So Salomon's new touring binding has finally been officially announced.
Personally I can't wait for this: pin tech for uphill efficiency, proper alpine mode for going downhill. Could well be the holy grail of touring bindings (at least for those of us who can't stand the *feel* of pin bindings outside of powder, anyway)...
There appear to be elements of all sorts of bindings in the design. In particular the La Sportiva Trab TR2 toe, the heel appears to be standard Salomon (with tour mode). Not sure if the adjuster at the toe is for BSL or toe DIN setting.
Anyway looks interesting
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It should be pretty bomber as its not plastic but a forged composite mixture thats used on a lot of car parts. This is what I've been waiting for as it could mean I could have my normal boots converted for inserts and not have to use them on the way down like CAST worked.
After all it is free
After all it is free
I notice the DIN starts at 6. Is this the normal range for pin bindings? (I'd set a 6 in a pinch, but no higher.)
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Definitely interested in this but will be giving it a season or two to get any teething issues sorted (and see what comparable products the competition come up with!).
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Scarlet wrote:
I notice the DIN starts at 6. Is this the normal range for pin bindings? (I'd set a 6 in a pinch, but no higher.)
Nope.
Remember that this isn't a pin binding when in downhill mode, it's an alpine binding. In uphill mode the pins are locked on to the boot toe and your heel is free as no release is wanted as the brakes are locked up.
They'll launch 'em first for the gnarly freeride touring market so 6-13 is for that sector but then they'll do a 4-11/12 version.
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There is a good video (and a podcast on Blister), which shows that the pins are only engaged when skinning.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Some very good old fashioned mechanical engineering there - keeping the profession alive 👊. Assuming durability isn’t an issue (the vid mentioned they’ve been developing for 7 or 8 years), this could well spell the end of heavy frame bindings.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:
They'll launch 'em first for the gnarly freeride touring market so 6-13 is for that sector but then they'll do a 4-11/12 version.
Damn those gnarly freeride tourers and their big feet
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Actually the true gnarly freeriders would want this binding in a 16 din but as I understand it the design wouldn't accommodate the spring.
Agree with Mark that this is the end of frame bindings as every boot maker will now fit inserts irrespective of the sole design etc.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
By utilising the alpine style of heel, does it lead to a higher step-in pressure? Just with one of the attractions to the traditional pin binding being the low step-in pressure required.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
As expected Lou has his full analysis on Wildsnow:
By utilising the alpine style of heel, does it lead to a higher step-in pressure? Just with one of the attractions to the traditional pin binding being the low step-in pressure required.
Traditional pin bindings have the same step-in pressure as alpine style heels. It's only the Beasts that have a 4 din step-in pressure as the boot is pushing the binding rearward.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Will these need any adjustment to switch between using regular alpine boots and using touring boots? Or do you just step in regardless of the boots you are wearing, and just use the pin mechanism when you want to head uphill with touring boots?
Will these need any adjustment to switch between using regular alpine boots and using touring boots? Or do you just step in regardless of the boots you are wearing, and just use the pin mechanism when you want to head uphill with touring boots?
I'd very much doubt that they have an auto height adjusting AFD meaning that the AFD will have to be manually set to the correct height/gap for the specific boot being used - which is a screwdriver & feeler gauge/business card job and takes about 20 secs per ski. And if you were changing boot length as well then the forward pressure will need adjusting too.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@spyderjon, thanks. It was the AFD height I was curious about.
Three observations. First, looks relatively flat. I suspect delta is going to be similar to the Warden. Second, Spyderjon is right, it has an adjustable afd. Third, I suspect it is going to suck for QK inserts/any form of toe shimming. It has a five point mount pattern for the toe (like an old school Dynafit mount) with a widget going into the furthest forward of the five holes. Furthermore, the heelpiece is on a track and I suspect that will obscure the mounting screws.
I am a sucker for things like this. I'm still going to buy it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Quote:
If you have gripwalk soles you need to wait for Marker to catch up I guess?
No, it is gripwalk compatible. Cody Townsend is doing an AMA on TGR and that came up.
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Whilst I think it looks great...
gorilla wrote:
Three observations. First, looks relatively flat. I suspect delta is going to be similar to the Warden. Second, Spyderjon is right, it has an adjustable afd. Third, I suspect it is going to suck for QK inserts/any form of toe shimming.
4. That toe is absolutely massive!!!
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gorilla wrote:
Third, I suspect it is going to suck for QK inserts/any form of toe shimming. It has a five point mount pattern for the toe (like an old school Dynafit mount) with a widget going into the furthest forward of the five holes. Furthermore, the heelpiece is on a track and I suspect that will obscure the mounting screws.
Wonder why none of the tech binding players offer a solution where the binding is mounted on tracks, and you can buy extra tracks to mount on other skis. Then you only need to slide on the toe and heel piece. My Beasts from Spyderjon are a test model with a very well engineered steel rail for the toe piece. Sure it adds a little weight, but seems like this would have the advantages of QK and more adjustment for different BSL.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
gorilla wrote:
......I suspect it is going to suck for QK inserts/any form of toe shimming. It has a five point mount pattern for the toe (like an old school Dynafit mount) with a widget going into the furthest forward of the five holes. Furthermore, the heelpiece is on a track and I suspect that will obscure the mounting screws.......
No problem toe shimming it or mounting it with inserts.
The toe stud is really no different to Z series so not a problem. Yes, it'd be quicker to remove/re-install the binding if all the holes were visible but the heel is no different to a Kingpin/Squire/Griffon/Jester/STH2/Warden etc.
This is going to be a £550-£600 binding so inserts are going to be a must for sharing it across other skis as you don't want to be having to buy two or more pairs!
Themasterpiece wrote:
.....Wonder why none of the tech binding players offer a solution where the binding is mounted on tracks......
Weight is key in this market.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Looks great! When will it be released?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BobinCH wrote:
Looks great! When will it be released?
General release Autumn 2018. Suspect a limited number to be available over this season - which is what Marker did with the Kingpin. It's a good plan and allows for far more beta testing on actual production parts etc prior to the full launch. It's also good for drumming up business as they'll be wanting firm orders from retailers by the end of January for delivery in the Autumn.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
spyderjon wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Looks great! When will it be released?
General release Autumn 2018. Suspect a limited number to be available over this season - which is what Marker did with the Kingpin. It's a good plan and allows for far more beta testing on actual production parts etc prior to the full launch. It's also good for drumming up business as they'll be wanting firm orders from retailers by the end of January for delivery in the Autumn.
Excellent. If you get some pls let me know!
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Poster: A snowHead
I don't tour and even I want a pair!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
It even has a "Transformer" button!
That's sold it for me.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
That’ll do the job. But an OEM design would give thought to the access to the bolts etc. The test mounting on the Beasts means no bolts actually, the toe just slides on and and there is a little lever that locks it on the rail.
Oh well maybe I bought my Diamir Fritschi Tecton's too early but I can say after nigh on ten outings on them (inc three tours) that I'm very happy and my OH says that they are a game changer, in that she's straight into them sans fiddle.
I've skied hard and fast on groomers (Blue MTN Lab boots) and hard snow as well as knee knee / boot deep powder and they performed really well, or was it the ski ???
The Salomon certainly does look like a sweet piece of engineering and I suspect will take the market from the Tecton / Beasts / KingPins even though the Tecton is an impressive 680gms though I have them mounted on Black Crows Atris as for me these bindings and skis are for more of a slack country setup as opposed to all out touring.
They will become very popular I suspect just judging by this thread: I just hope the end consumers realise that they should buy skins as well
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Fugly binding though, looks like it was designed by someone at Fisher-Price.......
After all it is free
After all it is free
The Shift is really aimed at the Beast/Kingpin market (what's known as the 'freeride touring' sector) were the name of the game is to access lines to be skied (aggressively) on the new generation of lightweight big skis (well light for their size anyway) driven by performance tech boots. I think it'll also put a big dent in the CAST market as well.
I'd say that the Tectons market is far more the true touring market but with additional versatility to allow use as an everyday binding so its competitors are really the Rad 2/Rotation & the G3 Ion. Even if the Tecton proves to be reasonably bomber (unlike the Vipec) its limited elasticity is a turn off to the huckers.
After that there's the true weight weenie market with their 150g-350g toe/heel combos but with removed functionality, ie fixed vertical release values etc.
@Weathercam, I'd be intersted to hear how the heel lugs of your Mtn Lab boots are holding up to the alpine heel clamping from the Tecton as the Kingpin heel really does chew them up quite quickly?
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spyderjon wrote:
The Shift is really aimed at the Beast/Kingpin market (what's known as the 'freeride touring' sector) were the name of the game is to access lines to be skied (aggressively) on the new generation of lightweight big skis (well light for their size anyway) driven by performance tech boots. I think it'll also put a big dent in the CAST market as well.
I'd say that the Tectons market is far more the true touring market but with additional versatility to allow use as an everyday binding so its competitors are really the Rad 2/Rotation & the G3 Ion. Even if the Tecton proves to be reasonably bomber (unlike the Vipec) its limited elasticity is a turn off to the huckers.
After that there's the true weight weenie market with their 150g-350g toe/heel combos but with removed functionality, ie fixed vertical release values etc.
+1 to all of that, though I imagine it's also likely to spell the end of the frame touring binding too
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clarky999 wrote:
spyderjon wrote:
The Shift is really aimed at the Beast/Kingpin market (what's known as the 'freeride touring' sector) were the name of the game is to access lines to be skied (aggressively) on the new generation of lightweight big skis (well light for their size anyway) driven by performance tech boots. I think it'll also put a big dent in the CAST market as well.
I'd say that the Tectons market is far more the true touring market but with additional versatility to allow use as an everyday binding so its competitors are really the Rad 2/Rotation & the G3 Ion. Even if the Tecton proves to be reasonably bomber (unlike the Vipec) its limited elasticity is a turn off to the huckers.
After that there's the true weight weenie market with their 150g-350g toe/heel combos but with removed functionality, ie fixed vertical release values etc.
+1 to all of that, though I imagine it's also likely to spell the end of the frame touring binding too
.
I think the frame bindings, particularly the Marker Tours, will still have a place as an entry level touring binding and with the rental shops as they don't require tech inserts - at least for a few years until the majority of boots will come with tech inserts.
And a frame binding is gonna be half the price of a Shift.
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