This is not an epic btw … really, a few km from the car, plenty of food, two foot deep snow with snowshoes. That’s just a walk back to the car park….
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am serious. And don’t call me Shirley!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Too long did not watch all. But dude seems to be a bit of a prick. What does he think the SOS button does but contact local SAR (whoever administers it). And getting into a text argument with your rescuers doesn't seem a great idea. Less time congratulating himself on being a great outdoorsman and more time planning and monitoring for snowpack seems like a good idea.
A brief google finds plenty of others who think he's just a narcisistic douche too.
@Dave of the Marmottes, did you speed it up to take account of the drawl? Double speed is pretty easy for most American speakers, faster if they come from the south. Though tbh I don't think you missed much, he did seem to overlook the water situation, and also the mountain in the middle of his hike
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
On the face of it, they should have tied him in a stretcher and dragged him back with a bow-wave of snow breaking over his head, then charged him for the call out. Then laughed at him online, the dick. He had enough time and energy to video his trip, but not enough to look after himself? There appeared to be no cause to his "need for rescue" - he looked fine to me, he could have simply waled out, and eventually he did.
His interactions seem odd. He seemed to want to be helicoptered out, which he clearly didn't need, and which isn't something the victim gets to decide. Half a mile is what, a thousand meters? He could have crawled out. Perhaps he just wanted to make a YouTube video, or thought he'd bought the service when he picked up the InReach and wanted to get his money's worth? I think I may have mutinied and actually left him where he was.
His excuse was that you don't want to wait until it's too late before you call for help... which is true, but you're also supposed to rank all your options and pick the best one assuming your goal is to complete what you started, not get a heli ride.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
But he had the premium Garmin subscription! For $50 per month I'm expecting a Heli rescue when I've walked a few miles and decide I'm too tired to walk up to the road right next to where I'm camping some serious entitlement, frankly he should be apologetic and embarrassed.
A few takeaways:
- the guy has no idea what he's doing. There's no way it should have escalated to needing to push the SOS button. Simply hike out the way you came in or hike up to the road. You don't need to be able to see the trail, you have snowshoes just make your own track.
- people massively overestimate the Garmin SOS button. It's not going to trigger some SAS recuse op. It's also not an insurance program.
- Probably a little unprofessional by the local sheriff putting his name on Facebook. However, looks like their report was completely factual and they are probably annoyed with idiots wasting their time.
- The number of these cases are only going to increase. A lot of unprepared people with no experience, but all the tech, are doing more outdoor stuff.
After all it is free
After all it is free
phil_w wrote:
His interactions seem odd. He seemed to want to be helicoptered out, which he clearly didn't need, and which isn't something the victim gets to decide.
Some of the advertising doesn't help with this.. There's an Apple advert that seems to imply that their new (Geos supported I think) service will get you a military helicopter in the middle of the night.. edit: (This one http://youtube.com/v/f0hwB7JTMcE )
In Canada almost all helicopters are Visual Flight Rules only so if it's dark or foggy then you're out of luck. I know this because I broke my shoulder in the Rockies backcountry at 4pm on a -20C day; we had a sat phone but was told it was too late in the day for evac and so I shuffled for 5 hours, in considerable pain, in the dark and cold until we got to a place where the rescue sled could meet me.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm not sure it's $50 per month. My Garmin InReach is CDN $15/month.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
I shuffled for 5 hours, in considerable pain, in the dark and cold until we got to a place where the rescue sled could meet me.
Ouch
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@boarder2020, ...I feel that the abuse which may arise from Sat devices could really bog down rescue services - many of whom give their time gratis.
A new approach.
'Yes we are selling a lot of these...expensive but very good.
Well you have paid for your Garmin Inreach...here's your receipt
Please just tick the 'rights and use' box.
Just before you can take it you need to fill out the following questionnaire'.
1 are you an incompetent egotist Y/N
2 have you spent far less time in the hills than you say you have Y/N
3 do you have gear and no idea Y/N
4 are you a complete fool Y/N
5 do you think that you are wonderful and everyone else is wrong Y/N
6 facetted crystals are A earrings B transformed snow C whisky glasses
7 a col is A a man called colin B a pissed man asking for a drink C a low pass between mountain peaks
8 considering your answers to 1-5 above, would you say that you have an absolute right to press the SOS button when you feel a bit tired or scared Y/N
'Well you seem to have answered YES to quite a few of these....in fact all of them and your answers to 6 and 7 were bizarre (there is no option D).
'That means you forfeit the right to a Garmin InREach device..'
'Whaaat?...I want my money back
'Nope....you ticked the 'my rights' box and the text clearly says that idiots will be prevented from causing chaos and get neither their money back nor the device'.
'Oh hang on ... you can have this latest model ...it's AI enabled and monitors how stupid you are being, and refuses to call the emergency services if you are a complete toss+r...have fun in the hills'
'And with the new device there's a free gift, here's your free lottery entry for tickets to this year's Darwin Awards ... good luck on the hill...'
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I have a few mates who work search and rescue. It’s free in nz regardless of who you are or where you are from and usually requires a heli because of how remote everything is.
They have a list of repeat customers who activate beacons for pointless reasons - tired, ran out of beer, late home, no beds in the hut etc etc. they still have to go get them and all they can do is bring them out and give them an educational chat.
I had an interesting one two weeks ago where we used a inreach to advise that we were delayed and stuck with bad weather pushing rivers high, but safe.
Normally that would trigger a search if no comms, and in those circumstances if using a PLB it’s better to trigger it to prevent the search happening without a location. A good example of where an inreach is a good thing to have, although lots of times I would prefer to be using a traditional PLB. I often carry both.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The guys video was seriously odd, one moment he's trapped... the next he can walk out? Almost feels like he was trying to create some content and a big rescue/chopper would've been great for views.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:
so I shuffled for 5 hours, in considerable pain, in the dark and cold until we got to a place where the rescue sled could meet me.
For silk road mountain race we were given inreachs but told only press the SOS in a life or death situation. Anything else you'd be paying a fee for rescue as it's up to you to work it out I get it though, you are potentially taking away a rescue from someone in more need.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@damanpunk, more or less spot on - doing it for views on his YouTube channel, I didn't even click on it having seen people's comments here!
I hate the subscription model, in that you can't choose to cancel it for a few months as far as I know, but if that's not the case anymore please shout!
I keep thinking of binning it, but then I know what will happen
I only really need it for one area where comms are bad, and I do go there on my own a fair bit, so I text the OH letting her know when I start, transition and finish.
Plus in other sectors, if I should witness a big slide that takes people out, should I press the button rather than fanny around calling Rescue Services etc
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Weathercam wrote:
Plus in other sectors, if I should witness a big slide that takes people out, should I press the button rather than fanny around calling Rescue Services etc
I would say yes, that's an acceptable use case. Presumably you would end up connected to the same service anyway, but it might be faster and has supplied your location at the outset? I have an SOS app on my phone that essentially does the same thing, but I think it only works in Tirol (it's a local app for local people...). The advice is to hit the button and then you will be connected to the local service, but in most cases they're going to want to speak to someone on the ground before dispatch anyway.
My phone has satellite capability, but I've never thought of it as more that providing comms when I'm out of signal range (not that common for me, most places I go are pretty well connected). The fine for misuse of rescue services is about €3000, though I'm not totally clear on the definition of misuse – a friend helped out two young lads who had overestimated their abilities on a Klettersteig. She seemed to think they would have risked a fine had they called it in.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Weathercam wrote:
I have a love-hate relationship with my InReach.
I hate the subscription model, in that you can't choose to cancel it for a few months as far as I know, but if that's not the case anymore please shout!
You need the InReach Freedom Plan, where you pay only for the months you use, in addition to an annual (£50?) "Freedom fee".
Obviously the individual months are more per month than the annual package; I think breakeven is 6-8months.
I only use mine for multi-week trips (I think my record is 19days with zero conventional mobile signal), where the freedom plan works really well. I go all-you-can-eat for the duration, then switch it off again for another year or 2.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Weathercam wrote:
@damanpunk, more or less spot on - doing it for views on his YouTube channel, I didn't even click on it having seen people's comments here!
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I can picture his intended video, starting with the "I'm going to die in this tent" shot and ending with the rescue helicopter wishing him away to safety shot he imagined would happen.
I've got friends in various UK mountain rescue teams and some of the stories of under prepared/equipped people they have to go out to are scary (they'd be funny if it wasn't so serious).
I've got friends in various UK mountain rescue teams and some of the stories of under prepared/equipped people they have to go out to are scary (they'd be funny if it wasn't so serious).
It's worth remembering that the idiot calls remain very much the minority, and most MRT would much rather you called early, than called late.
https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incident-details/ makes interesting reading - the vast majority of callouts on here are real. Contrary to popular belief, there's not many tired tourists in flipflops calling for a chopper. Fortunately no reported youtubers desperate for clicks either.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
snowdave wrote:
It's worth remembering that the idiot calls remain very much the minority, and most MRT would much rather you called early, than called late.
Of course and the flip-flop/sari/hand drawn map/no map/no kit but a phone/etc are all potentially serious.
The two guys (fell runners according to their wives who called it in) lost in low cloud (less than a mile from a pub if they just followed the path they were on) deserves retelling.
When found, they were stood shivering in just their trainers and y-fronts
MTR..."Where the are your clothes?".
Runner... "We were getting cold so made a fire with them and our back-pack"
It burnt really well for about 30seconds
They were walked out still under dressed past the pub.
Also how did 5 foot of snow suddenly become 2 foot?! I can't believe people are siding with him in his comments, brain dead.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As an International Mountain Leader, or Accompagnateur en montagne here in France. The text of the law says I must have adequate means of communication in case of an accident.
When doing a course with the PGHM in Modane (near the Fejus tunnel) we questioned what this exactly was.
You need to be able to talk to the rescue services so they can send an appropriate response. In areas with good phone coverage, a phone is ok. Beyond that, in my Case the Tour du Mont Blanc and Haute route. A VHF radio programmed to Chanel E or Sat Phone - Not a box with an emergency button, not an I phone with a promissed sat phone mode.
In Switzerland the same rulles apply, if memory serves Italy is fussy by region
For an individual you are not constrained by the rulles of a Mountain Professional, but it's worth knowing what they are.
As for the idiot in the video, in most if not all european countries he would be in rather hot water....expensive hot water.....In France for example the fine is a minimum of the cost of the unnessaary rescue - 50K or there abouts
After all it is free
After all it is free
I've been a SAR volunteer and done some MRT here in UK, ski patroller. I've used the SOS on my Spot twice in the last probably 14 years - both time for other people. One cardiac arrest and no phone signal, no PLB so was best option while someone went somewhere with coverage to speak to Police/MRT and we could triangulate a response with the Spot assistance centre. Second one was broken femur plus some head injuries and again no phone coverage in France. Both times casualty was evacuated in reasonably short order relative to where they were. So they have some use but to me it's a break glass, life or death or significant risk situation only. Not because you need a better video
My observation is there are a lot more people in the outdoors post-pandemic, which is a good thing. Many have a lack of basic understanding of safety and preparation. I've had situations here in the Pentlands with runners in basically not a lot on the tops freezing cold carrying no gear, mate rolls their ankle and all of them are baltic in minutes. I'm still waiting for my jacket and top to be returned 2 years later from one of them....but as said idiot calls are the minority and we should be thankful we can do some basic training to understand a map and compass, take some kit and not be afraid to turn back. Now influencers, there's another topic ....
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I still feel a bit embarrassed about the time I did call mountain rescue. Though at the time having slipped on a wet slab while returning I either had a fractured pelvis or a trapped nerve giving pain equivalent to a fractured pelvis so reasoned it was unwise to risk aggravating my situation more by attempting self rescue.
Fortunately turned out to be the latter.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
The solution should be to have a court injunction to have the guy banned from youtube for 5 years
Cut off their income stream from misuse. That should teach them a (expensive) lesson.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Dave of the Marmottes, can't believe I get grief for having my passport nicked, while you're out here ringing calling mountain rescue emergency because you forgot how to stand up.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@abc, that is a great idea!
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I suspect those is what he imagined would happen when he pressed SOS...
I shuffled for 5 hours, in considerable pain, in the dark and cold until we got to a place where the rescue sled could meet me.
Ouch
Pffff! 5 hours?
He should read "Touching the Void".
(I'm sure it was very unpleasant)
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
snowdave wrote:
adithorp wrote:
I've got friends in various UK mountain rescue teams and some of the stories of under prepared/equipped people they have to go out to are scary (they'd be funny if it wasn't so serious).
It's worth remembering that the idiot calls remain very much the minority, and most MRT would much rather you called early, than called late.
https://ogwen-rescue.org.uk/incident-details/ makes interesting reading - the vast majority of callouts on here are real. Contrary to popular belief, there's not many tired tourists in flipflops calling for a chopper. Fortunately no reported youtubers desperate for clicks either.
This.
Someone at work volunteered with mountain rescue. The general attitude was call them asap, because they would far rather go out and do an unplanned training exercise in the middle of the day than get called out after dark because someone decided they could self rescue for a 'minor' injury and discovered that doubling travel time meant they couldn't get down before sunset and now:
1. Can't see the path (so have gone from a minor twisted ankle to broken bones having fallen off).
2. Are now risking hypothermia because temperature has dropped, it has started raining, and there waterproofs aren't good enough for that (even if perfectly fine for normal hiking)
3. Are a lot harder to find and rescue because mountain rescue can't see them either.
On reminders to have decent kit because it can go wrong, I know a ski instructor/mountain guide, who tells a story that in bad weather they were woken up the next morning by the hut 'manager' because once the weather cleared there emergency shelter was visible from the hut door...
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
adithorp wrote:
I suspect those is what he imagined would happen when he pressed SOS...
Wow - 1964 - I don’t remember it at all !
Other than from a 24-hour Thunderbird-a-thon film showing at uni in the mid-1980’s - only waking up for the later showings for exactly that sequence
Scarlet wrote:
My phone has satellite capability, but I've never thought of it as more that providing comms when I'm out of signal range (not that common for me, most places I go are pretty well connected)
A mile or two from here one hits the Shropshire not-spots, and my brother has no network connectivity in NW Scottish village. So is that an iPhone with built-in satellite connectivity?
Quote:
The fine for misuse of rescue services is about €3000, though I'm not totally clear on the definition of misuse – a friend helped out two young lads who had overestimated their abilities on a Klettersteig. She seemed to think they would have risked a fine had they called it in.
Not aware of any fine, or indeed any charge at all, for mountain/sea rescue in the UK? Whether there’s a policy on taking the p!ss is another question…
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Dylan_T42 wrote:
A mile or two from here one hits the Shropshire not-spots, and my brother has no network connectivity in NW Scottish village. So is that an iPhone with built-in satellite connectivity?
Yes, it is a feature of the latest iPhones that you can contact emergency services via satellite. It isn’t a sat phone though, so someone who needs to be remotely connected in non-emergency situations would still need a dedicated device.
Quote:
Not aware of any fine, or indeed any charge at all, for mountain/sea rescue in the UK? Whether there’s a policy on taking the p!ss is another question…
No, there is no charge in the UK, but the funding model is different. However, they do retain the right to ridicule you (anonymously) on social media if you are an idiot.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Scarlet wrote:
Dylan_T42 wrote:
A mile or two from here one hits the Shropshire not-spots, and my brother has no network connectivity in NW Scottish village. So is that an iPhone with built-in satellite connectivity?
Yes, it is a feature of the latest iPhones that you can contact emergency services via satellite. It isn’t a sat phone though, so someone who needs to be remotely connected in non-emergency situations would still need a dedicated device.
FYI - Apple announced that with the release of iOS18 next year users with satellite SOS capable iPhones will be able to send non-emergency, personal text messages to other users. I believe it will be free to do this (at least to start). This could be a gamechanger for anyone who enjoys wilderness exploration and has had to rely on InReach or SPOT devices for emergency SOS.
@Tom_Ski, nice move by apple. I’d imagine that for most people, this eliminates the need for an Inreach. From my perspective, the battery life advantages of the inreach (particularly if it’s regularly pinging breadcrumbs every 10-30 mins) might keep it going for a bit longer but it feels like the writing is on the wall.
Zoenini
Zoenini Guest
Quick Question everyone, what could make my browser act up and not show the 3 videos in this thread? It rarely happens and Hate it
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
some serious entitlement, frankly he should be apologetic and embarrassed.
Ouch
are your clothes?".
