 Poster: A snowHead
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Following on from the thread When do you draw the line at skiing (off-piste) shitty snow?.
Today I was ski-touring with some Swedes I know, and one of them had his son with us, and I was told he skis rather well, having done 4 years at the Swedish Race Academy.
And feck me, best skier I've ever skied with, he just ripped the lines we skied, and when it came to questionable snow-pack he skied it just the same as if he was GS racing, was great to watch, and the guide with us (a LG Scandi) was equally impressed at his skills.
And his Dad was not too bad on the down either!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Weathercam, … nice
A contrast to:
- I need to upgrade my boots to improve my skiing…which model?
- what of this year’s skis do I need?
- will different socks transform my skiing?
- etc
- etc
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did he have his pole straps on?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| Did he have his pole straps on? |
No backpack, that's the secret.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I was going to say "youth", but its more than that. I occasionally ski with a 60-ish woman with a few WC points to her name. Last time, in April, the snow was variable as was the vis. She crushed it effortlessly. It was her first time on the hill all season. Some folks just have another gear. A joy to watch.
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@Weathercam, In a "normal week" we're maxed out in Ski School Sun-Wed. For the last month of warmer Spring like conditions we've been getting demand for lessons through Thursday and Friday. Most of the late comers finally admitting that they can't ski anything but groomed pistes. It is then very noticeable that above the thaw line, they are comfortable, but as soon as the snow becomes variable they go to pot. Amazing how many Advanced skiers I've had back in class this month. 
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| RedandWhiteFlachau wrote: |
| @Weathercam, In a "normal week" we're maxed out in Ski School Sun-Wed. For the last month of warmer Spring like conditions we've been getting demand for lessons through Thursday and Friday. Most of the late comers finally admitting that they can't ski anything but groomed pistes. It is then very noticeable that above the thaw line, they are comfortable, but as soon as the snow becomes variable they go to pot. Amazing how many Advanced skiers I've had back in class this month. |
I don't really understand this - decent technique will get you through all sorts of conditions (even if some tactics/experience can make it easier). Surely advanced skiers have a robust enough technique to ski variable snow even if they resort to GS like turns with a positive two footed extend unweight to edge change? It's not that tricky?
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@jedster, I was being ironic. But probably linked to the wider debate on, "is skiing more dangerous these days?"
You are correct, decent technique will get you through most things. It is not difficult, just different. But what I've observed in the last 10 years or so, is that it is easier with modern skis to ski fast and reasonably well on groomed pistes where technique may not be all that important. But, as soon as the conditions are different, self-identified "Advanced skiers" fall apart.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@jedster, are you talking piste or off-piste as it's a totally different ball-game off-piste as to what you'll encounter, today I had to do a couple of downhill kick-turns as I just wasn't confident to turn in the snow pack I found myself in, and I'll try and ski anything!
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| @jedster, are you talking piste or off-piste as it's a totally different ball-game off-piste as to what you'll encounter, today I had to do a couple of downhill kick-turns as I just wasn't confident to turn in the snow pack I found myself in, and I'll try and ski anything! |
I was talking about offpiste really but it obviously applies to chopped up unpisted piste too.
I'm not saying you can't get offpiste conditions which are truly horrid - JUST breakable crust, rained on powder that is like setting cement, etc etc. But the description was "variable" and in even really pretty messed up snow if you a) let the skis run a bit in big arcs and b) stand up tall off both feet and c) be a bit patient to let the skis come round and d) gradually flex after you have gone through the fall line to tighten the turn and control speed. Just rinse and repeat and you will get down pretty much anything. This is simply solid normal technique (albeit being a bit more twofooted on the edge change).
All of that really requires space and if you are in tight conditions in horrible snow then you need to be able to be more dynamic to get your skis out of the muck because you won't have the speed to help. That requires more technique/tactics/experience I think.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I get the impression that the skier who so impressed @Weathercam was on a somewhat different planet - not surprising after 4 years at the Swedish Race Academy! Different level altogether. I once had an Austrian ski instructor who seemed fairly godlike to us. We skied a run which was used for a Men's downhill and stopped, after many turns, for a breather. He told us that would be where the racers took their first turn. We were all awed and asked him if he could do that. He just laughed and assured us that the gap between his skiing, and a downhill racer, was greater than the gap between us and him. That put things into perspective for me.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@jedster, well I take my hat off to you if you can ski all types of snow well, like in the image below. 
For sure most stuff you can ski/get down but invariably it's not pretty and you adapt your technique, this guy just charged it as if it were the piste.
Afterwards, the guide included we were talking about how he made it look so good, and I was probably the weakest (going down that is) skier in the group.
In the recent snow drought we've had you hardly see anyone skiing off-piste, unless they're seeking out Spring snow, for sure at altitude on the right aspects there's still cold snow to be found, but you have to earn your turns to get that, and that might well be a long approach for 200m descent.
Ironically, prior to yesterdays ski-tour I'd just about finished a feature that I've been meaning to write for a good few years, about types of snow, and what they're like to ski, or not.
All comments welcome
https://stylealtitude.com/different-types-of-snow-and-how-to-ski-them.html
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A nice illustration that the more coaching you have, the better you get, the more fun you have. It shouldn’t need saying, but it’s worth reminding ourselves of this point from time to time.
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You know it makes sense.
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That is a great article@Weathercam, I am smiling as the bulk of the snow types would deter anyone from leaving the pistes. The tourers amongst us should state that the days of good snow when expectations were low are some of the best.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Weathercam wrote: |
@jedster, well I take my hat off to you if you can ski all types of snow well, like in the image below.
For sure most stuff you can ski/get down but invariably it's not pretty and you adapt your technique, this guy just charged it as if it were the piste.
Afterwards, the guide included we were talking about how he made it look so good, and I was probably the weakest (going down that is) skier in the group.
In the recent snow drought we've had you hardly see anyone skiing off-piste, unless they're seeking out Spring snow, for sure at altitude on the right aspects there's still cold snow to be found, but you have to earn your turns to get that, and that might well be a long approach for 200m descent.
Ironically, prior to yesterdays ski-tour I'd just about finished a feature that I've been meaning to write for a good few years, about types of snow, and what they're like to ski, or not.
All comments welcome
https://stylealtitude.com/different-types-of-snow-and-how-to-ski-them.html |
In fairness hard sastrugi isn't much fun! It's not that difficult to turn on just horribly chattery and undignified. I'm not claiming I look good on it. I'd certainly not ski it fast - probably short turns with a bit more edge check to rebound/pop for edge change
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Weathercam, no sh*t sherlock 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Also like the article which is pretty comprehensive but what about CHALK?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
the more coaching you have, the better you get, the more fun you have
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I do think this is something on which people vary a lot. For me, there's a limit. I have much enjoyed the ski coaching I've done, and when I started sailing I read a lot - before I ever got into a dinghy for my first RYA "beginners" course I knew the theory, and knew what to do when the boat heeled over too much (ease the mainsheet). When I started snowboarding I profited from "visualising" (when nowhere near any snow) how the foot steering worked. BUT. It's that process of learning, and of getting my brain round things that I enjoy. I have absolutely no need to be "good at it". "Good enough" is good enough.
I'm not competitive. My husband was not interested in sailing, but was competitive. When we did our first (supposedly "friendly") race, he was brilliant, spotting all the buoys, working out where we had to go next, and doing exactly what he was told with the controls! He was thrilled when we won and looking forward to the next race (where I got the tide wrong, and we were close to last).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Origen wrote: |
| "Good enough" is good enough. |
Agreed, and I’m certainly not making the point that the only way to enjoy skiing is to permanently be pursuing improvement. I’d argue against that proposition. But generally speaking I think the better you get the more the fun you’re going to have, especially when conditions get complicated. That’s been my experience.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I think the better you get the more the fun you’re going to have, especially when conditions get complicated
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Yes, I'd absolutely agree with that. And one important thing, in any endeavour, is to know when to give up! That's particularly important when, in skiing and sailing, there is a danger to yourself and others. I do think it's hard to get that right - to be prudent without being a wimp. It's also the central dilemma of growing old.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Origen wrote: |
| "Good enough" is good enough. |
Agreed, and I’m certainly not making the point that the only way to enjoy skiing is to permanently be pursuing improvement. I’d argue against that proposition. But generally speaking I think the better you get the more the fun you’re going to have, especially when conditions get complicated. That’s been my experience. |
Me too I think but it's tricky when you reach a new level you sometimes can't really understand how you used to enjoy it so much at a lower level. But you really did!
I've also found that I get increasingly dissatisfied when I'm not skiing as well as I'd like. I really don't like the feeling of skidding on hard pistes anymore but nor am I prepared to ski out of control (point further down the fall line to duck the issue). So I try to commit to carving and get a bit grumpy with myself if the hardness/steepness shows me up! Didn't used to worry about such things
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(yes I do pragmatically adjust by using shorter more pivoted turns and farming what's left of the fluff at the edge of the piste but that feels a bit like cheating)
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@rob@rar,
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generally speaking I think the better you get the more the fun you’re going to have, especially when conditions get complicated. That’s been my experience.
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and also the experience of at least some - I venture to say most - who have been lucky enough to benefit from your tuition. Like Origen, I am not competitive, in that I'm not interested in winning anything (though beating The Executive... in a little speed test recently was rather sweet) but I am keen to do the best I can, and I hate other people being inconvenienced by my lack of competence and/or speed. So, for my own fun, to keep pain and exhaustion to a minimum and to try and achieve my own best, I take lessons. But not everyone thinks the same. So be it (as long as they don't endanger others).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I saw this thread title in the headlines so clicked on it to see what was being said because this is something I've been thinking for a while - but not just off piste and certainly not at the level of most skiers commenting. This could easily be a thread in the piste section.
Where I am it's not been the best season. One villages has only had one blue run and some very gentle greens open this season. Everything open else has been reds or blacks. The blue is therefore very busy and sees sun for most of the day. It gets in a bit of a state quite quickly. On one of the holiday FB groups for Andorra there's daily questions asking how to get the bus to other areas because people are getting bored skiing the same run all day every day and can't/won't ski the pistes open that do connect to the other areas. There's other people who are completely panning the place because they're not capable of skiing perfectly good pistes that are open.
My first response is to say to anyone to get lessons. I've had all sorts of responses...
*It's not me, it's the conditions. February isn't normally like this.
*I've had lessons and can ski perfectly fine.
*I learnt in the UK. I don't need to here.
*Group lessons will be too fast for me and I don't want to ski fast.
What people spend their money on is up to them. I just can't understand why anyone would spend €300 on a six day pass (and all other ski holiday costs) to just have confidence to just ski blue runs and then not even consider improving to be able to deal with all manner of conditions/gradients a mountain might throw at them. The red and black runs here, on the whole, aren't particularly challenging in 95% of conditions anyway.
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| hammerite wrote: |
My first response is to say to anyone to get lessons. I've had all sorts of responses...
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Never be too arrogant or proud to take a lesson!
I can get around the hill ok (level 9+ on that Inside Out scale thing) but I ended up with an hour with an ESF instructor a couple of weeks ago. It was bloody brilliant and I was absolutely knackered at the end of it but learnt a lot.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't think failure to take lessons is generally due to arrogance or pride. Though it might be a result of self-consciousness, or a lack of self-confidence - which are different matters.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
if I haven't done 4 years with the Swedish Race Academy or equivalent I am "bad skier"?
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You're a worse skier than someone who has.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Weathercam, As nobody else asked,  Was he wearing a helmet?!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Interesting debate. I've been skiing for 60 odd years, having learned in Scotland in the days of leather boots, rattrap bindings and 210 cm skis. I still take a lesson every couple of years, just to keep up with latest techniques, and find it helpful to have my bad practice explained. Getting on in years, I am looking to ski as lazily and effortlessly as possible, but I do enjoy spring snow. Takes me back to Glenshee in late April !
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Poster: A snowHead
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Grats to the OP.
You win the "state the obvious" award for the 2023-24 season
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A private lesson here or there, especially at the start of the holiday, really helps. Acting a refresher, and the instructor usually advises with a couple of take away points to utilise the rest of the trip. I’m a listener, I love that.
Ski coaching courses imho are great. Ali Ross and later Phil Smith really brought on my skiing, forever greatful. I’m thinking of doing a Warren Smith course next winter.
You’re never too old to learn.
I have slowed, probably a combination of self preservation and not having the power of a 37 year old. I used to ski big vertical distances on empty red runs in a couple of minutes, before helmets were ubiquitous …. looking back, not the wisest move.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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What are people thinking? They can remotely resemble the proficiency of a professional skier? 
It’s always a good idea to get more instructions. We can all get better, from whatever level we are. But I don’t for a minute have any illusions those few (or not so few) lesson is going to get me anywhere near that of the pros.
For one thing, you need to start young. If you missed that cutoff, you can only be “so so” good.
Be happy to be able to get around the mountain in control. And with some grace, if you’re lucky AND work diligently.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
| What are people thinking? They can remotely resemble the proficiency of a professional skier? ... |
Oh go on then, I'll take a poke.
It depends what you mean.
Let's say you're in a helicopter. Your speed is limited by the speed of the machine; it's not a race; there are no judges. In that circumstance, it's common to have professional skiers (and I don't mean teachers) mixed with amateurs. Those groups work perfectly well; the amateurs indeed resemble the professionals. It's simply necessary to have a group with matched levels of proficiency. Note that this is not the same as saying an amateur can beat a gold medal winner in their discipline, which is obviously nonsense. The difference is pretty clear I think, you're confusing different things.
An analogy would be that if an Olympic walker and an ordinary walker walk up Pendle Hill, they will obviously resemble each other. Walking up Pendle Hill isn't an Olympic event, so that level of proficiency isn't required, and isn't on display.
So I think you're wrong.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There is bad-snow, and speed is your friend in it. But when you fall, you pay for it.
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FAQ
