 Poster: A snowHead
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Head of Ski Scotland and owner of Glencoe, Andy Meldrum, attacks HIEs squandering of funds on the ‘unfixable’ CairnGorm funicular in this weeks Strathy:
https://www.strathspey-herald.co.uk/news/warning-over-cairngorm-funicular-costs-345201/
With £26.5m spent on repairs to get 7 months of service followed by 8 months of closure so far, enough really has to be enough with this. Even if millions more was spent to replace the problematic crumbling concrete beams and the upside down scarf joints between them with steel as originally specified it would address none of the funiculars operational shortcomings.
To his credit Ivan McKee when he was the minister responsible did question the situation he inherited from Fergus Ewing, who authorised the repairs and who has long been an apologist for CML and the failed funicular. However with £17m spent at that point McKee was left with little choice by HIEs actions to conclude continuing the repairs was the least worst option. HIE has persistently and falsely presented the case as fix the funicular or close CairnGorm permanently, as such that option was considered by the Scottish Ministers.
This mess makes it almost inconceivable that public investment will be available to the other snowsports areas going forward, while at the same time making private capital investment impossible.
Dave Macleod is HIE’s head of property and infrastructure said:
"It is a really challenging project.”
Fixing the un-fixable usually is.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A government spokesperson said: "The current programme of works has proven more technically challenging and complex than had been expected. The project team also had to contend with severe weather conditions and below-freezing temperatures on the mountain."
Severe weather and below freezing temperatures, 1,000m above sea level in Scotland, in winter? Surely not!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The article incorrectly says "Opened in 2001 at a cost of £19.5m...". In fact the cost of building the funicular in the first place ended up as £26.75 million.
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I wonder if anyone under 40 years of age considers Aviemore as a "snowsports" destination any more?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| GreenDay wrote: |
| I wonder if anyone under 40 years of age considers Aviemore as a "snowsports" destination any more? |
As someone relatively local (Aberdeenshire), I'd love to head over and ski there, but with no reliable uplift it's not worth the 2 hour drive for me. My dad skied Aviemore in the 70s, and one day I'd like to - I'd say they need to rip out the funicular and replace with a decent lift - but even then, experience at the other centres shows that they have to close the chairs with high winds and then it's a drag, in every sense of the word. Also not a cheap day out with lift passes being what they are. I was at Glenshee in January and they couldn't/wouldn't even open the higher drag lifts because of the wind, so I'm kind of over Scottish skiing at the moment. Next winter will be a boys trip with my snowboarding teenage son to Switzerland - I'd rather save the £100-odd quid it costs me for a day skiing up here and put it towards a decent Euro trip.
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I have great memories of Cairngorm skiing both pre and post funicular.
Never was a grand funicular fan: crowded, long waits, queues.
Not a fan of drag lifts, either: but a reliable series of drags to get you in stages from bottom to top, and then repeating all or part thereof, is far far preferable to a little train which doesn't work.
Such potential at Cairngorm; now seems ruined and irrecoverable.
Coe, meanwhile, is doing its best to benefit and upgrade.
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Even in the 1970s and 1980s when snow was much more reliable and there were far more lifts open at Cairngorm, the skiing was far from reliable with storm closures, huge queues and not infrequent boiler plate ice.
When it all came together however it could be a lot more fun than the Alps, buts it’s always been a frustrating ski hill.
The funicular marked a turning point for me personally and after that I’ve hardly skied there preferring Glenshee and Glencoe.
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| Peter S wrote: |
| The funicular marked a turning point for me personally and after that I’ve hardly skied there preferring Glenshee and Glencoe. |
The same for me and I suspect quite a few others.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Clear all the concrete and steel, return the corries with their delicate Arctic-Alpine flora to nature.
Climate change is making skiing at already marginal locations almost untenable. Sadly.
Whoever in Scotland is persisting with wasting public money on this bird brain vanity project, should stop. The money wasted to date becomes a sunk cost, it’s madness to keep pouring more funds in.
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
Clear all the concrete and steel, return the corries with their delicate Arctic-Alpine flora to nature.
Climate change is making skiing at already marginal locations almost untenable. |
Ironically CairnGorm is the only one that has scope for upwards expansion and has terrain suitable for all ability levels near the top.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This has been going round in circles (on here) for 2 decades.
Overpriced ferries, overpriced "parliament" building, overpriced snowtrain that closes when it snows...
Scotland just doesn't have the management, govt, or engineering skills for big projects anymore.
Time to shutdown Cairngorm. Dismantle the lifts. Gift the mountain back to Mother Nature.
Let the other ski stations, like Glencoe, pickup the winter business. They deserve it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| haggishunter wrote: |
| Snow&skifan wrote: |
Clear all the concrete and steel, return the corries with their delicate Arctic-Alpine flora to nature.
Climate change is making skiing at already marginal locations almost untenable. |
Ironically CairnGorm is the only one that has scope for upwards expansion and has terrain suitable for all ability levels near the top. |
Aspect, altitude, topography, the colder NE Grampians …. it ticked many boxes.
Which body/bodies were the driving force behind the funicular?
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@Whitegold, HS2. An English failure on a much grander scale than Cairngorm. It’s not just a Scottish problem.
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You know it makes sense.
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| what...snow wrote: |
| @Whitegold, HS2. An English failure on a much grander scale than Cairngorm. It’s not just a Scottish problem. |
Indeed 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
| The funicular marked a turning point for me personally and after that I’ve hardly skied there preferring Glenshee and Glencoe. |
The same for me and I suspect quite a few others. |
Me too.
Been to Aviemore a lot over last couple of decades, but for MTB only.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Snow&skifan wrote: |
..snip..
Which body/bodies were the driving force behind the funicular? |
HIE - Highlands and Islands Enterprise, the quango that owns the Northern side of Cairn Gorm, the infrastructure and since Nov 2018 the operating company (having previously owned CML from May 2008 to June 2014).
When the Funicular project was being conceived, the chairman of HIE was Sir Fraser Morrison, Chairman and CEO of the funicular construction company, Morrison Construction. I’m sure there is another word apart from CairnGorm that begins with C.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Corruption between a quango and the private sector? Surely not?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sounds good. I am always impressed with Glencoe. I suspect this is more to allow easier bike uplift for summer downhill mountain biking, but it makes sense.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’ve still don’t understand why if they are doing this they don’t install a dry slope on a single piste
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^ it’s quite expensive and difficult to maintain it and they also still have to satisfy environmental concerns which would be quite large if you smashed down 400m of matting !
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I’ve still don’t understand why if they are doing this they don’t install a dry slope on a single piste |
Can't really think of a sensible area for a dry slope tbh.
The area spanning the current chair exit and base station is already well geared up for the summer MTB trails, and the area immediately under the chair has too many gulleys and the river imo.
As Orange also notes, it's a bit environmentally poor and would look brutal in an area which is really beautiful.
I guess any gondola plan would include better facilities at the top station which is positive.
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| haggishunter wrote: |
When the Funicular project was being conceived, the chairman of HIE was Sir Fraser Morrison, Chairman and CEO of the funicular construction company, Morrison Construction. I’m sure there is another word apart from CairnGorm that begins with C. |
Cnut?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A big bet.
“Preliminary discussions are underway with everyone from HIE and the Scottish Government to financial institutions and private investors,”
Would HIE and/or Scot govt even be interested, once bitten......
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@ster, maybe they are considering closing Nevis Range and selling their base bubble lifts?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Bigtipper wrote: |
| @ster, maybe they are considering closing Nevis Range and selling their base bubble lifts? |
If Nevis Range intend continuing as a mountain biking venue then they'll need to keep their bubble lifts.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 25-09-24 12:28; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
| Bigtipper wrote: |
| @ster, maybe they are considering closing Nevis Range and selling their base bubble lifts? |
If. Nevis Range intend continuing as a mountain biking venue then they'll need to keep their bubble lifts. |
Are Nevis Range considering closing skiing operations?! 
The back corries are some of the best lift accessible(-ish) skiing in Scotland!
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You know it makes sense.
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Yep. If Cairngorm and now Nevis Range are letting the snowsports side wither away and are more interested in other activities then the snowsports enthusiasts (as many are already doing) will move their Scottish visits to places like Glencoe, Glenshee and the Lecht where the managements are skiing/snowboarding focussed.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Perhaps better thus, then the market can rationalise, stabilise and survive.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Well, let's all consider the consistent theme with NR and Cairngorm shall we ? An H and I and an E.....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Alastair Pink wrote: |
Yep. If Cairngorm and now Nevis Range are letting the snowsports side wither away and are more interested in other activities then the snowsports enthusiasts (as many are already doing) will move their Scottish visits to places like Glencoe, Glenshee and the Lecht where the managements are skiing/snowboarding focussed. |
As you say, it already happens, I only go to Glenshee or Glencoe, dependent on which has better snow conditions/weather.
I would have more sympathy with Nevis if Glencoe hadnt amply demonstrated that it was perfectly possible to run a ski centre and a MTB/Tourist picture taking spot without sacrificing one for the other.
I genuinely wouldnt consider Cairngorm or Nevis Range these days - which is a shame, as I used to go a fair bit.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would probably consider visiting Nevis if they replaced the removed "Braveheart" lift on the back. I still don't understand why they almost never ran it. Once I was there and they did a test running the lift for a few minutes and lots of skiers thought it was open and skied down. With a small crowd of people waiting at the bottom they decided they would have to continue running it, so for a couple of hours a good time was had by all. But that was many years ago.
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Agree Braveheart and the drop in from Lemming Ridge was the best bit about Nevis Range. But in a volatile climate I can totally see why no one wants to invest in skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
| I still don't understand why they almost never ran it (ie Braveheart Chair) |
I once asked a ski patroller. They said it was unreliable and parts were hard to come by.
| Quote: |
| But in a volatile climate I can totally see why no one wants to invest in skiing |
That's not true for Glencoe, which has invested in skiing in recent years.
Scotland - particularly Cairngorm, Glencoe and Nevis Range upper mountains - isn't as unreliable for snow cover as is often made out. I have regularly ski toured into May at those areas and have often thought that they close too soon. And, over the years, Cairngorm has been reliable for ski touring on my birthday in mid-December, quite often from the bottom of the mountain.
Glencoe, Glenshee and The Lecht do seem to make the most of the snow that they get. Cairngorm and Nevis Range don't.... 
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How many days a season will a Glencoe gondola be closed by wind.
The artistic image looks very wind-exposed.
Glencoe needs to plant 5-10 million trees (or more) and provide windbreaks and rainbreaks for their slopes and lifts.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
How many days a season will a Glencoe gondola be closed by wind.
The artistic image looks very wind-exposed.
Glencoe needs to plant 5-10 million trees (or more) and provide windbreaks and rainbreaks for their slopes and lifts. |
The wind is the killer - I schlepped over the Glenshee for a change (Lecht is my usual haunt) hoping for a good day but barely any lifts open, no chairlifts or even drag lifts top any of the mid or top stations because of the wind. Licht usually manage to open the drag lifts on those days. So a gondola sounds great, but would be interesting to know the stats for the past few seasons (or more) to see how many days it would not run due to wind.
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| Quote: |
| So a gondola sounds great, but would be interesting to know the stats for the past few seasons (or more) to see how many days it would not run due to wind |
Best option would be like the Gletscherbus gondola at Hintertux in Austria  It runs on a double cable, so is very stable and can run in high winds. No doubt completely unaffordable though...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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A cheaper and better outcome for everyone involved would be for governments (UK and Scotland) to give a bit of subsidy to flights and rail journeys out of Scotland, to places where there’s reliable snow and a working lift system.
Of course it won’t happen but it would still be cheaper and a better outcome for all.
The whole Cairngorm funicular saga is a classic example of the wrong thing at the wrong time in the wrong place all driven and delivered by the wrong people.
Should feature as a case study in every project management training event in the world. 
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Isn't the Gencoe access lift a bit too high for planting trees? The current lift starts at 370 metres. It is then very steep and rocky up to 680 metres (which I imagine is where the photoshop is pictured). Is this where the top station would be? The drag-lift then runs fairly flat to the main skiing.
I don't see the point. The access chair s only used once in the day and is usually empty. Or is it really for a few people going up for the view so they don't get cold on the lift?
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 29-09-24 13:54; edited 1 time in total
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