 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I would like to heliski for the first time this year.
I live in Europe and I'm an advanced snowboarder.
I'm interested in deep snow and fun runs (maybe tree runs too).
Options:
- Canada
- Iceland
Any other suggestions?
Let me know ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just booked a week with Silverton Mountain Guides in Alaska. I hope the snow is deep, it will certainly be steep, not so many trees though. Fun? It better ffffing be 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Ray Zorro, I think that's run by a friend of a friend. I hear good things 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've ridden a lot in both Canada and Iceland. Other places are likely good too. Google should be good for it.
The EA company is at least partly acting as an agent for other organisations such as Whistler Heli, RMR, Last Frontier, Arctic and a few others. Nothing wrong with that, but you can look at operators' websites directly to get a closer feel of what they do. You don't really need a tour operator; I've never bothered using them for heli even back in the day.
I had some difficulty getting refunds from Last Frontier over the Covid thing. They cancelled on me after I'd spent a few grand getting to their location, then refused to refund the cost of the trip or credit it in full. That's not nice, I read up on the Canadian legal system and got all my money back. I've since ridden with many people who were not so "lucky" with them. Other operators I was using at that time - the two main Icelandic ones, Wiegele and Powder Mountain - were no problem at all and still have my business. Make sure you understand the refund policies of any operator you use in advance.
Iceland has no trees. Well it has a few actually, but you won't find any tree snowboarding.
It also has a radically later schedule from BC, where I'll be starting in a week and a bit. And where they have lots of trees, although they may not always take first timers in them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What’s the rough cost of a heli day in Europe?
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| hang11 wrote: |
| What’s the rough cost of a heli day in Europe? |
7-8k for a week in Georgia / Turkey
In CH it’s something like 700chf per head (including guide) for the first drop and another few hundred for each additional. Italy used to be a bit cheaper €300 per drop a few years back - probably more now
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Interesting - a lot more than I pay.
Usually go about 6-700 gbp for a 7 or 8 run day here. Decent terrain with lots of vertical m too.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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As mentioned you need to carefully check in advance what their policies are for cancellation, bad weather, group skill level etc. For example, I’ve been on trips, where people could barely ski in powder, or where someone was sick from being drunk the night before, or where people disobey the guides etc.
Some operators like Whistler Heli are biased towards the experience, rather the skiing/boarding, with expensive video and photography added on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| phil_w wrote: |
I've ridden a lot in both Canada and Iceland. Other places are likely good too. Google should be good for it.
The EA company is at least partly acting as an agent for other organisations such as Whistler Heli, RMR, Last Frontier, Arctic and a few others. Nothing wrong with that, but you can look at operators' websites directly to get a closer feel of what they do. You don't really need a tour operator; I've never bothered using them for heli even back in the day.
I had some difficulty getting refunds from Last Frontier over the Covid thing. They cancelled on me after I'd spent a few grand getting to their location, then refused to refund the cost of the trip or credit it in full. That's not nice, I read up on the Canadian legal system and got all my money back. I've since ridden with many people who were not so "lucky" with them. Other operators I was using at that time - the two main Icelandic ones, Wiegele and Powder Mountain - were no problem at all and still have my business. Make sure you understand the refund policies of any operator you use in advance.
Iceland has no trees. Well it has a few actually, but you won't find any tree snowboarding.
It also has a radically later schedule from BC, where I'll be starting in a week and a bit. And where they have lots of trees, although they may not always take first timers in them. |
Thanks
Aside from Canada being early on right? More towards Jan - mid fed, and Iceland later in the season.
How would you compare the riding in Iceland vs Canada?
The snow? The experience? The overall fun ?
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| hang11 wrote: |
| What’s the rough cost of a heli day in Europe? |
It's not directly comparable with most other heli though. It's a different kind of product. I've never helied in mainland Europe for that reason.
| doryz wrote: |
| Aside from Canada being early on right? More towards Jan - mid fed, and Iceland later in the season. |
That's my pattern. BC in December through March. Iceland May/ June. In April, look at the conditions first.
Non-experts will find late season BC and Iceland easier because they may avoid riding trees, which are more challenging.
| doryz wrote: |
| How would you compare the riding in Iceland vs Canada? |
Very different. There are a lot of similarities in the way the operators work, but the terrain and snow is very different.
Iceland's got a costal snowpack. You won't get white smoke breaking over your head there. The snow is more like Whistler or Bella Coola snow than interior snow, and you're riding it late season (once it's light enough...). I once rode terrible snow in Iceland: rained on, unrideable by most people, unsafe for experts. That's not typical though, and the weather changes fast across the geography and time; the next day is when the shot below was taken, and the snow was fine. In BC sometimes they'll get so much snow (eg 75cm) that the slide risk and penetration resistance mean you can't ride anything either. It can rain there too, although it's less likely, but imagine what that does to the snowpack. Slide risk in BC is massively higher, in my opinion - you will see slide evidence all around in the depths of a BC winter, much less so in Iceland.
Iceland's got effectively no trees. So you won't be out there in poor visibility, and non-experts can enjoy "the Alpine" (above tree line snow).
This was Iceland in late May 2022. You can see the type of snow and the terrain, which is typical.
Day length It's light in Iceland all day, so the down day thing works a bit differently. You may well still be down all day, and the weather's coastal so very variable, but you can always slip out at 22:00 to get your turns in. Contrast with BC where in December days will be 08:15 -> 14:50 or so at the solstice. You'll get the same vertical (if you're good enough), but the BC operation needs to be more disciplined and less laid back to do it in those hours. If you're a first timer that's a serious physical challenge. Experts love trees because they are more technically demanding. Peak season is late because most people are "advanced" not expert, not because conditions are better.
Here's a shot from the Alpine in BC. You will spend some time there at any time of year, but you need blue skies to see it.
| Quote: |
| The experience? The overall fun ? |
The experience is different essentially the same, if that makes sense. The guides work both places (early season/ late season), so the systems they use are essentially the same. Operationally the differentiator comes down to the owners' attitude and the type of operator. Personally I prefer operators who don't do "daily" stuff, because that's not my focus. I've never had bad food, bad board prep, or anything else negative, aside from the Covid thing already mentioned. The reason is [and bear in mind that I worked for a heli/cat company for a couple of decades] that they want repeat business. They could p*** people off, but that costs massively in lost revenue, so they try not to. The costs of the "service wrap" are small compared with the costs of the helicopter, so it's worth getting that right.
I used to ride cats a lot (for business) and the most common thing people would say on the way home was "that was my best ski best day ever". Some people don't have fun heli-boarding, but where I've seen that, I've felt it was an issue with them, not with the product. For example some rich people can't understand that bad weather isn't something their money can change 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Ray Zorro wrote: |
https://www.eaheliskiing.com/destinations/europe/spain
I'm going with these in March. |
Aren't you worried March might be a little late ?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| phil_w wrote: |
| hang11 wrote: |
| What’s the rough cost of a heli day in Europe? |
It's not directly comparable with most other heli though. It's a different kind of product. I've never helied in mainland Europe for that reason.
| doryz wrote: |
| Aside from Canada being early on right? More towards Jan - mid fed, and Iceland later in the season. |
That's my pattern. BC in December through March. Iceland May/ June. In April, look at the conditions first.
Non-experts will find late season BC and Iceland easier because they may avoid riding trees, which are more challenging.
| doryz wrote: |
| How would you compare the riding in Iceland vs Canada? |
Very different. There are a lot of similarities in the way the operators work, but the terrain and snow is very different.
Iceland's got a costal snowpack. You won't get white smoke breaking over your head there. The snow is more like Whistler or Bella Coola snow than interior snow, and you're riding it late season (once it's light enough...). I once rode terrible snow in Iceland: rained on, unrideable by most people, unsafe for experts. That's not typical though, and the weather changes fast across the geography and time; the next day is when the shot below was taken, and the snow was fine. In BC sometimes they'll get so much snow (eg 75cm) that the slide risk and penetration resistance mean you can't ride anything either. It can rain there too, although it's less likely, but imagine what that does to the snowpack. Slide risk in BC is massively higher, in my opinion - you will see slide evidence all around in the depths of a BC winter, much less so in Iceland.
Iceland's got effectively no trees. So you won't be out there in poor visibility, and non-experts can enjoy "the Alpine" (above tree line snow).
This was Iceland in late May 2022. You can see the type of snow and the terrain, which is typical.
Day length It's light in Iceland all day, so the down day thing works a bit differently. You may well still be down all day, and the weather's coastal so very variable, but you can always slip out at 22:00 to get your turns in. Contrast with BC where in December days will be 08:15 -> 14:50 or so at the solstice. You'll get the same vertical (if you're good enough), but the BC operation needs to be more disciplined and less laid back to do it in those hours. If you're a first timer that's a serious physical challenge. Experts love trees because they are more technically demanding. Peak season is late because most people are "advanced" not expert, not because conditions are better.
Here's a shot from the Alpine in BC. You will spend some time there at any time of year, but you need blue skies to see it.
| Quote: |
| The experience? The overall fun ? |
The experience is different essentially the same, if that makes sense. The guides work both places (early season/ late season), so the systems they use are essentially the same. Operationally the differentiator comes down to the owners' attitude and the type of operator. Personally I prefer operators who don't do "daily" stuff, because that's not my focus. I've never had bad food, bad board prep, or anything else negative, aside from the Covid thing already mentioned. The reason is [and bear in mind that I worked for a heli/cat company for a couple of decades] that they want repeat business. They could p*** people off, but that costs massively in lost revenue, so they try not to. The costs of the "service wrap" are small compared with the costs of the helicopter, so it's worth getting that right.
I used to ride cats a lot (for business) and the most common thing people would say on the way home was "that was my best ski best day ever". Some people don't have fun heli-boarding, but where I've seen that, I've felt it was an issue with them, not with the product. For example some rich people can't understand that bad weather isn't something their money can change |
Oh Wow thank you for that detailed post, really awesome
So you're saying in iceland it's not that deep snow as in Canada?
More like resort off-piste than waist high snow?
Is that your experience?
Also I understand that do really enjoy Canada it's best to go Dec, Jan, Max mid Feb? (I understand from march it can get slushy?)?
Compared to iceland that I think to go around mid / late march to maybe see the northen lights?
What are you thoughts on that ?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| doryz wrote: |
Hi,
I would like to heliski for the first time this year.
I live in Europe and I'm an advanced snowboarder.
I'm interested in deep snow and fun runs (maybe tree runs too).
Options:
- Canada
- Iceland
Any other suggestions?
Let me know ? |
You probably won’t get trees or snorkel-deep snow in Iceland.
I’ve only heliskied once, with Kashmir Heliski in Gulmarg, India. It was epic! Deep powder, tree runs, open alpine runs from ~5000 metres… You can also mix in lift days to reduce the cost, and jeep-shuttle tree runs if the weather shuts down other options (or do that in good weather to get >3000 vert metre descents). Great food and felt then like a proper adventure too.
I also used to do marketing for a high-end ski and surf agency selling heliski (amongst other) trips (hence how I got invited to Kashmir ). The VAST majority of heliski trips we sold were to Canada, as in most instances that’s where you get the best combo of epic snow, great terrain, luxury accommodation and long-established operators with efficient, streamlined set-ups and programs. BUT you pay for it.
When it’s on Alaska is probably the best. But less consistent/more downdays than BC. Georgia and Kashmir a but more wild west (well, east) and adventure vibes. My impression of heliskiing in Iceland from then-colleagues was that its more where you go at the end of the season to extend your winter with spring snow and great views rather than the ‘typical’ deep powder impression one might have of heliskiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| doryz wrote: |
Hi,
I would like to heliski for the first time this year.
I live in Europe and I'm an advanced snowboarder.
I'm interested in deep snow and fun runs (maybe tree runs too).
Options:
- Canada
- Iceland
Any other suggestions?
Let me know ? |
Anyone have any experience with Kamchatka? Spain? Georgia? Turkey? Any input on what it's like? How is the snow ?
When is the best time to go ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
So you're saying in iceland it's not that deep snow as in Canada?
More like resort off-piste than waist high snow? Is that your experience? |
Yeah, pretty much. Don't expect "over the head" snow in turns in Iceland, at least to judge from my own personal several weeks riding there.
Here's a "midnight sun" and ocean shot from May 2019. However notice that the snow surface is technically "shite", and we're riding runnels of snow in between grass. That smells great, and 2019 was a poor snow year, but it's not BC (see video at bottom).
Here's 2 years later, 2021, just as Iceland re-opened after Covid:
The snow was much better and more typical that season, but if you look closely you can see what it is and what it's not.
My mate Greg from LA: this was the only accessible snow world wide at that point, and people came from everywhere for it.
"The gold coast". We flew over whales in that inlet.
And here's an oldie video from BC showing typical late December conditions. The first bit is some easy trees but with a lot of snow. At about 1:00 it switches to Alpine (above the tree line). You'll usually get a mix, but mostly trees early season. Late season can be all Alpine, but the snow is usually worse than that shown here. You can see it's a completely different product from Iceland, although both of course offer fresh tracks.
Snowboarding in Blue River 2015-16 from phil 45464 https://vimeo.com/149608586
I've been to AK a couple of times on summer expeditions, but avoided it in winter mostly because of the down day ratio, plus I like trees.
I shall probably bag Greenland this season if the conditions are good - one of the Icelandic companies (Artic) operates there. It sounds similar to Iceland, culturally a bit more out there.
There are lots of places to go. When travelling as a heli boarder I feel I'm somewhat exposed in poorer places.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| phil_w wrote: |
| Quote: |
So you're saying in iceland it's not that deep snow as in Canada?
More like resort off-piste than waist high snow? Is that your experience? |
Yeah, pretty much. Don't expect "over the head" snow in turns in Iceland, at least to judge from my own personal several weeks riding there.
Here's a "midnight sun" and ocean shot from May 2019. However notice that the snow surface is technically "shite", and we're riding runnels of snow in between grass. That smells great, and 2019 was a poor snow year, but it's not BC (see video at bottom).
Here's 2 years later, 2021, just as Iceland re-opened after Covid:
The snow was much better and more typical that season, but if you look closely you can see what it is and what it's not.
My mate Greg from LA: this was the only accessible snow world wide at that point, and people came from everywhere for it.
"The gold coast". We flew over whales in that inlet.
And here's an oldie video from BC showing typical late December conditions. The first bit is some easy trees but with a lot of snow. At about 1:00 it switches to Alpine (above the tree line). You'll usually get a mix, but mostly trees early season. Late season can be all Alpine, but the snow is usually worse than that shown here. You can see it's a completely different product from Iceland, although both of course offer fresh tracks.
Snowboarding in Blue River 2015-16 from phil 45464 https://vimeo.com/149608586
I've been to AK a couple of times on summer expeditions, but avoided it in winter mostly because of the down day ratio, plus I like trees.
I shall probably bag Greenland this season if the conditions are good - one of the Icelandic companies (Artic) operates there. It sounds similar to Iceland, culturally a bit more out there.
There are lots of places to go. When travelling as a heli boarder I feel I'm somewhat exposed in poorer places. |
Thanks yes I see the difference clearly.
I would be a little bumded out to go and pay 15K and end up with 10cm snow, despite the magical views.
I might not be able to go, but I think I'll go next year to BC, I love tree riding and riding in a cloud is something I have yet to do.
I agree with you eastern ones with heli might e a little risky, I'm not sure about the safety either, maybe spain..
Dunno
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| doryz wrote: |
[
I agree with you eastern ones with heli might e a little risky, I'm not sure about the safety either, maybe spain..
Dunno |
Re. Kashmir: Clinton called it ‘the most dangerous place in the world’ not that long ago, and yes there are plenty of machine guns and RPGs about. People in the main v friendly, but definitely once you’re outside of Gulmarg village it feels pretty wild west. Whether that’s a positive or negative depends on your POV I guess, but for me that made the trip much more interesting than to just another western country.
The helicopters were piloted and maintained by Swiss guys though, and I had no concerns about the safety if their flight ops (beyond the unavoidable risks of flying in small helis in big mountains anywhere).
If you want the ‘classic’ heliski experience you’re best off with a fly-in lodge in BC though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@doryz, given this is your first time, I'd suggest a north america heli-trip.... and depending on when you go, consider a lodge that is near a cat-ski or a resort, so you dont miss out if the weather is poor.
The stories above are good, and exciting, but you might want to build up to them! We did 5 days with CMH at Revelstoke, and we didn't get all our vertical, so got a refund... and that's a location where weather is 'reasonable'. The operators don't like to talk about down days, and neither do the clients.... and at least in a resort-based operation there are alternatives. Worth reading up on EA's site about the different options....
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| doryz wrote: |
| doryz wrote: |
Hi,
I would like to heliski for the first time this year.
I live in Europe and I'm an advanced snowboarder.
I'm interested in deep snow and fun runs (maybe tree runs too).
Options:
- Canada
- Iceland
Any other suggestions?
Let me know ? |
Anyone have any experience with Kamchatka? Spain? Georgia? Turkey? Any input on what it's like? How is the snow ?
When is the best time to go ? |
I have heliskied Kamchatka (but no one will be going to Russia in the near future) and Georgia (some would now regard this as risky in terms of its geography). To me these are places for skiers/boarders who have heli-ed elsewhere so often that they want something new. If you fancy Georgia - ie Caucasus - though Flory Kern is the operator to use. Turkey and Albania are on my list and I have contacts at both if you want them. However, as with previous posts I think you have to go to BC first off - it is the most reliable, best set up and looks like a La Niña year will be favourable. The best operations will already be booked owing to carry overs from the last 2 seasons so I think using someone like EA could be worthwhile unless you have time to check availability at the various operator websites.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
Re. Kashmir: Clinton called it ‘the most dangerous place in the world’ not that long ago, and yes there are plenty of machine guns and RPGs about |
Sounds like Grenoble
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There's a well established heli operation in Gressoney too.
We've used them a couple of times on the GnarliBuG.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| admin wrote: |
There's a well established heli operation in Gressoney too.
We've used them a couple of times on the GnarliBuG. |
Still available? I heard Italy heli drops no longer so easy?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tbh I don't know: not checked in this season.
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| admin wrote: |
| Tbh I don't know: not checked in this season. |
This is what I got from my Italy guide:
In Macugnaga is closed until they make a new regulation sistem...and I don't know when it Will happen. In Alagna it will be normally open for the next season until end of April...
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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"Heli-Guides" isn't in any way 'mine', it's just the name of the company that runs the heli operation in the Aosta Valley and who sent the email I quoted from.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| admin wrote: |
| "Heli-Guides" isn't in any way 'mine', it's just the name of the company that runs the heli operation in the Aosta Valley and who sent the email I quoted from. |
What! You don’t yet have a heli for bash disposal!?!?!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't be getting the hamsters' paws dirty with such stuff: better outsourced
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Greenland is a very similar snowpack to Scandinavia: think Scotland on steroids rather than BC blower. It's possible to get deep stuff in those areas - one year I got my only face shot in a couloir on Austvagoya - but don't go if you're expecting BC Bro fist bumps and snorkels every run, as others have said. Not a problem in BC or AK but be aware that many places in Europe only allow drops at certain spots so you can basically end up riding a lot of vertical in fantastic terrain down a chopped up piste  Providing you have an entertaining pilot, the heli bit is pretty sick though. Enjoy.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One thing with this - bookings this year are crazy up. It's almost as if all these people spent the Covid seasons at home saving their pennies, and now they've all come out. So you're probably too late for anything other than cancellations already.
Greenland: sounds like Iceland. I think the Greenland season is earlier though, so what you go to Iceland for is snowboarding in June, not over-the-head powder turns.
The main stuff I understand about EU heli is that you're unlikely to get consistent cold temperatures top to bottom, plus they're essentially daily operators, and you're not getting a much flying time. Nothing wrong with any of that, but you need to be clear what the product is precisely.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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One suggestion is to go with major players like CMH.
Do not be tempted by very cheap options where they could be sacrificing your safety.
Also, if you can find a few skier friends to go with that's great. otherwise, ask the company to pair you in group with skiers. you sometimes need them to break the track for you when it's flat.
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I've been loving all the useful info in this thread, and especially Phil W's photos. Thanks!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Only one experience of heli skiing but it didn't live up to expectations. It was out of Gressoney a few years back. Despite asking for a multi-drop day we basically got a heli-assisted touring day. We were dropped about 4,000m, spent over an hour traversing some truly horrible snow, skied a couple of pitches of decent snow and then spent the rest of the day traversing out the bottom of the valley and then multiple lifts and pistes to get back to our resort.
One of the main issues limiting European heliskiing is the dedicated / limited drop off zones. You can't just fly in to the best conditions, ski them and have the heli waiting at the bottom to pick you up. However, I noted the spanish option linked higher up doesn't have these constraints.
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FAQ
