They don't look particularly bad - about par for the course on a popular mountain with limited summit windows. Nobody is climbing Everest for a remote summit experience.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I read an article that said Nepal issued 419 licenses for Everest this year, and due to a weather window 200 (!!) climbers were attempting the same day last week.
426 permits issued for this year. Looks like there will be around 600 summits (not all foreigners issued permits summit and you have add on all the Sherpa summits). Last year was 478 permits and 656 summits. So numbers seem down slightly.
Thought there might be a bump this year as permits are currently $11,000, but reported to increase to $15k next year. Quite a saving. Also quite a cash cow for the Nepali government!
Dawa Finjok Sherpa made 3 summits in 8 days this year. Phunjo Jhangmu Lama broke women's record 14.5 hours from base camp to summit. Piotr Krzyżowski solo self supported no o2 Everest and Lhotse in a single push. The pampered commercial expedition tourists do may it look hard
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
According to Google 12,000 people have reached the summit of Everest. I wonder how many hills in the UK have had fewer visitors than that
@Peter S, 12,000 is total summits, not number of people. Which I think is around half - as pointed out above some Sherpas will do 2 summits in a year, and many do multiple seasons. Kami Rita Sherpa has 30 alone!
I think about 7500 people have registered that they've done all the munroes, so perhaps unlikely. Of course you can probably find some remote little mound somewhere, but hardly seems comparable.
For some context national trust says 250,000 climb scafell pike per year, Matterhorn has around 3000 per year, not sure on the situation with Mt Blanc now, but in the past 200 per day during high season was not uncommon.
So Everest summiter is still rather an exclusive club. Well certainly outside Khumbu at least. I once met a monk in Thame with a very fancy red north face jacket with adventure consults Everest expedition on it. Commented on it and asked him if he worked on the expedition. He said no it was his dad's, who summited but didn't fancy keeping the jacket as a souvenir because he doesn't like red So many of their village has worked on Everest it's not considered a particularly interesting achievement. I actually stayed in a teahouse owned by Kami Rita Sherpas family there, at the time he had over 20 summits already which I guess puts in perspective the villages idea that a summit wasn't overly impressive.
How impressive is an Everest summit where the Sherpa's do all the hard work and you use oxygen? How much is the "exclusivity" just due to an incredibly high cost? I'll let others decide for themselves.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
My understanding is that they will carry your bottles for you depending on how much you pay. But perhaps that's no skin off my nose either way.
I rode with a guy who bagged it this season. I was initially unimpressed, but eventually it transpired he was actually a climber, not just rich. I was a bit surprised he'd bothered with it, but then I remembered that, not the real climbs around there he'd done. Even if I'm unimpressed with badges, it's still a badge. Each to their own and all that. He was a good skier and even able to follow the odd snowboarder line
After all it is free
After all it is free
I used to climb with a bloke who has now summited 18 times! However, it costs him nowt as he's an IFMGA guide.
And I heard an interview with Sir Onward Christian Bonnington recently where he said he wouldn't bother with Everest if he was a young mountaineer - he'd concentrate on far cheaper and more exciting unclimbed 5-6000m Himalayan summits.
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Yeah I think that's very much the climber's perspective. No shortage of places to go. I once met Bonnington, actually on Malbogies.
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Those 3 vids show before and after the Everest summit-cornice broke (this week).
@phil_w, try carry everything. The Sherpa's arrive before the "clients". They set up a route through the icefall and maintain it all season. They then fix the entire route with ropes and carry everything up to build the camps. Many have a private Sherpa on summit day that carries their oxygen and short ropes them if necessary. Plus they are all using oxygen, which in the views of many negates a real summit anyway as much easier.
Quote:
if he was a young mountaineer - he'd concentrate on far cheaper and more exciting unclimbed 5-6000m Himalayan summits.
I agree with the sentiment. Although why even deal with the Nepali Himalaya, far too much red tape and fees thanks to the government trying to line their pockets. (Visa at least $50, maybe $125 for a longer stay, peak fees $250+ per peak per person, national park entry $20, plus the flights got really expensive because Kathmandu is one of the most expensive airport in the worlds for airlines to fly into/out of due to greedy government insane taxing). Go to the pamirs and Tian Shan where there is an abundance of excellent remote unclimbed peaks and there's no fees (other than maybe a $20 border permit you can just get online).
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The videos are insane and sad. I do wonder what the point is, all an awful long way from Reinhold Messner climbing from the north side solo with no one else nearby or Pete Boardman and Joe Tasker's doomed effort on the north east ridge. Also an awful long way from the original point of climbing a mountain, even the very small ones found in England.
@Leonard Smalls, I assume you are referring to Kenton Cool?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Not sure more people's lives should be risked for this. If you decide to take this on there is a non zero chance you wont make it back and all the money in the world wont change that!
Not sure more people's lives should be risked for this. If you decide to take this on there is a non zero chance you wont make it back and all the money in the world wont change that!
Nobody is forcing them to do it. There are much more dangerous mountains (summit:death ratio), you just don't hear about deaths on them like you do Everest, which is having a more deadly than average season. There are plenty of deaths on Mt Blanc each year too, plenty on ski pistes also. Yes, way more people participating so risk is lower, but it's also "non zero". Don't see why consenting adults that understand their risks should be stopped from doing anything they choose.
Climbers want to say the stood on the highest point on earth. Sherpas want the big salaries - they can earn much more on the mountain than elsewhere. They all know it's not 100% safe.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@boarder2020, Understand all that just find the fund raising thing just so more people can risk their lives looking for already dead folk rather distasteful. The likes of Reinhold Messner & Chris Bonnington, Tenzing & Hilary understood the risks but didnt expect a helicopter rescue!
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munich_irish wrote:
@Leonard Smalls, I assume you are referring to Kenton Cool?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@munich_irish, agree about fundraising. If you are having to crowdfund a rescue party either your insurance wasn't good enough or the insurance (probably rightly) is not willing to fund a rescue because the chances of them being found alive are almost zero.
Same view for trying to bring bodies down. Yes, I get that some of the families want it and for some there is religious reasons for wanting a certain type of funeral. But no point risking lives for a dead body.
@boarder2020, On the bodies issue apparently the Nepalese authorities now mandate that bodies must not be left on the mountain either buried (very difficult to do at altitude) or more practically bought down to base camp for burial there or further down. How well this particular ordinance, like many others, is abided by is unknown.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Peter S wrote:
According to Google 12,000 people have reached the summit of Everest. I wonder how many hills in the UK have had fewer visitors than that
That is a pretty interesting question
To get an idea : Only 7K people have done all the munros. And just 859 have completed the corbetts.
If I had to *guess* not many more than 10-20K will have ever climbed A' Mhaighdean (the most remote munro).
Far fewer will have been up something like Ben Aden (very remote Corbett at the end of Loch Quioch).
If you wanted to get obscure then some of the sea stacks such as Old Man of Hoy have seen 1.6K recorded ascents.
Which is far fewer than Everest.
@munich_irish, agree about fundraising. If you are having to crowdfund a rescue party either your insurance wasn't good enough or the insurance (probably rightly) is not willing to fund a rescue because the chances of them being found alive are almost zero.
What insurance? Nobody is coming to get you. If you get into trouble, the team has to self rescue. Source: my mate who summited with a very experienced and reliable Swiss team, but no insurance.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Scarlet wrote:
boarder2020 wrote:
@munich_irish, agree about fundraising. If you are having to crowdfund a rescue party either your insurance wasn't good enough or the insurance (probably rightly) is not willing to fund a rescue because the chances of them being found alive are almost zero.
What insurance? Nobody is coming to get you. If you get into trouble, the team has to self rescue. Source: my mate who summited with a very experienced and reliable Swiss team, but no insurance.
Nearly all rescues end up involving a helicopter. There have been a number of very public spats between operators and insurance companies. SST got burned for over $40k by Global Rescue, because they didn't seek authorisation for the evacuation. So no surprise when somebody needed rescuing on Annapurna SST refused to help until GR signed it off. They dragged their feet and it could have cost a life. You can read about it here:
I'm not aware of any commercial expedition that allows their clients to climb without any insurance. Even if you assume your team (and it's often other climbers that happen to be on the mountain rather than your own team assisting you) can carry you down to base camp you will need a Heli to get you from there to hospital.
From Alan arnette website:
"Most guide companies on the Nepal side will require at least evacuation insurance, and most require medical coverage. One of the best investments you can make is to add trip cancellation to the policy, but it’s expensive. In both 2014 and 2015, when the Everest season ended early, those with trip cancellation/interruption coverage had 100% of their trip expenses reimbursed, some as high as $45,000."
Perhaps insurance worth it just for trip cancellation aspect!
After all it is free
After all it is free
boarder2020 wrote:
Dawa Finjok Sherpa made 3 summits in 8 days this year.
I always wondered Robrars ethnic name.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
It's not the mountain that frightens me (well, much), it's the other people (much more). I really don't understand why you would do it to yourself. Where's the fun in queueing - you might as well join the queue outside the Swatch shop on Oxford St when a new watch is launched.
Each to his own, of course. There was a chap at University who (said he) had climbed it - and had lost the tips of two of his fingers to frostbite.
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Everest is great for bragging rights.
When I get to the top, I'm better than you.
King of the castle.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I wanted to see lines where people had skied off the top of Everest. Instead I got queues.
Gutted ;p
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
motdoc wrote:
I wanted to see lines where people had skied off the top of Everest. Instead I got queues.
Gutted ;p
Climbing up, and skiing down, K2, the world's toughest mountain, up and down ice, up and down rock, without oxygen, at 28k ft, as high as a commercial airplane, a whisker from Everest, in 2020, is the classic of the genre.
The greatest physical achievement mankind has ever seen.
Andrzej Bargiel (Poland) doesn't get enough credit for it.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Finally, something to do with skiing
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Messner Traverse looks like a killer.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Andrzej Bargiel (Poland) doesn't get enough credit for it.
The serious mountaineers don't get any credit full stop. A team just climbed a new route on Cho Oyu from the Nepali side, but people would rather talk about the Everest circus.
As the likes of nims and harilla showed, you are better making some artificial "record" and climbing the easiest routes in the worst style. Even better if you can change Sherpas half way through the project so the people carrying you to the top can't share the glory Although looks like we may soon be free of the nims drama as he's getting cancelled (2 accusations of sexual harassment from his clients).
@abc, agree this should be in apres, or perhaps off piste which tends to get some wider mountaineering discussions. But people constantly post non skiing stuff on piste section anyway.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Looks like the best way to improve off piste technique is to carry a few tins of Red Bull!
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