 Poster: A snowHead
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I need to get my skis stone ground (I've just serviced them and the base is convex). I normally only service them myself in the summer, but as they need a stone grind (and I've already waxed them) my thought is to get them stone ground mid-way through next season's ski trip, somewhere in Austria.
But... How do I know that the shop I go to is any good? So, is there a resource anywhere with reviews of ski service shops (or at least the ski service side - all the ski service places are typically also sales and rental)?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Your resource is likely to be 
If you say where you are going to, you will likely get a recommendation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'll be somewhere in the Tyrol region - no fixed abode (travelling around different resorts) but won't know until we are there exactly which resort we'll be in when (if I knew precisely where I would be wanting service then I would have mentioned it in the first place). I might just have to post a few days before once I have a better idea and see if there are any recommendations.
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Yup - ask when you know where you want the service done. It's likely your best shot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@SkiingPete, how'd you get a convex base?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I found the average places do a better job in low season as they can be overwhelmed in high season.
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How it got convex is an interesting question. I did research to see what others say and (somewhere else on a different forum) opinion was that it can be caused by skiing lots of man-made snow as it is harder on the skis. It is true that at times last year (and indeed the previous) that I skied quite a bit of man-made snow.
The skis are nine years old, probably skied eight seasons, mostly two weeks a year, but some three/four weeks so probably a total of around 20 weeks skiing. They have had one machine grind (I don't know if it was belt or stone as I was not clued up enough to check at the time - I know now from research yesterday that I need it stone ground to get it flat again). I only noticed this year is there is a small patch on one ski (under the binder) where it is a different shade and not as slippery when I run my hand over it (I figure that I must have scraped all the fresh wax off that specific point).
There will be those who say that I should get it ground and wax it again before I go skiing, but it must have been like it at the end of last year. I will be skiing again for four weeks next winter and my thought it is better to ski for a couple as it is and then have new wax for the last couple (hence desire to get it ground in Austria).
If anyone has better ideas as to why it might be convex then I welcome them.
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| Tirol 164 wrote: |
| I found the average places do a better job in low season as they can be overwhelmed in high season. |
Interesting comment that they do a better job in low season - would mid Jan be good as that's when I'll need it (on the premise that there are many less people skiing than over Christmas/New Year and later in Feb/March so while it's skiing season, not so busy)?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What about London? Where can I get my bases serviced without them being ground away, to remove the scratches and the semi competent mends I have put in? ie where "minimum grind" is honoured.
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Convex is the natural shape for a ski base to take on over time. Think about it you have metal at the edges (which isn't going to wear down) and plastic in between (that is) but because you roll from edge to edge when turning the plastic near the edges is up in the air about 50% of the time while closer to the middle is in contact with the snow more of the time. And if you've ever rubbed bare skin against an icy piste you'll know it's quite abrasive!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| snowball wrote: |
| What about London? Where can I get my bases serviced without them being ground away, to remove the scratches and the semi competent mends I have put in? ie where "minimum grind" is honoured. |
Can't offer a guarantee but Finches Emporium in Forest Hill might be a good shout. Small family run business so actually a chance of speaking to the service techs' to be explicit about what you do/don't want. Certainly stand a better chance that one of the high street chains that ship them off somewhere else to be done so even if you're clear to the staff in the shop no guarantee they will either pass it on/the tech at the other end will pay any attention to it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm confused. I recall a lesson in A level English Literature, 60 years ago, when our teacher (referring to an expression in Milton about "the vast concave") said she'd never really grasped the words "concave and convex" and asked whether her stomach was concave or convex. I told her that depended on whether she was inside looking out, or outside looking in. She remained confused, but was a jolly good teacher and I got an A! But I never really warmed to Milton.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| Convex is the natural shape for a ski base to take on over time. |
Convex = the plastic centre is higher (proud) of the metal edges. It's not the centre plastic worn down.
On the vast majority of the length the ski is flat (using a metal straight edge across from edge to edge). But in one area on each ski, to different amounts and in different places, the centre is higher (when the ski is upside down) than the edges, by about 0.6mm. When I scraped the excess wax off what seems to have happened is that virtually all the wax has gone from the worst high point. That is not right.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| snowball wrote: |
| What about London? Where can I get my bases serviced without them being ground away, to remove the scratches and the semi competent mends I have put in? ie where "minimum grind" is honoured. |
For London service if you have a car and are near SE London, you could try here..
https://www.batterski.com/
Only tried them once last year but I will go back, you get to talk to the person doing the service when you drop your skis/board off.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dodge wrote: |
| snowball wrote: |
| What about London? Where can I get my bases serviced without them being ground away, to remove the scratches and the semi competent mends I have put in? ie where "minimum grind" is honoured. |
For London service if you have a car and are near SE London, you could try here..
https://www.batterski.com/
Only tried them once last year but I will go back, you get to talk to the person doing the service when you drop your skis/board off. |
Joe’s pretty good, not sure he has a base grinding machine if that is what the OP is after as he does all by hand I believe but yes give him a call to check
Otherwise I’m sure Ski Bartlett can do it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Ski Bartlett in Hillingdon.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Re Austria. I'm sure around Innsbruck you can find somewhere with the latest Wintersteiger or Montana machine that know how to use it. You just need to be careful you specify minimum grind and are happy with cosmetic scratches etc to avoid too many passes. Bonus you can probably choose some fancy thumbprint structuring as well.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Oh I would prefer by hand.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| SkiingPete wrote: |
| The skis are nine years old, probably skied eight seasons, mostly two weeks a year, but some three/four weeks so probably a total of around 20 weeks skiing. |
Just one thought - the skis or bindings or both may be coming to the end of their life. Obviously there is no fixed amount of time, it depends on how well they've been treated and it depends on how much/hard you ski and/or how much you care about performance of your skis. Something to think about though before you go to the time and trouble of getting the grind.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| SkiingPete wrote: |
| Mjit wrote: |
| Convex is the natural shape for a ski base to take on over time. |
Convex = the plastic centre is higher (proud) of the metal edges. It's not the centre plastic worn down.
On the vast majority of the length the ski is flat (using a metal straight edge across from edge to edge). But in one area on each ski, to different amounts and in different places, the centre is higher (when the ski is upside down) than the edges, by about 0.6mm. When I scraped the excess wax off what seems to have happened is that virtually all the wax has gone from the worst high point. That is not right. |
Hah! Yea got my concave/convex mised up there. Not sure how you've managed that! 
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| snowball wrote: |
| Oh I would prefer by hand. |
1. Fnar fnar.
2. That's what she said.
3. Not sure you can do a base grind by hand. Edging/waxing, yes but not a grind.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Just one thought - the skis or bindings or both may be coming to the end of their life. Obviously there is no fixed amount of time, it depends on how well they've been treated and it depends on how much/hard you ski and/or how much you care about performance of your skis. Something to think about though before you go to the time and trouble of getting the grind. |
I would have thought 20 weeks is not much for a pair of skis - that would be a couple of seasons for anyone lucky enough to ski most days that they can. As I said I've typically skied 1-2 weeks a year, now up to 4 weeks.
Personally I think that I have treated them well (I don't think I mistreat them in any way). I was a red/blue skier when I first got them and have now progressed to including blacks, only on prepared pistes. I ski moderately fast (faster than many/most but there are still many that ski much faster) - I've reached the max speed that I want to go at (sometimes exceeding it and having to slow myself back down)! Typically that's 3-5 mins/km. I don't do jumps, just plain carving skiing.
I appreciate that no-one can say there is a fixed amount of time that they last - these are the second pair of skis I've owned after deciding that the previous pair were no longer up to my standard (and did feel an immediate improvement in these skis when I back-backed them on a run that I know)
1. What are typical ranges of time that skis last (ignoring accidental damage through abusing them or damage that might be caused by jumping etc.)?
2. What are the signs that they are coming to the end of their life? I've only skied the last 15 or so years so haven't experienced skis that reach the end of their life.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| SkiingPete wrote: |
1. What are typical ranges of time that skis last (ignoring accidental damage through abusing them or damage that might be caused by jumping etc.)?
2. What are the signs that they are coming to the end of their life? I've only skied the last 15 or so years so haven't experienced skis that reach the end of their life. |
I'd say for decent wood core skis lifetime is probably toward the upper end of 100-200 days. Even then they are not dead just may have lost some of their liveliness. Some dedicated ski bums can keep them going much longer. Probably my second most used pair has at least 100 days of my use on top of a "very hard paper round" as a demo ski in Chamonix.
End of life - when you ski something else and think wow this is so much better. This is an n+1 type argument that contains a nugget of truth about losing "spring" that you only realise when you back to back it with something new. Even then you can remount them tele or keep as rock skis or just clutter up the garage.
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The real question is whether the limits of the convexity relative to the sidewall exceed the useable thickness of the base.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The very best option is stump up the cash and get the Piste office to do "whatever work is needed according to Jon" ...in the uk.
Then its done and over with even if uk shipping possibly adds a bit ....you know its done right .
You are gambling on a excellent base grind card getting dealt in resort.... where spyderjon is a far better bet imo.
Resort servicing is for punters on a weeks trip away it doesnt take much to work out what your going to get in a holiday market .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@SkiingPete, DotM has it about right I think. After a couple of hundred days they will no longer be the ski they were. But the skier will struggle to perceive the loss of performance because it will have happened in tiny increments day after day. A bit like not perceive your childs growth because you see them every day or noticing the wrinkles on your partners face developing. Anyhow as DotM also says just as you may, as many do, either in ignorance or because you feel you can, live with the slowly degrading performance for much longer.
The bindings may become an issue before the skis do. #1 Bindings lose their indemnification (manufacture liability cover) which means shops won't touch them and #2 I've had bindings fail twice before I got to the stage of thinking the skis were shot - though they probably were, I just didn't have the experience to notice it.
I also agree with @Tirol 164 that you need to be careful who you take them to. And yes, I know that is where you started. I think Ski Bartlett is a good shout, not from personal experience but just from what I've read on here of people using them. My starting gambit with them would be do you reckon these skis are shot? Would you touch these bindings? And then explain the issues. But I would have a good think about throwing money at them. It may only be £50/£60 but if they are in bad shape....
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Definite endorsement of the Piste Office. There are good ski shops in in some resorts which may match it - but The Piste office has known quality.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Tirol 164 wrote: |
Resort servicing is for punters on a weeks trip away it doesnt take much to work out what your going to get in a holiday market . |
Yep people working in ski resorts have no idea how to service skis 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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on ski life, for daily drivers, my last pair (volkl mantra ~2009) lasted 7 seasons, typically 50-60 days a season, my current Blizzard Bonafides were bought in 2016 (covid obvs affected) and I get to ski other skis so I'd notice a serious degradation.
I have binned skis as the edges wore out. I do tend to get them fully serviced every couple of "weeks" of use.
On bindings, while "indemnification" is AFAICS a US insurance concept (possibly now anglophone?), and not universally applied outside of NA*, I've had the springs on a pair of Looks disintegrate on me (possibly poor storage) and some shops will quite reasonably refuse to work on old bindings.
I'm not buying the idea that they become convex with wear ..
* I've checked
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Tirol 164 wrote: |
Resort servicing is for punters on a weeks trip away it doesnt take much to work out what your going to get in a holiday market . |
Yep people working in ski resorts have no idea how to service skis |
While they might know how to service skis that also know it's a low margin/high volume job and customers fall into 2 groups:
1. Seasonairs and locals who you see all the time around town (and so who will come back and complain/recommend visitors against you if you do a shitty job).
2. One week punters who don't really know a 'good' service from a 'bad' one and you'll probably never see again.
For the first group you might take a little more care and attention and only do a base grind if absolutly esscential as every grind reduces the life of the ski (less material to remove when they actually need a grind).
For the latter group hand them back waxed and edged skis with evidence of repairs still showing and they will likely complain the bases don't look brand new, so you're better of just chucking it through the machine on a full service.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Mjit, I'm not convinced ...
IME edges wear out well before bases.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Depends what you mean.
If you mean "You'll run out of side edge to file before you run out of base material to grind" then if you're servicing yourself or getting someone to service them that just does what NEEDS to be done you're probably correct.
If you're just giving them to someone who'll wang them through the machine, giving them a full base grind so they look like new when you pick them up you'll run out of base long before sidewall.
Or if you mean "Base edges will receed quicker than base material", well I can only imagin you're filing the base edges, not just the sides with every service!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When you get seriously into off piste it is almost impossible to avoid regularly hitting rocks hidden under the snow. Consequently mending base gouges and scratches is a regular thing and most places doing a mend finish with a grind, which means you don't get get many seasons out of a pair of skis. I regularly do mends myself but I know I don't do them very well and badly need a proper edge sharpen too, which I also do myself normally. Hence my question about places that might go easy on the grind. I am not aiming for ski bases that look like new. Probably after 3 seasons (12 weeks) and a couple of earlier mend/grinds they don't have much left to grind.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Good skis last for ages. My old pair of Lotus 124 are still going strong after 7 years and many ski days and lots of rock hits. Some big core shots, multiple grinds and hardly any base left. I don’t notice any difference
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| snowball wrote: |
| I regularly do mends myself but I know I don't do them very well |
How come? We are just talking ptexing right? You drip it in, let it solidify and scrape it with a metal scraper. What am I missing?
| snowball wrote: |
| and badly need a proper edge sharpen too, which I also do myself normally. |
Again, I am slightly puzzled why they are not sharp. Do you have a sidewall remover. I had problems in the past were the sidewall was interfering with the sharpening? Also what angle do you create. I do all ours with a 3 degree angle. When I started I was doing 1 - and it's not enough IMO/IME.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Tirol 164 wrote: |
Resort servicing is for punters on a weeks trip away it doesnt take much to work out what your going to get in a holiday market . |
Yep people working in ski resorts have no idea how to service skis |
While they might know how to service skis that also know it's a low margin/high volume job and customers fall into 2 groups:
1. Seasonairs and locals who you see all the time around town (and so who will come back and complain/recommend visitors against you if you do a shitty job).
2. One week punters who don't really know a 'good' service from a 'bad' one and you'll probably never see again.
For the first group you might take a little more care and attention and only do a base grind if absolutly esscential as every grind reduces the life of the ski (less material to remove when they actually need a grind).
For the latter group hand them back waxed and edged skis with evidence of repairs still showing and they will likely complain the bases don't look brand new, so you're better of just chucking it through the machine on a full service. |
Well firstly a full service with grind is more expensive than an edge and wax, so you need to decide what you want, which the service guy will advise you on when inspecting the skis. Secondly, how is this different between UK vs Europe? A service guy in resort is servicing a whole lot more skis than any UK shop
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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After damage early on, the bases were mended in resort and ground down considerably. I have tried to do all repairs and service myself since then, though it is hard to know what to do with the multitude of smaller scratches and medium scratches going almost end to end. The bases do look rather tired now. The edges were seriously reduced in the middle of the ski and there isn't a huge amount left after lots of damage and edging. To get them properly sharp in the middle now would need a lot of metal removed. I think my file is rather blunt by now. Off piste this doesn't matter but if I get on an icy piste I really feel it. Consequently my question about someone around London who won't just send off skis to a central servicing point but will actually follow what I request.
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| Tirol 164 wrote: |
| ...Resort servicing is for punters on a weeks trip away it doesnt take much to work out what your[sic] going to get in a holiday market . |
No, that's not right.
If you've personally been unable to get your skis serviced in a resort ... well that's not something I've ever come across in the real world. Perhaps you're doing it wrong?
There's obviously more experience in a resort than you're going to find anywhere else.
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