 Poster: A snowHead
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Recently, I did a mini tour of England. So I thought I'd get some skiing in!
Monday: 3 hours at Tamworth
Review - snow ok but the carpet and travelator removed almost all the wax from my skis!
Tuesday: 3 hours at MK
review - snow ok. Lift tracks are very worn, loads of carpet showing
Wednesday: 2.5 hours at Manchester
Review - snow very good and quite different from the other 2 places.
(I don't go to Castleford any more as the snow is not very good and the ski patrol lets some bad (potentially dangerous) activities happen.)
(I've not been to Hemel yet)
My main whinge about the UK is that the venues are very small compared to the mainland of Europe.
In Belgium they have Snow Valley at Peer with 350 metres main slope.
Only an hour's drive away, Netherlands has Snow World with 400 metres main slope.
The longest we have in the UK is Chill Factore at Manchester with 180 metres main slope.
Why doesn't the UK have a decent, long indoor snow slope? What are we doing wrong?
I know there's a 400 metre slope planned for South Wales but will it have the catchment area?
Has the Sheffield one moved at all? I used to be a regular at the dry slope.
Braehead in Glasgow shut down recently. (In my opinion it was badly sited, Stirling or Perth would have been much better).
So what are people's thoughts?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I think even the indoor slope in Auckland ( well a bit outside of town in Silverdale ) is longer than any indoor slope in the UK.
Price of land, cost/ability to develop a problem here?
Cant really be a demand/pricing thing subject to being in the right place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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UK indoor snow centres are not built on sloping ground, that limits their length. Maybe the South Wales one will be different.
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Plenty of sloping ground around, why wouldn’t they build there if ideal to be sloped rather than on not sloped ground.
But isn’t Hemel on a (albeit short) slope?
And if they wanted flat land sloped just pile up some earth?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Tamworth is built on a slope. Sheffield dry slope was built on a big hill.
I remember Tamworth opening.
The whole 'thing' behind building an indoor snow arena is that you use the surplus heat to keep a water based sports area going.
This is what I understood to be the economics behind the energy use.
Pump the excess heat somewhere that it's needed.
You get losses as nothing is 100% efficient. But the energy factor is not as bad as you might think.
And the UK has some HUGE indoor freezer warehouses that seem to get along pretty well at minus 30 degrees.
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We were at Tamworth on Monday, my daughter complained the 'ski's were broken' as it felt like they had 'brakes on the back'...that's indoor snow for you I guess, I doubt the skis were broken but then again they would n't have had a molecule of wax on them.
The travellator makes you feel like a potato on a conveyor belt..on the way to be chipped.
Instructors trying to teach my other daughter how to snowboard were hopeless..
Other than that, was quite fun..but might save my money for the real slopes in future.
Shippo
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The planned slope in South Wales is (hopefully) to be built on the side of a hill next to Merthyr Tydfil.
https://www.rhydycarwest.com/
I think it would have the catchment area. Cardiff with 360k+ people is a 30 minute drive away, Bristol with a 450k+ population is just over an hour away. People drive from all the South West to indoor slopes, who would presumably go here instead. Plus you've got all the people in Herefordshire, Gloucestershire etc who would be within a 90 minute drive.
I'm all for it, but that's partly due to home when we lived in the UK being just over an hour away.
Of the current locations Manchester is my favourite, due to the size. Snow quality I found similar at Hemel, but Hemel gets super busy being so close to London.
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Landgraaf and Amnéville are just simple sheds built on brownfield slopes, there isn't the same cooling system under the snow that is used in most UK centres except Tamworth, the ground was just frozen then snow blown on top of it.
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| Shipjack wrote: |
We were at Tamworth on Monday, my daughter complained the 'ski's were broken' as it felt like they had 'brakes on the back'...that's indoor snow for you I guess, I doubt the skis were broken but then again they would n't have had a molecule of wax on them.
The travellator makes you feel like a potato on a conveyor belt..on the way to be chipped.
Instructors trying to teach my other daughter how to snowboard were hopeless..
Other than that, was quite fun..but might save my money for the real slopes in future.
Shippo |
My own skis were no more than 3 hours indoor skiing from their annual service.
At the end of the Tamworth session they were pretty much waxless!
I think it would have been more efficient to take the skis off and carry them back up.
The next day at Milton Keynes, I used my 'best' skis as I wanted to see what they felt like.
They were even better seeing as how my other skis were slow as f***!
I wonder what waxing goes on for the hire skis?
My verdict after my week was: never going back to Tamworth again!
Going to travel slightly further and try Hemel rather than MK next time I'm down that way.
Manchester is the best value, especially Wednesday mornings which gives you 2.5 hours for £25 from 07:30 to 10am.
I live in Aberdeenshire within 2 hours of Cairngorm so I'm hoping the funicular is going to be ready and we get some early snow.
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I’ll definitely go to the Merthyr one from Oxfordshire. Takes about 2.5 hours from my gaff to Swansea, so Merthyr will be about 2 hours.
I’m an hour from either MK or HH, and the most I can bear to ski at those two is 2 hours. I’d much rather make a full day of it with a slightly longer drive
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The answer to all these questions is: money.
FWIW, a quick search found a few in the US. One in New Jersey would cost you $39 for two hours with your gear, or $65 with their rental gear.
In the 70's in Seattle we had indoor skiing on an inclined conveyor belt made of carpet. Funky but still the best way to get in ski-shape I've ever done. They're still doing it at the Mini-Mountain in Bellevue. I should go over there for old time's sake.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Deveron53, Unfortunately, Sheffield closed in 2012, after an arson attack on the main building, that was not adequately insured. 
The City Council chose not to fund a replacement as the indoor slope at Castleford had recently opened, and taken a large slice of their catchment area.
Shame as it was the longest dry slope in Europe when it opened.
It was on an old industrial site. Not sure what had been there, but there were some areas just outside the perimeter where they could have built some very challenging runs.
They did look at a plan to cover it over at one stage and use real snow, but I think the technology was fairly new and comparatively expensive to run on uninsulated ground.
I worked there as a "volunteer ski patrol" for 3 years in the early 90's, skiing 5-6 hours every weekend of the winter, and was able to ski for free whenever I wanted throughout the year. My technique has never been as good since.
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I was in HH last Sunday and I was impressed with the facilities, layout, quality of the snow, instructors
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You know it makes sense.
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@Scooter in Seattle, we have/had carpets here - absolutely crap (IMHO)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| swskier wrote: |
The planned slope in South Wales is (hopefully) to be built on the side of a hill next to Merthyr Tydfil.
https://www.rhydycarwest.com/
I think it would have the catchment area. Cardiff with 360k+ people is a 30 minute drive away, Bristol with a 450k+ population is just over an hour away. People drive from all the South West to indoor slopes, who would presumably go here instead. Plus you've got all the people in Herefordshire, Gloucestershire etc who would be within a 90 minute drive.
I'm all for it, but that's partly due to home when we lived in the UK being just over an hour away.
Of the current locations Manchester is my favourite, due to the size. Snow quality I found similar at Hemel, but Hemel gets super busy being so close to London. |
I really think this new development will have a lot of appeal for ski clubs and coaches too. Most U.K. clubs have at least one annual trip to Landgraaf (or the other long one can’t remember its name). This slope probably negates the need to head there.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
UK indoor snow centres are not built on sloping ground, that limits their length
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Peer in Belgium is 350m and is on flat land. The slope is built on columns that are in the open air. The main slope is used by race teams from all over Europe. When we were there we were sharing the facility with clubs from the Tarrentaise and Mauriene valley as well as the British men's slalom squad. I cannot imagine the demand for such a high level training facility in the UK.
I read somewhere that it is only the bottom 50 metres of dryslopes that makes a profit. The same could probably be said for indoor slopes. Hence there is no incentive for longer slopes
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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At a guess it's our appalling planning system in the UK that prevents a whole load of cool stuff being built. There were plans for an indoor slope at a disused cement works at Shoreham near Brighton (which would have been rad as it's mad there aren't any in the south east) but it got canned due to 'concerns about increased traffic' despite it being 100 metres off the main A27 dual carriageway
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Been discussed on here for years.
And it's always the same conclusions.
UK indoor slopes suck to the max.
Too short, too flat, too pricey.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
I read somewhere that it is only the bottom 50 metres of dryslopes that makes a profit. The same could probably be said for indoor slopes. Hence there is no incentive for longer slopes |
Sorry, must be being a bit dense but whats the meaning here?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ster wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
I read somewhere that it is only the bottom 50 metres of dryslopes that makes a profit. The same could probably be said for indoor slopes. Hence there is no incentive for longer slopes |
Sorry, must be being a bit dense but whats the meaning here? |
Beginners, lessons, instructors, sleds, families, food, drink.
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@ster, I guess that those are the bits that see most use, i.e lesson groups. Once people reach a certain level then they're possibly less likely to hit indoor slopes?
Merthyr is more likely to see me than Hemel, especially if I could combine with a weekend away and a day on the bike/at Bike Park Wales....but it would still only be once every year or two. Where I wonder if it would be profitable is that not many will be heading there straight from work during the week
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I’ve always wondered why there isn’t one south of London. Plenty of people in the catchment. I’m also slightly biased as it’s a bit of a trek from south London to Hemel.
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| hammerite wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
The planned slope in South Wales is (hopefully) to be built on the side of a hill next to Merthyr Tydfil.
https://www.rhydycarwest.com/
I think it would have the catchment area. Cardiff with 360k+ people is a 30 minute drive away, Bristol with a 450k+ population is just over an hour away. People drive from all the South West to indoor slopes, who would presumably go here instead. Plus you've got all the people in Herefordshire, Gloucestershire etc who would be within a 90 minute drive.
I'm all for it, but that's partly due to home when we lived in the UK being just over an hour away.
Of the current locations Manchester is my favourite, due to the size. Snow quality I found similar at Hemel, but Hemel gets super busy being so close to London. |
I really think this new development will have a lot of appeal for ski clubs and coaches too. Most U.K. clubs have at least one annual trip to Landgraaf (or the other long one can’t remember its name). This slope probably negates the need to head there. |
My thoughts too, plus will negate the need for the GB mens team to spend 5 weeks of their summer in Belgium, and you could get the other alpine squads, Europa Cup, FIS, Juniors etc in there too.
It has the potential to seriously harm the local dry slopes and potentially kill them off.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Depends if they keep the dry slope championships
You have to ski on plastic to be good enough to win on plastic
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We (me, wife + 2 kids) live in MK. We've never used the fridge.
It has it's uses but we are more off pisters.
I can see that for race teams a longer slope would be better but as stated about for most punters and commercially it doesn't make much sense.
I did a few lessons on dry at Swadlincote and a couple of sessions at Hemel before it became a fridge. Can't see the fun in it once you've learnt and can do trips to the mountains. Better to save up your money and holidays and use it there IMO. But for learning, racers, drillers, fitness maybe, a bit of fun, I can see the uses.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Surprised no ones mentioned Bottram? Just north of Dusseldorf.
THE longest indoor snow slope in Europe. 650 metres. Also has a roller bob sleigh for addded fun.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| I was in HH last Sunday and I was impressed with the facilities, layout, quality of the snow, instructors |
That's good to hear as one of my sprogs OHs has a learn to ski day there next week - thought it was decent value for under £100, although that's pre pre season discounted. Certainly much cheaper than the learn to snowboard day at MK last year, but perhaps skiing will suit them better...
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You know it makes sense.
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If you want to go longer there is
SnowWorld Amnéville
"There are 2 slopes for you to enjoy at SnowWorld Amnéville: one especially for children, beginners and tobogganing, the other for experienced skiers and snowboarders. The slope for those with experience is 620 metres long and has 2 difficulty levels: blue and red. The temperature on the slopes is wintry (around -5°), so remember to wrap up warmly!"
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ratechaser wrote: |
| Mike Pow wrote: |
| I was in HH last Sunday and I was impressed with the facilities, layout, quality of the snow, instructors |
That's good to hear as one of my sprogs OHs has a learn to ski day there next week - thought it was decent value for under £100, although that's pre pre season discounted. Certainly much cheaper than the learn to snowboard day at MK last year, but perhaps skiing will suit them better... |
The group I was photographing were 8 'never ever' adults on a 'ski-in-a-day' programme
The instructor Philip Miles was excellent and had all of them making controlled wedge turns from about half way up the learner area by the end of the session
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Poster: A snowHead
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@johnE, oddly when you just google SnowWorld Amnéville it shows a sentence that says:
"SnowWorld Amnéville offers no less than 540 metres of slopes, various catering options, equipment rental and of course the best conditions."
But when you go in to their website it says as you describe.
I wonder if the 620 metres is the combination of the beginners slope plus the main slope?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@johnE, ta
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@johnE, Correct. Wasn't sure of the spelling. Been many years since I was there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
It has the potential to seriously harm the local dry slopes and potentially kill them off.
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The leisure trust that owns pontypool seems to be doing that themselves, which is a shame because its a great dryslope
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@thelivingmountain, I haven't been there, but they've just had new matting installed no? Although I think their race team have been training at Gloucester recently.
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@swskier, As far as I know the lift is not working at Ponty - not sure about new matting, the race team have been training elsewhere.
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| Layne wrote: |
We (me, wife + 2 kids) live in MK. We've never used the fridge.
It has it's uses but we are more off pisters.
I can see that for race teams a longer slope would be better but as stated about for most punters and commercially it doesn't make much sense.
I did a few lessons on dry at Swadlincote and a couple of sessions at Hemel before it became a fridge. Can't see the fun in it once you've learnt and can do trips to the mountains. Better to save up your money and holidays and use it there IMO. But for learning, racers, drillers, fitness maybe, a bit of fun, I can see the uses. |
I did a learn to ski course at MK many years ago when my OH eventually talked me into trying out skiing.
Since then we spent a few years practically living there as Jnr was part of the race team and trained 2-3 times a week. We’ve skied Landgraaf too as a family, but Jnr has been there lots either training or racing. Longer slopes have their place. There’s the possibility that a long indoor slope in the U.K. could get FIS certified like the slope at Landgraaf.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would have thought a long indoor course would have happened by now if it were viable ? Perhaps there is just not the money anymore here to construct it or afford to ski there ?
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It's not clear to me why the folk wanting that would pay more for it.
I like dry slopes' longer runs, but the cost of that is obviously much less. I think it's simply a business case issue: we'd all like more, but probably not enough to pay more.
Your speed could be much higher with easy slope and more length; control is already required for the existing UK slopes. Straight liners would like more length; most folk at an indoor slope, not so much.
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