Best "first" black run

A snowHead

Hi all,
family and I are heading to Val Thorens in a couple of weeks - unimaginably excited, even after twenty years of skiing. Part of what I love about it - it just never gets old - but I digress!

Wife and I have >20 weeks under our belts, but the kids are no longer so small. Younger one (12) has skied 6 weeks in total and is pretty much parallel all the time. She's reached a weird place where she's simultaneously quite brave and quite scared at the same time. The older one (14) has skiied 8 weeks, including a week with school last year where she tackled her first black run in Italy.

Both are booked in for private lessons on 3 of our days to really bring their skills on as best we can, but both want to get to the point of being 100% comfortable on (good condition) red runs this holiday, with the older wanting to branch out into being happy enough to take on a black - a watershed moment we've all been through. Please rest assured - before anyone posts the normal - "well, I'd get an instructor to take her" or "you shouldn't be taking them on blacks" that we absolutely will be talking with their instructor to take advice as well BEFORE we attempt a black with either of them.

I'm very conscious that perhaps Italian black runs are not quite the same mustard as those found in the French or Austrian resorts and so I'm looking for some advice as to the "kinder" black runs available in Val Thorens and the wider three valleys, so that I don't end up mistakenly starting her on the French equivalent of Harakiri or the Streiff!

Any recommendations or relative easiness recommendations for the blacks in this part of the world please?
Thanks
Rob

A snowHead

If I remember correctly, the Arolles black underneath the Moutiere lift is short enough to be not too intimidating and if you get it early in the morning, you can sometimes get it before anyone else. It comes back out onto a blue and back down to the Moutiere chair, and because the chair goes over it, you can make sure it doesn't look iffy first, or lap it a couple of times if it's good.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Perhaps Goitschel, coming back into the top of VT from the Meribel valley? Can get quite crowded at times, but also not too long and in the sun so not usually icy.

Surely the simplest approach is for either you or your wife to check out a particular run on the day, in advance? Black runs can vary significantly from day to day, depending on weather conditions and whether groomed or not.

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Goitschel has a reputation for being kind especially when in good condition. If I recall, it is cut in two by the red run, the top part being steeper and mogulled and the bottom flat - or at least that was the case when I was last on it. You can view it all as you go up in the chairlift.

There's been a previous chat about this topic here https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=148293

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The difficulty of all pistes, particularly black pistes varies a lot depending on conditions. If the piste was bashed (rarely done for blacks) and has a few cm of soft snow on it then it can be straightforward for any skier. If it has chopped of moguls (the usual condition for black pistes) it can be hard work for many. My suggestion is to explore the first few days then take your children down the most enjoyable.

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I’m pretty sure I did Goitschel but the very top section was huge icy moguls so I joined it at first intersection (and tbh it wasn’t really a proper French black other than that bit, although I’m used to PDS)!

In Meribel, Instructor took my little daughter in her red run type group down Face under Olympic chair, as snow was decent. Écureuil under Tougnete was also OK.

In Courchevel, Suisses was fine, M much harder (as unpisted ) so I didn’t do it.

Agree with the advice about ”on the day”, really depends on the snow at the time.

After all it is free

Cascades comes off a green and finishes on a blue, it’s short and not steep, just bumpy. The chair of the same name goes over it so you can check it out first. My kids did that as their first (and only so far!) black. Even I was ok on it, and I hate blacks.

Just ask the instructor what they recommend. They probably have a better more up to date idea than some random people on the internet. The instructor might even take them down it themselves which seems preferable for a first time.

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To echo @ecureuil, @motyl, @abricotine, Goitschel is a great option. You can check out the conditions as you go directly over it in the chairlift. Late morning is a great time as any ice should have softened and before the afternoon softens it out too much. You also have a red run which intertwines it, so you can always bail out at any point. Just avoid the top part of it as it can be a mogul field and just pick it up slightly lower down the slope.

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@clanger32,
Largely depends on aspect of slope and time of day, and how busy it will be. Weekends, especially Saturday, and lunchtimes will be quieter.
Just go by instructor's recommendations.

You can see plenty of runs from the lifts going up, so you often have the opportunity to make a decision before going down. In fact we often change plans if we see a particularly nice and uncrowded piste. TBH if a black has been groomed, and plenty are in the 3Vs, then this is the time to ski them.

You know it makes sense.

The other good things about Goitschel:
It is quite short, wide, has a very gentle run out, and is straight with no danger apart from other skiers

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

If right after new snow then Cascades makes sense - it's short, just outside the resort, and there's a red not far to escape to if you're fed up.

Granted, that also means it's very quickly very mogully. But maybe it gets bashed more often too (unlike, say... the Swiss Wall in Portes du Soleil)?

Then there's the black that gets to Folie Douce, from memory even at end of day it's enjoyable - plus by then you're aiming for the bar.

A snowHead

A snowHead

Ah, that explains it.

I remember thinking "No thanks - I value my knees above looking cool", and being quite happy it's a short one (so I could veer off and catch up with our boy at the bottom).

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think the bottom half of Goitschel is by far the easiest, it's only about 200m and is the black run I used to offer guests as an option in to VT when I ski hosted. Pretty sure it gets pisted daily (the top half doesn't) and is the only black that does.

I think both Cascades and Arolles are tough runs unless you're a competent bump skier; if you're lucky enough to find them pisted then fine but it wouldn't be my choice of a first experience for someone.

If the kids can cope with the trickier parts of Col de l'Audzin off the Cime Caron, they can almost certainly ski Cristaux without any issue too and you can stand at the top before making a decision.

Rocher Noir in Les M is pretty benign but I have had frozen ice gravel on it once; that was an interesting experience.

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I would try the long red down to the Orelle gondola (Mauriennaise?) first. The crux pitch of this is as steep as many blacks, but wide and pisted. It has the advantage that from the top of it, you can take a look-see and if the answer is no, a blue circumvents it on the right.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@Je suis un Skieur, merci going to try that one myself as I am a fan of col de l’audzin; it was a particular favourite last year with fresh snow!

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Once the sun gets into it in warm weather, it softens quickly. Faces right into it.

After all it is free

@DidierCouch, I suspect this is more about them being able to say the kids have got down a black run and the associated feeling of achievement than it is finding a good condition steep run. But I do agree that probably isn't the best idea unless conditions are optimal and would be looking at sticking to groomed reds myself otherwise.

Bottom half of Goitschel is lovely - top half not so much, I’ve only ever seen it covered in moguls, but it’s very obvious, and looks the part, so you won’t mistakenly head off down it.

Having said that, I think you’ve answered your own question in your post - the instructors will advise what’s right for them (and will likely have taken them down said runs, and at least know the conditions inside out).

Also, don’t under-estimate their abilities at that age and the pace they will come on - I remember two terrifying hours in Les Arcs when I joined my 14 year old son (with probably 6 or so weeks under his belt) for his lesson when his sister was ill. Cue hanging on for dear life as he and esf ‘just follow me’ instructor tore down a very bumped-up Robert Blanc and related runs, with a quick hop down Claire Blanc on the way home to wrap things up.

Mauriennaise is a good shout for a red too - personally I usually skip the very last pitch if I’m with someone nervous, as it’s always bumped up after about 11, but rest is reliably lovely.

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Just to repeat the wise words above that Arolles and Cascades are *in no way* easy black runs, for all that some posters have recommended them. They’re seldom pisted and accumulate moguls of considerable size. In the wrong conditions these can be a significant challenge. The top half of Gotschiel is inclined to be even worse.

Écureuil above Meribel was my first-ever black and was fine. But I haven’t been down it since and that’s a fair few years ago!

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Thank you all for the extremely informative comments. Some great options and certainly I will endeavour to have a good scout around for "best option on the day".

I guess, conversationally, there's a couple of points that habe been brought up here that I would like to talk on. Firstly, as @legend. says, there is/was definitely a great deal of pre-ski excitement in my original question. I'm not sure if it's a blessing or a curse, but I get unbelievably giddy when ski time is just round the corner - and this year our trip has kind of done a bit of a Monty Python "knights storming the castle" - i.e. it's been ages away, ages away, ages away - it's in two weeks!

The other part of the conversation I wanted to bring up is that all of us have to do a first black at some point. I mean, obviously you don't HAVE to - I'm sure there's a good number of people that have never and do never want to do a black. But I for one will never forget that feeling of "I can now get anywhere in the resort". I suspect most of you know exactly that same feeling. The name of the game is absolutely to get - in this case my kids - but "whomever" to that point, without putting the fear of god into them. I've skied the Streiff two weeks after race day and whilst I survived, had it been my first rodeo, then I'm not sure I'd ever have done another. I've also binned it on Face du Bellevarde in Val D'Isere and really shaken myself up having done much of the piste on my head - THAT is what I'm really trying to avoid. Falling over and then getting up and going again is part of the learning curve, but you don't want to scare them so much that they want to quit or retreat to greens only. For reference one of my [elder] daughters school friends tragically died last year whilst skiing, so she is already nervous. *She* wants to push herself, *she* wants to do blacks (I have no desire to push either of them beyond what they want to do - I'm not a French parent!) but she now knows exactly how dangerous it can be - hence trying to get information on the likely candidates (although I do admit I'd rather do any harder black in good condition, than an "easier" one in bad...)

Obviously we will go off what their instructor says and the overall aim for the week is to consolidate "comfort" on reds, but maybe open the door to blacks. It is inevitable that skiing between lessons, we're going to be asked about this - so it's just about trying to avoid putting them into a stressful position.
thanks all

@clanger32,
Difficult one. On the one hand you certainly don't want to push her into anything to tricky on this trip on the other hand you don't want it to grow into a fear thing for future trips.
I can't remember many of the individual runs in the 3v.
However is there any benefit to finding a black run that has been come heavily softened by the sun.
These runs can remain technically challenging however the actual danger is considerably lessened as the soft snow means falls are not long and fast one's but short and wet.

You know it makes sense.

The easiest way by far to do a first black run is to just pick one that you can enter half way down after the tricky/steep/technical section. That's why so many people have recommended Goitschel because the bottom half is purple at best, only the top section is dark black.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Our kids first black was with their private instructor. He knows the best runs given the conditions and time of day, just mention that t to him/her, pretty sure they will be more helpful than the anxious parents I’ve seen in the past couple of days. Once they get the first one under the belt they’ll have it cracked.

Help!!

Best "first" black run

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