I guess it would be more accurate to ask if they deteriorate significantly as I'm sure anything would begin to degrade given enough time. Basically just wondering if there's any need to worry about reusing bindings off an old set of skis. They're Look PX12s that I bought second hand in 2009 so a fair while ago. I never wound off the dins after a mate borrowed them a few years back but I have a vague recollection of discussions on here that said that doesn't actually really matter. Any reason to be worried or are they good to go?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@el nombre, Manufacturers place a guarantee on ski equipment for a reason. So you are correct, they will degrade with time even with regular servicing. The issue is whether they fail over time, or you have a catastrophic failure. The latter obviously carries greater risk of injury. In all my years of skiing I have seen very few instances of a catastrophic binding failure causing injury, they usually just snap and the skier falls over. So unless you're doing Mach 1 or trying to make a life saving turn you'll probably be ok.
The other thing to look at is if they are compatible with your boot. If you have Grip Walk soles they may not be. That potentially means your GW boot won't release when its supposed to.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@el nombre, plastics degrade when exposed to UV (or other) radiation. Plastics and metals fatigue under cyclical loading. Hard to see why either would degrade in a cupboard. In an attic the changes in temperature and humidity would be likely to negatively affect the wood and base materials in skis but hard to see why that would affect metals and plastics. Plenty of cars and aeroplanes older than that still in use. Always happy to learn if there is some factor that I have overlooked
@el nombre, I'm seeing a lot more failures now on bindings of that era as the plastics degrade with age - and the PX12 has an all plastic toe. Personally I won't use a binding or boots that are over 10 years ago.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Second hand bought in 2009 might be 20 years old, I have reasons to believe most folks would prefer to discard them.
You can always check them and their Din setting in a proper Wintersteiger machine, I verified a 6 years old set in Lech and eagerly modified the din factor according to that test.
See http://youtube.com/v/vfXwyxMLxSQ.
But the real question is whether you are OK with putting your knees, ribs, arms, teeth and nose integrity in harm's way with a set that old ?(to mention just the easy complications that might arise from an early release while fast descending on a crowded piste for instance)
What would you do if we were talking about a car braking system?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@spyderjon, Always sound advice. In our ski shop we won't rent equipment or adjust bindings for folks who want to ski in boots, or with gear, that is over 10 years old. Not worth the risk in liability terms.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Sent PM
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Are there not binding indemnification lists for this?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@RedandWhiteFlachau, how can you tell? Isn't 10 years a bit arbitrary? My Blizzards (and associated Marker Squires) are now iirc 8 years old and still have life left in them...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I have a pair of rossi scratch single pivots that age, well maintained and lubricated and use them without problems. I can understand why shops don't want to deal with older equipment but one can hurt themselves just as easily on new equipment. Who needs gripwalk
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@under a new name, By the make and model. My Rossi piste skis are around the same age and get a huge amount of use. Despite frequent servicing and maintenance I can tell that the ski doesn't perform as well as it used to and the bindings are definitely wearing. I'll try them out next week but I suspect an early Christmas present is on the cards.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@under a new name, no one has any science to back up the 10 years rule. For shops not working on unindemnified bindings is sensible as it eliminates the possibility that they could be sued should something go wrong with the binding. To bin otherwise fine bindings after 10 years for regular punters though is nonsense. The more that they are used the more any plastics will degrade (exposure to UV, moisture and cyclical loading) and the springs may relax/creep (but upping the DIN reading compensates for this) whereas there should only be tiny changes during the periods that they are stored in a dark, dry environment. If you're using the DIN setting in the middle of the range then the binding could significantly weaken without major concern as it would be designed to withstand forces corresponding to a higher DIN setting. If a binding did break it would likely do so in a crash where the binding releasing could have been expected anyway and hence the injury the the skier receives will be much the same but they will only have 1 ski working afterwards, annoying but not a major safety concern.
For those skiing in no fall zones with their DINs on the max setting, those touring in remote regions and those who ski for pretty much the full winter it probably is worth periodically replacing otherwise fine gear, for holiday skiers though I just can't see the cost-risk reduction calculation making sense to do so.
Both sets of bindings that I use are now over 10 years old and of all the skiing related safety concerns, the bindings randomly failing is pretty near the bottom for me
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I routinely leave my skis in storage outside of the ski season, never unwind the bindings and (so far, touch wood) in 35+ years and multiples sets of skis and bindings have never had a binding fail. I have come across the practice above of shops not being prepared to adjust old bindings (usually when lending an old pair of mine to a tightarse mate with different sized boots). Then I end up doing it myself at the base of the lift - again, the failure rate so far is zero.
So whilst I am happy to accept that there is a chance that an old binding which is left tight year round may fail, either slowly or suddenly, the limited sample of evidence I have tells me that the chance is small. I have done plenty of harm to myself over the years due to poor decision making, inattentiveness, and not seeing surprising large pieces of avalanche debris in low light. Bindings failure sits down my personal list of things to worry about whilst skiing.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
If I have equipment that’s over 10 years but still functioning normally, I’d continue to use it. But I wouldn’t remount binding that are over 15 year old on skis I expect to use for another 5!
The 10 year rule is a bit arbitrary. But when it’s pushing 20 years, I think my body part is worth more.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In Germany, most shops (or maybe all?) don’t want to perform binding checks and adjustments if the bindings or ski boots are over seven years old. They claim that the German Ski Association doesn’t allow them to do so. Specifically, they will make the adjustments, but they won’t provide a receipt with the necessary data for the insurance (in case of accident). This is a major issue for kids' equipment because I can’t buy new boots and skis for them every year, so I have to check the production year if I buy anything second-hand. A pain in the ***h
Interestingly, while shops cite the German Ski Association’s regulations, at second-hand markets organized in October/November by ski teams associated with the German Ski Association, you can buy even older equipment—and they’ll make the necessary adjustments on-site before you leave. For the same equipment, however, a shop won’t perform the adjustment because of the German Ski Association’s regulations
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@rambotion, those were pretty much the points I was thinking of.
@greg66, ha ha I had the aforementioned Squires fail on the 3rd chairlift of use and of course, at the top. Replacements no problems.
@turms2, a bit irritating. Here in France, I don't see thee same issues
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
turms2 wrote:
... This is a major issue for kids' equipment because I can’t buy new boots and skis for them every year, so I have to check the production year if I buy anything second-hand. A pain in the ***h...
I suppose it could be a pain in the leg if old gear resulted in a breakage there?
The term "indemnified" seems to mean that the manufacturer assumes liability, not that the thing is unsafe, although there may be a connexion between those two things. So it's an increase in your legal exposure, even if there's zero degradation. It might be a pain in the wallet, if a failure here causes injury to you or - worse financially - a litigious third party living in an expensive place.
In Germany, most shops (or maybe all?) don’t want to perform binding checks and adjustments if the bindings or ski boots are over seven years old. They claim that the German Ski Association doesn’t allow them to do so. Specifically, they will make the adjustments, but they won’t provide a receipt with the necessary data for the insurance (in case of accident). This is a major issue for kids' equipment because I can’t buy new boots and skis for them every year, so I have to check the production year if I buy anything second-hand. A pain in the ***h
Interestingly, while shops cite the German Ski Association’s regulations, at second-hand markets organized in October/November by ski teams associated with the German Ski Association, you can buy even older equipment—and they’ll make the necessary adjustments on-site before you leave. For the same equipment, however, a shop won’t perform the adjustment because of the German Ski Association’s regulations
What's the problem with older gear? You can get it checked, so fine. Do you plan to sue anyone? That wouldn't work in Germany anyway.
Fun fact about the ski associations is that all those guys unpack their decades old downhill equipment when they plan to go really fast - like Weißer Rausch etc.
All this talk about the necessity of getting new stuff all the time is just a way to make quick buck. And pile on landfill. I got Salomon 997 Carbons (same as STH2) on my powder skis. '94 model. Work just fine.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It is interesting reading this thread and also thinking about the EU directive on the repair of goods. Member States have to transpose it into national rules and apply it from 31 July 2026. It may therefore be illegal to ban the fitting and use of perfectly servicable bindings purely based upon their age.
Are there not binding indemnification lists for this?
Just an American insurance scam, not part of anything in EU.
Personally most higher end bindings are fine 30+ years old if they haven't been left our in the sun. Lower end ones, depends on what they are made out of.
If I am about to ski on an unknown older pair of skis, say swapping over with a buddie between each others relics. I will give the bindings a swift hard kick to see if they are solid. Followed by making sure I can stomp out of them to check release values. Yes this has ended with bits of binding going flying, but better than it happening further down the hill at 50 mph
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
On 2 holidays earlier this year I saw two people with broken boots (one the heel snapped off and other the toe cap snapped). I know you are talking about bindings rather than boots but they are both a plastic. The boots were both 20 odd years old.
Unbelievably the person with the broken heel mentioned about taking them into Timpsons to see if they could fix it. Some people need to have their kit confiscated.
After all it is free
After all it is free
king key wrote:
On 2 holidays earlier this year I saw two people with broken boots (one the heel snapped off and other the toe cap snapped). I know you are talking about bindings rather than boots but they are both a plastic. The boots were both 20 odd years old.
Unbelievably the person with the broken heel mentioned about taking them into Timpsons to see if they could fix it. Some people need to have their kit confiscated.
Quite a few boots made over the years wer made out of plastic that fell aprt in short order, San Marco and Nordica spring to mind. Whilst others of a similar vintage would still be perfectly skiable today if the liners were in tack or replaced - Early 80's Salamons were made out of strange indistructable stuff.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
My Rossi piste skis are around the same age and get a huge amount of use. Despite frequent servicing and maintenance I can tell that the ski doesn't perform as well as it used to and the bindings are definitely wearing. I'll try them out next week but I suspect an early Christmas present is on the cards.
and of course, at the top. Replacements no problems.
