The weather maps are very favorable for a serious dump of snow from Thursday. We still have a while to go, but the maps looks very nice to kick off the 2024/2025 season.
A lot of rain will fall to start with-
After months of record warmth and heat, everything will be different this week. That starts today with a cold front that triggers numerous (heavy) showers on both the north and south side of the Alps. There are frequent thunderstorms and large amounts of rain, most of it in Carinthia and parts of northern Italy where locally more than 50 mm of rain falls. The snowfall is not yet an issue, except on the glaciers. From about 3500 meters, a few tens of centimeters of snow can fall.
Nothing really special at the beginning of September, but what happens in the second half of the week is of a different order.!!!!!
Possible prolonged snowfall
There is a low-pressure area near Iceland splitting off on Wednesday and moving southwards. In its wake will be much colder air that will reach the Mediterranean on Thursday and will cause a significant activation of the precipitation. Thursday..
There will be a well-developed low pressure area above northern Italy that will cause persistent snowfall in large parts of the Alps. It seems to be a Gegenstromlage (special type of Sudstau) : soft, moist air from the south slides over the cold air that has flowed in, causing precipitation on both sides of the Alps. Because it will be much colder than now, this can result in snow from about 1500 meters.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
An autumn dump is always welcome!
Not often we hear something so positive from you, @stanton!!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
A bit more detail here, already mentioned on the Weather Outlook thread:
Südstau is a form of stau in which moist air is sucked in from the Mediterranean Sea and collides with the southern Alps. The causative agent is often the well-known Genoa depression.
This can produce particularly large amounts of snow in a short period of time. Characteristic of a südstau is that the snow falls mainly in the southern Alps. In the northern Alps, the air dries out and the clouds dissolve. This is called a hair dryer (Föhn).
Some südstau situations have become legendry December 2008 and the entire 2013-2014 ,Meters of fresh snow fell in Italy and the south of Austria and Switzerland.
Warm sea acts as a trigger
The sometimes gigantic amounts of snow are caused by the relatively warm Mediterranean Sea that is located a short distance from the Alps. The air that passes over this can contain more water vapor than cold air, which means that precipitation is often heavier.
Higher snow line
A risk at südstau is always the snow line. Because the air is naturally softer than with a nordstau, there is a chance that it will rain in the lower valleys. Watch the zero degree snowline.
Gegenstromlage
Special formations of a südstau are the ""retour d'est" and the ""Gegenstromlage"".
During a Gegenstromlage, the südstau passes over the main alpine ridge, so to speak, so that it also snows on the north side of the Alps.
This occurs when the valleys in the north are filled with cold air. Because cold air is heavier than the slightly warmer air from the south, the air cannot descend (there is no Föhn). As a result, it also snows on the north side of the Alps during a Gegenstromlage.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@stanton, not sure that explanation stacks up this time. There is no Fõhn in sight for the Munich area but very wet & cold weather. The video shows what is called a Vb Low, this sits over central Europe east of the alps, draws in warm humid air from the (very warm) Mediterranean over the Balkans which in turn drives down cold wet air over the eastern alps potentially causing huge levels of precipitation. In some ways it is not dissimilar to a short lived Nordstau with cold air coming from the north over the eastern alps but that is usually a result of a slow moving weather system over the Baltic. Technically this is different but same result cold air and lots of rain / snow.
After all it is free
After all it is free
This was an English explanation I found of the Vb Tief (Vb Low):
Tracks further E & NE than the classic Genoa Low, Sudstau or Retour d'Est phenomena and licks around the Eastern end of the Alps.
Looks to cause flooding events at lower altitudes in NE Italy, Slovenia, Austria, Czechia, W Slovakia & Poland, as well as a heavy dump over a vast area of the E Alps (both sides of the Alpine divide) at altitude.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
snowball wrote:
Oh I do hope so (but isn't it mostly likely going to melt before December?)
Not necessarily the stuff on the glaciers, which is needed for us as even Hintertux closed this summer!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
There was fresh snow dusting the mountain tops in CH this morning
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
swskier wrote:
snowball wrote:
Oh I do hope so (but isn't it mostly likely going to melt before December?)
Not necessarily the stuff on the glaciers, which is needed for us as even Hintertux closed this summer!
Some glaciers in the E Alps are getting forecasts of of over 3m over next 6 days.
Snowing in the Val Gardena valley and a little forecast for Verbier this eve.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Snowing in the village in Colfosco (1650m) in the Italian Dolomites:
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nebelhorn/Oberstdorf
Fairly dramatic weather scheduled over the weekend in Austria/Poland/Czech Republic. Huge amounts of water...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
The main weather stream seems to be a bit further east than in some forecasts so not as much snow in the mountains as some suggestions. Still very wet in Bavaria though not as much as in, say, Vienna or Prague. Normal service back by mid next week 20 degrees and sunshine just in time for Oktoberfest
@munich_irish, Rosenheim Oktoberfest is a bit of a wash out today!
Our company are bussing a load of people up there, but colleagues of mine that booked aren't bothering at all.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
munich_irish wrote:
The main weather stream seems to be a bit further east than in some forecasts so not as much snow in the mountains as some suggestions. Still very wet in Bavaria though not as much as in, say, Vienna or Prague. Normal service back by mid next week 20 degrees and sunshine just in time for Oktoberfest
I find this kind of thing slightly worrying in some ways, the seasons now seem to be all over the place. The webcams in the Gastein valley today look exactly the same as they did in the 3rd week of January! Tons of snow at altitude and /snow/sleet/rain in the valley. With similar (if not lower) temperatures as well.
I bet it’s not very welcome with the locals. It will wreak havoc on the last few weeks of the summer type sports such as mountain biking and hiking so probably lose a fair bit of revenue for them. It can’t be great for the guys getting everything ready for the up and coming winter season either. Imagine trying to do last minute maintenance and rigging of the lifts in that! Plus imagine the nightmare it must cause in the resorts where they cover glaciers with insulation.
Still, I’m sure in a weeks time the sun will be out and most of it will be gone. I just hope it comes back in time for January!!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@japes1275, I think you’ll find it’s not that unusual an occurrence …
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It has been slightly concerning, in that I am currently south of the border. ÖBB sent me a warning 2 days ago that there may be disruptions this weekend, and that all ticket validity has been opened till Wednesday! Not that it helps me, as I don't think TrenItalia will take any notice, but as I'm currently on the service back to Innsbruck and suffering only a 30min delay, I don't think I'm likely to run into any major issues at this point. No snow in South Tyrol so far. Things may be different further east.
New winter tyres went on the car a couple of weeks ago, so we're all set!
The bikepark is closed though. They have a few “issues” today
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
These Webcams give a pretty good instant review over Austria..
Vienna will hopefully survive flooding due to the DonauKanal and the dams & weirs that are over designed ... However downstream in a few days Bratislava , Budapest, Belgrade may have problems
First suspected Avalanche death in Tirol (Karwendel) today, a group of about 30 German hikers stayed overnight in a mountain hut at 1500m. This morning they decided to descend because of the weather when one of them aged between 70 and 72 (press report) disappeared due to an Avalanche. While trying to rescue him one of the rescue team was injured in a secondary Avalanche. They were having difficulties with helicopters due to the weather conditions and further danger of secondary Avalanches but did manage to locate a signal with a helicopter equipped with a RECCO scanner. They were unable to reach the site of the signal and the rescue was called off at 3pm. The rest of the group was successfully rescued.
https://www.krone.at/3525497
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 14-09-24 18:57; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Wow, that's sobering to hear
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
japes1275 wrote:
I find this kind of thing slightly worrying in some ways, the seasons now seem to be all over the place. The webcams in the Gastein valley today look exactly the same as they did in the 3rd week of January! Tons of snow at altitude and /snow/sleet/rain in the valley. With similar (if not lower) temperatures as well.
I bet it’s not very welcome with the locals. It will wreak havoc on the last few weeks of the summer type sports such as mountain biking and hiking so probably lose a fair bit of revenue for them. It can’t be great for the guys getting everything ready for the up and coming winter season either. Imagine trying to do last minute maintenance and rigging of the lifts in that! Plus imagine the nightmare it must cause in the resorts where they cover glaciers with insulation.
Still, I’m sure in a weeks time the sun will be out and most of it will be gone. I just hope it comes back in time for January!!
In the east it's a bit more extreme than usual, but snow falls more Septembers than not. Maybe not usually within days of having been 30°C though! And yeah, PITA for the bike parks etc.
Approx. 1600m altitude at Steinplatte (Austria/Germany border area)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:
First suspected Avalanche death in Tirol (Karwendel) today, a group of about 30 German hikers stayed overnight in a mountain hut at 1500m
Awful news that Absolutely incredible weather for the time of year - practically unbelievable in fact.
Mrs MA have been vindicated in our decision to abort a four day Austria trip, including two nights in refuges at 2,200m in the Stubai Alps. Tonight would have been our first refuge night, but far better safe than sorry.
Off to our Tignes apartment on Tuesday instead, for 2 days hiking there. France has had only a dusting of snow at the highest altitudes.
After all it is free
After all it is free
https://avalanche.report/blog/at-07-en/10309
Initial info about current conditions and the avalanche in the Karwendel. This was just a couple of valleys behind Innsbruck, about halfway towards Achensee as the crow flies.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ski tourer died in Obertauern....touring against mountain rescue advice
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
