyres are only available in 4x4. Not able to get winter tires on normal cars. |
Not true. Maybe in Milan...
Still not necessary to rent a Jeep though. Very unpractical also; parking lots tend to be narrow 
And you might definitely need the chains around Fliess (Arlberg)
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 10-10-24 13:12; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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I need an Automatic transmission and Non-Electric - and Jeep Renegade was the cheapest at discovercars.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| ankitind wrote: |
| I need an Automatic transmission and Non-Electric - and Jeep Renegade was the cheapest at discovercars. |
Logically in Milan: A Jeep around e.g. Lake Como would be a disaster. There are streets so narrow, even an normal stationwagon can hardly pass.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I am just coming for Ski holiday. Milan flights were the cheapest - my only intention is to ski with my 10yr old for 4 weeks
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| ankitind wrote: |
| winter tyres are only available in 4x4. Not able to get winter tires on normal cars. |
You said that you have chains but not winter tyres - why not just book the winter tyres?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ankitind, a Jeep 4x4 is perfect if that is what you get, you wont find any issues at all. It is not worth worrying about. There have been issues in the past where hire cars have not been supplied with winter tyres (most places in Italy dont need them) and that has caused grief. However if your car has them that's fine, dont worry about the chains thing, brits / some snowheads seem obsessed with them. If there is so much snow cars need chains on main roads you wont be going anywhere as it will be a once in fifty years storm and everything will grind to a halt.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ankitind, Milan Airport for Austria is really very far (6 hours in good weather) , and unpractical as you can see.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| ankitind wrote: |
| winter tyres are only available in 4x4. Not able to get winter tires on normal cars. |
Not true. Maybe in Milan...
Still not necessary to rent a Jeep though. Very unpractical also; parking lots tend to be narrow
And you might definitely need the chains around Fliess (Arlberg) |
The Renegade is a mini-SUV from Jeep. Not what you thinking of. Perfectly fine and reasonable as a rental.
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Fly to München, rent a car with Winter tyres. The higher cost of rental car will be offset by less fuel costs and driving time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| @ankitind, Milan Airport for Austria is really very far (6 hours in good weather) , and unpractical as you can see. |
From a Dutch perspective maybe but I get the impression the OP is flying from America(?), so perspective on distance may be different.
Obviously still not the most ideal airport, but totally doable.
Sounds like a great trip with your kid @ankitind! You definitely should try to work out the winter tyres, but as above 4x4 with winter tyres is very likely to be fine. Worst case you could get a train from Milan to somewhere in Sud Tirol (northern Italy; used to belong to Austria and still part of Tirol) like Bozen and hire a car from there which should then come with winter tyres as standard.
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@clarky999
I got winter tires using Noleggiare car rental. They are charging around 200Euros for 28 days rental period. Now Finally I have a car (Mitsubishi ASX Automatic) with snowchains and winter tires. I had to call multiple rental companies - all refused except Noleggiare. I have to write to them 15 days prior to arrange for snowtires.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@clarky999, I would turn that around: If coming from the US (or similar far away), the 6 hours Milan-Innsbruck are even worse. Especially when it might be Munich-Tirol instead.
And since the OP is traveling 4 weeks, I would seriously consider the extra expenses for Munich, and have much more choice in rental cars on top of that....
I also think the 'wintertyres should be fine' approach is silly. Very silly.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@clarky999, I would turn that around: If coming from the US (or similar far away), the 6 hours Milan-Innsbruck are even worse. Especially when it might be Munich-Tirol instead.
And since the OP is traveling 4 weeks, I would seriously consider the extra expenses for Munich, and have much more choice in rental cars on top of that.... |
If it was me I would book Munich or Zurich too. But in the States people seem to think nothing of driving 8 hours each way for a DAY of skiing *shrug*
| Langerzug wrote: |
I also think the 'wintertyres should be fine' approach is silly. Very silly. |
With your experience from the mighty peaks of the Netherlands I genuinely find it rather reassuring that you will/would be equipped with winter tyres, chains and 4x4 when driving here 
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@clarky999, No need to refer to the Low Countries. Instead try to think that it makes a huge difference whether you are on your one week (or 4-week) holiday, and bound to drive on days on which snow chains might be obligatory, or living in Innsbruck, and completely able to choose your days you go skiing (and don't drive on those chain days simply because you'll wait until the sun is back).
It's quite simple: those chains-obligatory days do still exist, even for 4x4+wintertyres.
Or are you really promoting an American, that has landed in Milan, to drive in a snowstorm without chains over Brennerpass, Arlbergpass etc, whilst the signs "chains obligatory for all vehicles" ar on?
Hence: Silly
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You know it makes sense.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@clarky999, Brennerpass, Arlbergpass etc, whilst the signs "chains obligatory for all vehicles"
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Whilst there are occasions when chains are indeed needed for the Arlberg or Flexen passes (though generally not for 4x4 vehicles under 3.5t) there are no such signs for the Brenner autobahn / autostrada. The question is in regard to a trip to Kitzbühel not Lech. Having lived in southern Bavaria for nearly 25 years and spent the winters driving around the mountains in all sorts of weathers I have never owned a set of snow chains nor ever had occasion to require them. Promoting scare stories as an answer to a perfectly reasonable question is not helpful! The person asking the question will be perfectly well equipped for a winter holiday with a 4x4 vehicle with winter tyres the same as thousands of folk who actually live in the mountains.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| munich_irish wrote: |
| Langerzug wrote: |
@clarky999, Brennerpass, Arlbergpass etc, whilst the signs "chains obligatory for all vehicles"
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Whilst there are occasions when chains are indeed needed for the Arlberg or Flexen passes (though generally not for 4x4 vehicles under 3.5t) there are no such signs for the Brenner autobahn / autostrada. The question is in regard to a trip to Kitzbühel not Lech. Having lived in southern Bavaria for nearly 25 years and spent the winters driving around the mountains in all sorts of weathers I have never owned a set of snow chains nor ever had occasion to require them. Promoting scare stories as an answer to a perfectly reasonable question is not helpful! The person asking the question will be perfectly well equipped for a winter holiday with a 4x4 vehicle with winter tyres the same as thousands of folk who actually live in the mountains. |
This.
I spent several years "having" to drive over the Arlberg Pass and back every weekend regardless of weather, and did so a number times in weather as severe as it will get before the road is closed. Plus many times driving there specifically because it was snowing so much, as well as to non-resort touring areas without much in the way of road-clearing.
10 years owning a 4x4 with winter tyres here and I've never once needed chains... And with 2 wheel drive the years before only needed them once. Obviously that doesn't mean it can't/won't happen but it is a fact that it's rare to need chains with winter tyres and 4x4.
I will also say from much experience trying to get to ski resorts while it's still snowing (I prefer storm days to bluebird powder days due to avalanche danger and the stress of what other people are doing), that the vast vast majority of the Schneechaos on the roads is from people without winter tyres getting stuck and blocking roads while trying to put chains on too late. Winter tyres > chains 99.99% of the time IME, even without 4x4.
And the drive to Kitzbühel is nothing like the Arlberg Pass!
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Fri 11-10-24 0:04; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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The last time I had to fit chains was 30 years ago in a car park in Argentiere. I wouldn't have got out of the car park without them, and had removed them 200 m down the road.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We had to use chains last year just to get to our house, 50m's up from the valley floor in Zillertal. That's mainly down to the Ford Transit Custom being pretty rubbish at going up hills in the snow.
Also needed them to get up to the Möslbahn at 1350m. I reckon we used them 5 times in total last season though.
Sounds like we need to buy ourselves a little 4x4!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@swskier, if you needed chains 5 times in a relatively low snow winter it might be really worth considering!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The problem with rental agencies is that what is advertised online can turn out different when you actually get to the desk. Every time I've rented an SUV that's 'winterized' with winter tyres, it's been advertised (or implied) as chains being an option. Then when I've got tot he rental desk I've been told "Ah, no, it can't take chains." or "Don't worry, you won't need chains." Thus transferring the risk on to me that I may need them after all and am stuck. So as I said, this is why I always go for a smaller hatchback or if I need the space, an estate.
The primary requirement is for winter tyres. Yes, the odds that you'll also need chains are very low. But if you need them, you need them. For me, the probability I'll need them has turned out to be about 1 in 10 trips. For other people, it's lower/higher and very dependent on circumstances.
If you're flying into an airport that's relatively remote from ski areas then there's often a challenge in getting rental cars with winter tyres and chains, and the odds are higher that a rental desk clerk will try and persuade you to take a vehicle that lacks one or both. But if the flights are already booked etc. then that's just something the OP has to deal with. The necessity to have winter tyres and the probability of also needing chains isn't affected by this - it remains the same. To my mind, if I'm going on a ski holiday then my expectation/hope is to be in snowy conditions and all other things being equal, I want to have winter tyres on and a set of chains in the boot, and then I can relax knowing I'm fully equipped as far as I can be.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The OP has booked the equivalent of a Renault Captur with winter tyres, it won't be a big 4x4.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| @swskier, if you needed chains 5 times in a relatively low snow winter it might be really worth considering! |
or, go skiing wherever @swskier is
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Winter tyres are not just mandatory in Austria but in Italy too
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Often stated, and often wrong and highly misleading in this context. Winter tyres are NOT MANDATORY IN ITALY. The signs over the motorway, e.g. driving north into the mountains from Turin, stipulate winter tyres OR chains. Though as correctly stated above, chains can sometimes be needed in addition to winter tyres, though very rarely on a 4WD vehicle.
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@munich_irish,
Did I read that right, you've never had to use chains?
Maybe its global warming or the tyres have got a lot better?
I've had to get them on many times, nearly always in the dark on new snow fall.
I got badly caught out with Summer Tyres the last time I could not get over a tiny bridge in a village just west of Leogang. We had to stop the night in a hotel, then pay though the nose for a set of chains that you have to fit with the wheels off the ground.
Does anyone want a pair of chains for a BMW 7 series they have only done 5km?
This was at Easter!
I've not driven to the Alps in winter since 1996, but I'm just about do it again.
I'm planning to drive to Alleghe for the PreBirthday Bash 
My car is shod with just All Weather tyres, so I've taken a punt on a set of second hand full fat snow tyres. I'll get them fitted after Christmas.
Its an all wheel drive SUV, I've got a pair of Snow Socks that I'll have to practice getting on ... just in case.
I don't know how the socks are going to work out, just the back wheels.
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FAQ
